Argonauts Co-Owner Speaks Out about Move to BMO

[Sonny Cheeba]

So why did they pull out of not one but two stadiums?

I am sure they knew BMO Field plans were proceeding forward, why didn't they step in at that time? Why after the stadium has existed for 18 months do they now start sending out feelers for pushing their way in?

This whole issue is giving me a headache.

yeah i said that in my first post. but with a few f-bombs in there.

[reggie]

So much for your whole "It was meant to be a Soccer-Only Stadium!" argument. Hopefully (for me, anyways) it's enough to take MLSE to court if they don't play nice with the Argos and the city.

BMO built with football in mind

DAVID NAYLOR
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
August 12, 2008 at 10:17 PM EDT

TORONTO — Toronto Argonauts co-owner Howard Sokolowski insists the notion that BMO Field was intended to be a soccer-specific stadium is incorrect.

And there appears to be evidence to back him up.

Toronto city council minutes from the fall of 2005, at which $9.8-million of city money was committed to the complex, note that the stadium proposed for the exhibition grounds was to be "capable of a conversion to a football format."

However, the 20,000-seat stadium, built initially for the FIFA U-20 World Cup soccer tournament last year, doesn't fit a regulation CFL field, making it unusable for the Argonauts as well as amateur football teams.

Now, as the Argos are in the process of surveying fan support for a potential move from the CFL team's home, the Rogers Centre, to BMO Field, there has been considerable push-back from soccer fans and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, the owner of the stadium's primary occupant, Major League Soccer's Toronto FC.

"This is not a soccer-specific stadium," Sokolowski said yesterday. "It was built for soccer, but it clearly had an understanding that it was convertible for football and to be expanded to 30,000 seats. That's what city council voted on."

Sokolowski believes Mayor David Miller is doing his best to live up to council's promise of nearly three years ago, even though the stadium would require some reconstruction to accommodate a CFL field.

"The mayor has been very helpful," Sokolowski said. "He wants to please soccer and football fans together. There's no reason they can't coexist. This isn't the Hatfields and the McCoys, but I'm not sure [MLSE president] Richard Peddie feels that way.

"The mayor has told us a number of times that if the Toronto Argonauts want to come to BMO Field, he'll do all he can within the confines of his lease agreement with MLSE."

The lease agreement gives MLSE control of all stadium revenue streams, which are then shared with the city. Though the city might back a potential Argos request to be cut into some of the revenue streams, there's no indication MLSE would accommodate such a request.

It could also be argued that a stadium that requires construction to move stands to accommodate football does not necessarily meet the definition of "capable of conversion to a football format." But a spokesman for the Toronto mayor says it does.

"What we have is a $70-million public asset that is in the shape of a stadium," Stuart Green said. "The primary occupant is the game of soccer, and what council said [in 2005] is there has to be some compatibility option [for football] there.

"It has to be an option because that was built into the approval council gave. How that happens has to be worked out."

Sokolowski said the Argos have been willing to talk about that for some time, but are being put off by Peddie.

Peddie said this week that MLSE hadn't made up its mind whether to pursue stadium expansion to meet the current demand from Toronto FC fans.

"I had a meeting with Richard Peddie three or four months ago, and he informed me that in late August there may be a time to sit down and talk about what they want to see in the stadium expansion," Sokolowski said. "Now, I understand it's not on his radar screen. I spoke to Richard last week by e-mail and it's not a priority for him right now.

"Whether we could write a cheque [for stadium expansion] or help secure funds, I'm not sure. But the Toronto Argonauts could be part of making that happen."

Yesterday, Peddie said he had talked with Sokolowski, but called the topic of discussion "premature."

"It's not cheap to expand that building," Peddie said. "It's millions and millions of dollars. We haven't nailed down cost and determined if there's a return on investment, and won't for months. It's not a matter of accommodation.

"We're just not ready."

why don't you go work on that great chant....ARGOOOOS
what a joke the argos are,jumping on the bills bandwagon so they can sell there own seasons tickets.

[nascarguy]

someone tell me this why move the southend when you can move the north end back there is only 4 rows there and the 2 group box and there could move the north end look like the south end

[Red CB Toronto]

The Argonaut had nothing to do with U of T deal dying

[GhostPK]

I love the CFL ( Go Riders) but the Argos CANNOT set foot in BMO field without wearing complete TFC red. Why take 3 steps backwards when we lead the way for pro footyball in Canada? The Argos are greedy bastards. GM Place doesnt near sell out with their 50,000 seats in Hongcouver either. As far as I know they aren't pushing their way into Swangard.

A R G
Triple Os
Can stay the fuck out of B M O

[Whoop]

I see a few people are saying that they will give up their season's if the Argos move in...

I'm telling you that's what will scare the shit out of the city or MLSE more than anything else.

Not much revenue when your building is empty...

That's the petition right there.

Get season ticket holders will to put their name on a list... hard copy... none of this online petition shit.

"If the Toronto Argonauts move into BMO Field, I will not renewal my season tickets and/or will remove my name from the waiting list."

End of story, bottom line.

If you get 12,000 signatures plus a few thousand from the waiting list, the city will shit its pants.

It's easier to fill a stadium with more football games than with pointyball games.

[GhostPK]

I see a few people are saying that they will give up their season's if the Argos move in...

I'm telling you that's what will scare the shit out of the city or MLSE more than anything else.

Not much revenue when your building is empty...

That's the petition right there.

Get season ticket holders will to put their name on a list... hard copy... none of this online petition shit.

"If the Toronto Argonauts move into BMO Field, I will not renewal my season tickets and/or will remove my name from the waiting list."

End of story, bottom line.

If you get 12,000 signatures plus a few thousand from the waiting list, the city will shit its pants.

It's easier to fill a stadium with more football games than with pointyball games.

Haha I love it. Its basically rugby with oversized pads.

[nascarguy]

I see a few people are saying that they will give up their season's if the Argos move in...

I'm telling you that's what will scare the shit out of the city or MLSE more than anything else.

Not much revenue when your building is empty...

That's the petition right there.

Get season ticket holders will to put their name on a list... hard copy... none of this online petition shit.

"If the Toronto Argonauts move into BMO Field, I will not renewal my season tickets and/or will remove my name from the waiting list."

End of story, bottom line.

If you get 12,000 signatures plus a few thousand from the waiting list, the city will shit its pants.

It's easier to fill a stadium with more football games than with pointyball games.

I will allways have my season tickets but if the cfl moves in i just will not go to the game hell i will not even watch it on tv.

[BC101]

I see a few people are saying that they will give up their season's if the Argos move in...

I'm telling you that's what will scare the shit out of the city or MLSE more than anything else.

Not much revenue when your building is empty...

That's the petition right there.

Get season ticket holders will to put their name on a list... hard copy... none of this online petition shit.

"If the Toronto Argonauts move into BMO Field, I will not renewal my season tickets and/or will remove my name from the waiting list."

End of story, bottom line.

If you get 12,000 signatures plus a few thousand from the waiting list, the city will shit its pants.

It's easier to fill a stadium with more football games than with pointyball games.

Problem is alot of the idiots who have seasons are too passive.. They dont' care as long as their part of the party.. Little realizing that the party will be gone...

[Blizzard]

someone tell me this why move the southend when you can move the north end back there is only 4 rows there and the 2 group box and there could move the north end look like the south end

They'd need to move both as they'll need to add a fill sixty feet at each end to accomodate the CFL's 20 yard end zones. They'll need to keep the stadium balanced so will have no choice but to move both. Also, if they moved only the north, the field would almost reach the Food Building so there'd be no room left for seating or anything else.

B

[Whoop]

Problem is alot of the idiots who have seasons are too passive.. They dont' care as long as their part of the party.. Little realizing that the party will be gone...

DING! DING! We have a winner.

The only way the City will listen, that MLSE will listen is....

Moving it to the other board.

[nascarguy]

Haha I love it. Its basically rugby with oversized pads.

no rugby is better..... girls wear pads!! the CFL is full of girls

[flamehawk]

Has anything ever came out of the mayor's office to substantiate his claim that the city supporters Argos moving in?

This is fucking ridicules, we really need to up the ante and show the city and Argos that Torontonians will not allow them to basically take away our football facilities.

[nascarguy]

the city will send out the some bull shit email saying that the city supports us.

[Cashcleaner]

So why did they pull out of not one but two stadiums negotiations?

I am sure they knew BMO Field plans were proceeding forward, why didn't they step in at that time? Why after the stadium has existed for 18 months do they now start sending out feelers for pushing their way in?

This whole issue is giving me a headache.

This is a very good point the pro-groundshare people are forgetting. BMO Field was, during it's preliminary stages, intended as a multi-use stadium. As development progressed, it became soccer-specific. Anyone who would object to the newer plans had plenty of time to contact the city and petition their case at that time. Now that it's all built and we've got one and a half years of use out of the facility, people are saying that they want in?

TFC+Argos4Life, please tell me if you don't find it incredibly stupid to even open this debate up when the Argonauts have had multiple chances in the past to make a move. Simple question: Why now, and why not when the York stadium deal was in the works or at least before BMO Field's current incarnation was designed and approved?

[MFG1]

I see a few people are saying that they will give up their season's if the Argos move in...

I'm telling you that's what will scare the shit out of the city or MLSE more than anything else.

Not much revenue when your building is empty...

That's the petition right there.

Get season ticket holders will to put their name on a list... hard copy... none of this online petition shit.

"If the Toronto Argonauts move into BMO Field, I will not renewal my season tickets and/or will remove my name from the waiting list."

End of story, bottom line.

If you get 12,000 signatures plus a few thousand from the waiting list, the city will shit its pants.

It's easier to fill a stadium with more football games than with pointyball games.

I would be 99.9 % in favour of giving my tickets up if this happened, but I can see anyone caring from th FO, only if they expand to accomodate the waiting list people, hmmmmmm You might be on to something here


If all STH were canvassed and convinced or believed in not renewing ST, STh still out weigh the waiting list. All I know is if this happened, It would not make my experience with TFC any better than it is right now

[London]

so mr miller


are you playing both sides on this agenda???

[MG42]

I see anything cfl in bmo field and I'm buring the fucker down to the ground or they can have bmo field and give use a new place and with one free season ticket for all the ticket holders

[Pyeddo]

This the same David Naylor that poorly runs the U of T? If so, me-thinks he should stop shilling on behalf of his friends and trying to influence situations that don't involve him...

[OneLoveOneEric]

You heard it here first, MLSE will never have any intention of footing the bill for a whole stadium on their own. The sponsorship money and corporate sales simply don't exist in MLS. It won't happen. Ever. There's a reason they had the city build this stadium in the first place.

[OneLoveOneEric]

This the same David Naylor that poorly runs the U of T? If so, me-thinks he should stop shilling on behalf of his friends and trying to influence situations that don't involve him...

Of course not. He's a university Prez, not a writer. Same name, different guy.

[denime]

If Argos move in,community will have less time for BMO use,Argos will take time that might me rented to Community ,to youth soccer clubs,TSA,OSA and so on.
I think we can push that agenda too,Federal and provincial money was invested and turf was installed because of community use,with CFL moving in,there will be less time for rent the BMO to community.

And BTW as far this whole discussion about Argos move,if someone is ok with that and don't see any problems get out from this forum and don't come back,I'm sick and tired of all this trolls trying to justifies how CFL move to BMO is not a big deal, stay the fuck away from this boards forever.There is no such a thing as democracy and free speech when it comes to supporters clubs anyway.I will be on the "ban" button from now on and ready to use it too.
So feel free to support CFL move to BMO on this boards.

[Wagner]

This is a very good point the pro-groundshare people are forgetting. BMO Field was, during it's preliminary stages, intended as a multi-use stadium. As development progressed, it became soccer-specific. Anyone who would object to the newer plans had plenty of time to contact the city and petition their case at that time. Now that it's all built and we've got one and a half years of use out of the facility, people are saying that they want in?

TFC+Argos4Life, please tell me if you don't find it incredibly stupid to even open this debate up when the Argonauts have had multiple chances in the past to make a move. Simple question: Why now, and why not when the York stadium deal was in the works or at least before BMO Field's current incarnation was designed and approved?

I think the success TFC has had has made the Argo's jealous and they want in on the action.
They don't realize that it's not the stadium that makes the experience, it's having real football fans, not pointyball fans.

[rocker]

ummmmm when tens of millions of dollars are involved. i don't think this is a problem.

and who is going to pay tens of millions of dollars?

the argos were too cheap before, so they're not going to pay that now. They can't even afford a proper practice facility. Instead they just work out of cheap portables that have been there for 10 years.

If MLSE just says "we don't have the money to pay for expansion" the issue is over. Argos won't pay, and the city won't pay.

the argo guy said:

"Whether we could write a cheque [for stadium expansion] or help secure funds, I'm not sure. But the Toronto Argonauts could be part of making that happen."

this basically says "We're too fuckin cheap to pay for expansion ourselves, but if we could ride somebody else's money, we'd be in there in a second".

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

This probably is not realistic but would it not make sense for MLSE to buy the stadium from the city? The city gets a bunch of cash they can invest in pressing issues like infrastructure and making sure hazardous sites dont go boom in the night etc. MLSE owns a valuable asset and is in control of their clubs destiny (adding more seats, real grass, reaping the spoils of the concessions).

Seems like a win win for the two parties involved and it also gets the city out of this bickering between MLSE and the Argos.

As far as the community aspect can't the city use some more of their property inventory to create another footie facility for community use? Im sure we can throw the plastic pitch into the deal.

[BuSaPuNk]

Why don't they just use Lamport Stadium?? Wasn't that designed for football anyways?

[Fort York Redcoat]

The Argonauts had nothing to do with U of T deal dying

Yes dude killed talks when he went to Berkley but The Argos were insisting on no track around the field for "atmosphere". I wonder where the Argos think they can find "atmosphere" now...effing parasites.

But wait. This does scream of a business scrambling for attention when they have the least to talk about.

Terrible record.
Bigger game coming to town.
better game down the road.

And it's true that cinnamin investing 30 mil for a headache and an eyesore (forgetting the ridiculous logistics of renovation) sounds laughable.

I feel better now...

[BuSaPuNk]

This could all end really if MLSE would get off there big chest of money and just buy the remainder of the building from the City of Toronto.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Then they'd still have to talk with the province and the feds who would have a majority investment in the place.

[Roogsy]

Let's just put the whole "why doesn't MLSE just buy the stadium" point to rest.

They can't. The city can't and won't sell anything on the Ex grounds. The only option for MLSE if they were to own TFC's stadium is to build one off the Ex grounds themselves and move the team.

So let's stop bringing this one up please.

Moving on...