TFC player 2024 in-season roster discussion

[ensco]

The Kaye deal was a "he's not doing well here" on Colorado's part but the "Bob wants him and he's not going to undermine MB" made him overvalued in what we paid.

Choiniere isn't anywhere close to being as psychologically necessary as that here.

I don't think Nancy will want him that bad to pay what we paid for Kaye But, I also think Choiniere is likely to be wanting to get back with Nancy so that's the most likely place this will end up.


I would say we are at best 3rd on the list of places Choiniere would prefer, behind Columbus & Vancouver - possibly lower if he is a Montreal fan at heart.

Every team in the league would think about this though. 25 year olds that look really good, all star caliber, but have missed their window to go to Europe, are kind of gold in the league. There are so few guys with this profile in the league

Kamal Miller price to Portland ($625K guaranteed, another $150K in conditional payments) would be less than I would expect this to cost, given that Choiniere is still improving and has a higher ceiling. Miller isn’t an MLS all star, and plays a position that teams generally don't pay up for.

Arriola's deal, $2M in GAM when he was 26, is an interesting comparable. That would be too much. Arriola had 30-40 USMNT caps at the time that deal happened.

It may not be us, Joey can’t possibly be stupid enough to trade him here, Impact fans would never forgive him… but if he goes, it's for what Kaye got or more.

[Mr. Inbetween]

As GMT indicated elsewhere, the apparent use of the quoted phrase ‘trade’ as opposed to ‘transfer’ by Choiniere’s side may be the tell; an interesting detail. Thinking any move he wants and would accept would have to be within MLS.

IIUC, the window for such a transaction is now closed until the summer? As previously stated, I would have to pass on the principle of open dissension. However, if in a situation <EDIT: of> before the matter became public knowledge, <EDIT: before> the MLS winter window closed, had a second thought on Longstaff, and given Martinez’s recent injury, I’m thinking I would have even been fine with… A No GAM, off load to on board offer, so here is Akinola, Mabika, Perruzza, and a Kerr to sweeten that deadline deal.

[jloome]

If he goes, I think it'll be for considerably less than $1M GAM, because his deal is up in 18 months and he wants to try Europe.

That would be my guess.

If he waits Montreal out and goes to free agency, the current player union deal limits his raise to 15% of his prior salary. So if he goes to another MLS club at the end of 18 months, his pay barely increases.

Montreal is probably offering barely more than that in the hope of trapping him with "security". It's a Saputo-style move.

So he can either wait and see his salary go from $250K to $280K with another MLS club, or slightly more with Montreal (the number 350K is being bandied about there) .... or he can demand a trade, then show his new club his intention is to go overseas if they don't come up the bigger raise at the end of the deal.

The trade now allows the new club to get around the 15% later, as he's not going as a free agent.

[ag futbol]

If he goes, I think it'll be for considerably less than $1M GAM, because his deal is up in 18 months and he wants to try Europe.

That would be my guess.

If he waits Montreal out and goes to free agency, the current player union deal limits his raise to 15% of his prior salary. So if he goes to another MLS club at the end of 18 months, his pay barely increases.

Montreal is probably offering barely more than that in the hope of trapping him with "security". It's a Saputo-style move.

So he can either wait and see his salary go from $250K to $280K with another MLS club, or slightly more with Montreal (the number 350K is being bandied about there) .... or he can demand a trade, then show his new club his intention is to go overseas if they don't come up the bigger raise at the end of the deal.

The trade now allows the new club to get around the 15% later, as he's not going as a free agent.

So wait, after meeting the 24 years of age and 5 years in MLS requirement his maximum raise through free agency is 15%? I thought this was exactly what the last round of negotiations were supposed to solve. Because with those sorts of constraints he’s definitely leaving for Europe. If for no other reason to get better contract terms when he returns.

I’d also suspect there’s nothing that prevents him from re-signing a richer deal while under contract with a team. So I suspect the way this plays out is: any interested club talks to his agent about what his salary requirements are and trades for him knowing what it will take to get a deal done. He gets traded and re-ups his deal. Sale price to Mtl is elevated and likely reflects this..

[JoesphNdo]

If he goes, I think it'll be for considerably less than $1M GAM, because his deal is up in 18 months and he wants to try Europe.

That would be my guess.

If he waits Montreal out and goes to free agency, the current player union deal limits his raise to 15% of his prior salary. So if he goes to another MLS club at the end of 18 months, his pay barely increases.

Montreal is probably offering barely more than that in the hope of trapping him with "security". It's a Saputo-style move.

So he can either wait and see his salary go from $250K to $280K with another MLS club, or slightly more with Montreal (the number 350K is being bandied about there) .... or he can demand a trade, then show his new club his intention is to go overseas if they don't come up the bigger raise at the end of the deal.

The trade now allows the new club to get around the 15% later, as he's not going as a free agent.

I know this rule has been known, but fuck me, every convoluted rule in MLS trades is all about wage suppression for the players who don't have enough stock to go abroad, isn't it? This, the way inter league trades work, discovery rights, the insane gam/tam rules of the salary cap make sense when you understand that's why they exist. It's absolutely brutal. Of all of them, capping your wage increase you can get after free agency is so absurdly egregious. Imagine working a job and there's a rule that, no matter what you do, if you goto another company they can't pay you more than 15% of your current salary, which you may have signed at a junior level before you proved yourself to be a star at what you do. Oh and also, there's all kinds of rules to stop two companies even getting into a bidding war over you. It's shocking.

[MikeForbes]

Wake up, babe! Roster transparency is here!

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1786051522146533503

[MikeForbes]

Of critical note - Ayo is a TAM player, not a u-22, which means Richie is designated as a full DP for the year (not a buy downable option like Oso was). Meaning, there will be no full DP brought in this summer and explains why we weren't pursuing any u-22 options this window.

[SenorDingDong]

Ayo as TAM is vomit worthy. Use that buy out before summer window please!

[leedsandTFC]

Of critical note - Ayo is a TAM player, not a u-22, which means Richie is designated as a full DP for the year (not a buy downable option like Oso was). Meaning, there will be no full DP brought in this summer and explains why we weren't pursuing any u-22 options this window.

didn't hernandez say this in his last interview (richie was a dp this season to write off his transfer fee, then open spot next year on).

i think we have u22 spots in summer though.

also, gomis on supplemental roster and longstaf + long not on tam deals. pretty shrewd business.

[MikeForbes]

didn't hernandez say this in his last interview (richie was a dp this season to write off his transfer fee, then open spot next year on).

i think we have u22 spots in summer though.

also, gomis on supplemental roster and longstaf + long not on tam deals. pretty shrewd business.

It was basically implied, but I emphasized that because of the speculation we see on here and Twitter about the DP striker in summer.

[rydermike]

Of critical note - Ayo is a TAM player, not a u-22, which means Richie is designated as a full DP for the year (not a buy downable option like Oso was). Meaning, there will be no full DP brought in this summer and explains why we weren't pursuing any u-22 options this window.

Laryea isn't listed with the ^ symbol, so he is buy-downable.

[rydermike]

Uploading here so we don't need to keep opening the link

[Yuushalinsky]

Uploading here so we don't need to keep opening the link

Seeing how many players expire in 2024, I'm starting to understand exactly what the play is for Toronto FC. There are a MASSIVE number of players on option, just waiting to clear up space for us and we have the flexibility to take the options if they're value.

[MikeForbes]

Laryea isn't listed with the ^ symbol, so he is buy-downable.

I am now confused as to why they made Ayo a TAM player then.

[Mr. Inbetween]

It was basically implied, but I emphasized that because of the speculation we see on here and Twitter about the DP striker in summer.

This is MLS… There. Is. Aways. A. Way.

[Ultra & Proud]

I am now confused as to why they made Ayo a TAM player then.

Maybe they have two U22 targets and they either fell through before our window closed or else they're on deck for July and we'll let Ayo's deal run out instead of using the buyout. Can't think of any other reason.

[OgtheDim]

Lorenzo's contract ending in June is...different.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Maybe they have two U22 targets and they either fell through before our window closed or else they're on deck for July and we'll let Ayo's deal run out instead of using the buyout. Can't think of any other reason.

Agree.

[SenorDingDong]

Lorenzo's contract ending in June is...different.

Lorenzo halfway through the 2026 season...

[jloome]

Lorenzo's contract ending in June is...different.

A rare bit of foresight. Timed it to end with the European season ending and free agents becoming available.

Also, regardless of how we do this year I foresee a lot of options not getting picked up next year. With the new money available, anyone marginal now isn't going to be around.

[jloome]

We should've loaned out Mailula to a USL C team. If we have him contracted for another three years, we might as well try and develop him into an MLS level player, assuming they're right and he's not good enough. He's only 22.

[SenorDingDong]

We should've loaned out Mailula to a USL C team. If we have him contracted for another three years, we might as well try and develop him into an MLS level player, assuming they're right and he's not good enough. He's only 22.

They need to do something with him. No point on him being here right now.

Here is my current list as of today of who I would let walk - might change by year end.

Shane Oneil
Aime Mabika
Kosi Thompson
Jordan Peruzza
Ayo Akinola


Deandre Kerr (maybe)
Servania (maybe)

[Ultra & Proud]

Lorenzo's contract ending in June is...different.

I would 100% buy him out this winter. What's the point of having him at DP for 6 months.

[FiveThreeTwo]

Knowing our current needs in the 9, and watching columbus destroy monterrery and seeing Jacen Russell-Rowe point into the open space after the CB is pulled way out of position, beating the high line with pace and then slotting that ball into the net with poise pisses me off to no-end... I seriously wonder who the hell was evaluating talent at our club lol. Seriously, I hope herdmans' got quality in there now, people that actually know how to evaluate skill sets. I'm not even saying this in hindsight - how anyone could look at JRR's pace, dribble, movement and awareness (which doesn't just grow after a day, it would have had seeds even in youth) and point to a big slower frame in Akinola or Peruzza and be like - yup. These guys are the guys. Those coaches I hope are no longer in the organization lol - and if it was only bob doing literally everything back then... jfc lol. Were they evaluating players based on 1980s 4-4-2 english tier 4?

Before herdman, I question how much of the movement of academy players was done methodically and with data points and professional growth, and was instead all done politically, financially and whoever you are buddy's with. Kinda like how its a cancer in jr hockey and amateur soccer in canada atm. Building on that assumption, I hope that entire approach has been blown up and fired out of a cannon.

[SenorDingDong]

I would 100% buy him out this winter. What's the point of having him at DP for 6 months.

Assume you mean next winter?

[jloome]

It's confusing as it says June 2026 but also says 2026 is an option year. So does that mean they can pull the plug in June 2025?

[GMoneyTalks]

Maybe they have two U22 targets and they either fell through before our window closed or else they're on deck for July and we'll let Ayo's deal run out instead of using the buyout. Can't think of any other reason.

I don't believe Richie can be bought down this year, where next year he can. So I am assuming they had to move Ayo off to sign Richie.

Regarding some of the other recent posts, I think O'Neil's contract is great value but with Kosi's development I think he could go on the market in the summer to get something out of him (Colorado?).
With Ayo as a TAM, I wonder if he's another player that gets waived, as well.
You can then potentially look to deal Rosted & Petretta in summer window. If successful, Dio & Ayo can be the summer buyouts close to the end of the window. As happy I am to see how Petretta & Rosted are playing, their contracts still suck.
I think the summer window will be a busy one.
I also wonder if Insigne extends his contract until the end of 2026 without extra $.

Anyone hear anything on Perruzza & Akinola? I feel if neither of them are announced on a loan to CPL by this weekend, that it's not their destination.

With Perruzza, it's possible to let him trial somewhere and then mutually term as he's not on the senior roster. Ayo I think gets waived and bought out in 2nd window if we haven't used the buyouts on anyone else.

[SenorDingDong]

It's confusing as it says June 2026 but also says 2026 is an option year. So does that mean they can pull the plug in June 2025?

I read it as he is under contract to June 2026 and the 2026 option is for the remainder of that year.

[ensco]

This may be a dumb question… but re Ayo, didn’t we know this already? He is on 700K plus…. Isn’t anyone whose salary is over $680K - or some such - a TAM player?

[leedsandTFC]

This may be a dumb question… but re Ayo, didn’t we know this already? He is on 700K plus…. Isn’t anyone whose salary is over $680K - or some such - a TAM player?

no, he could be an u22 player meaning his budget charge would have been like 200k.

i'd imagine a buyout or mutual termination is coming for ayo, and they will use the u22 spots in the summer.