TFC player 2024 in-season roster discussion

[jloome]

Assuming we don't make any big splash on a striker this summer and assuming we get healthy at some point.

When Richie and Lorenzo are back, why not stick Berna at #9? Something like this.

--‐-----------------Berna-------------------
-----------Lorenzo---Osorio-----------
Spicer - Longstaff - Flores - Richie

Yeah... it's been suggested to them many times, but we never see it. As such, I suspect we never will. Makes too much sense.

I think they'll either try and trade for a striker from in MLS -- there are a small number worthy who are under-utilized -- or they'll sign someone in the mid-season break from overseas. There's no way Herdman will leave it alone and be happy with what he's got, because what he's got isn't competitive at this level. A decade ago maybe, but the league is higher than our level now.

I seriously think we'd struggle to win USLC without Richie and Insigne in the lineup. Our spine is stronger because of Flores and Long, but it's still nowhere near the league leaders. And that's discounting th fact that most teams have at least one striker who can put up double digits.

[ag futbol]

We really (really) need to address the striker issue head-on and find an alternative that comes without caveats or half measures. There is no point of another Sapong, Owusu, etc… If that’s all our cap situation allows for, we wait until that changes.


Sadly, I also think our offensive woes also have to do with our Italian DP’s who are not well suited for the MLS style of play. If the rosters here were more balanced and there was quality across the field they’d be fine but this is a wacky league where individual efforts in attacking play often turn the tide. These guys have less free-wheeling in them than the best DP’s in this league. We need more Pozuelo, Giovinco type magic.

[SenorDingDong]

We really (really) need to address the striker issue head-on and find an alternative that comes without caveats or half measures. There is no point of another Sapong, Owusu, etc… If that’s all our cap situation allows for, we wait until that changes.


Sadly, I also think our offensive woes also have to do with our Italian DP’s who are not well suited for the MLS style of play. If the rosters here were more balanced and there was quality across the field they’d be fine but this is a wacky league where individual efforts in attacking play often turn the tide. These guys have less free-wheeling in them than the best DP’s in this league. We need more Pozuelo, Giovinco type magic.

Don't disagree, but Insigne this season so far has been really good. 2 of our 3 wins are basically from DP style gollasso's from him.

In terms of a striker I totally agree. No more half measures.

[jloome]

Between blocking an Insigne shot on the line and getting the way of Mailula's rebound shot yesterday, Prince Owusu has now officially blocked more of our shots than he's taken.

Speaking of Mailula, you saw in close play why he makes Herdman nervous. Too small and easily bounced off the ball, not much he can do on the ball.

To me, at this kind of level, he can't be a winger. He's a poacher striker or second striker at best.

But... he does sort of have something, too. He had 11 touches in very short time, and his movement to me looked well-thought out, like he was looking to be dangerous or find a dangerous spot.

I sort of wonder if he's one of those natural scorers who's not very good at anything else, and if he shouldn't get a shot up top. Surely he can press and knock in rebounds, which is about all the use and service our number 9 currently gets.

[Gogon]

He's a poacher striker or second striker at best.

Francis Jeffers =)

[jloome]

Francis Jeffers =)

Yeah, could be.

[SenorDingDong]

We have a lot of contracts ending this season. Will be interesting to see who stays. My guesses.

Staying:

Sean Johnson? - I feel he likes stability. Depends how the team does this season though.
Kevin Long - hopefully he stays, he's been great.
Shane O'Neil?
Mabika?
JMR
Kobe Franklin
Coello
Servania
Peruzza
Kerr

Going:

Akinola
Kosi Thompson
Prince Owusu?

[Canary10]

Between blocking an Insigne shot on the line and getting the way of Mailula's rebound shot yesterday, Prince Owusu has now officially blocked more of our shots than he's taken.

Speaking of Mailula, you saw in close play why he makes Herdman nervous. Too small and easily bounced off the ball, not much he can do on the ball.

To me, at this kind of level, he can't be a winger. He's a poacher striker or second striker at best.

But... he does sort of have something, too. He had 11 touches in very short time, and his movement to me looked well-thought out, like he was looking to be dangerous or find a dangerous spot.

I sort of wonder if he's one of those natural scorers who's not very good at anything else, and if he shouldn't get a shot up top. Surely he can press and knock in rebounds, which is about all the use and service our number 9 currently gets.

I really like Owusu's work rate. He does a lot of things that fit our system very well. Unfortunately one of those things doesn't appear to be scoring. But I would be inclined to keep him around for games we're defending a lead or if we're playing more of a counter attack game plan with a high block. I still feel like he could break out, but that looks less likely every game we see him. The guy is a beast. The priority should be to move Akinola, who hasn't shown to do anything well for a few years now, and bring in a clinical striker. Keep Owusu.

[SenorDingDong]

I really like Owusu's work rate. He does a lot of things that fit our system very well. Unfortunately one of those things doesn't appear to be scoring. But I would be inclined to keep him around for games we're defending a lead or if we're playing more of a counter attack game plan with a high block. I still feel like he could break out, but that looks less likely every game we see him. The guy is a beast. The priority should be to move Akinola, who hasn't shown to do anything well for a few years now, and bring in a clinical striker. Keep Owusu.

I feel for Owusu, his attitude and work rate is there. He does a lot right but just can't catch a break. Similar to Jimenez.

[JoesphNdo]

I like the work rate, but the quality is not there, it's just not. He's not an MLS level striker. We get the ball into the final third into good positions quite well and quite often, but we've nowhere to go with them from there, because the movement and speed of thought just aren't there from our strikers - from any of them.

[jloome]

I like the work rate, but the quality is not there, it's just not. He's not an MLS level striker. We get the ball into the final third into good positions quite well and quite often, but we've nowhere to go with them from there, because the movement and speed of thought just aren't there from our strikers - from any of them.

It's true. They're hoping one of them will "break out" but none of these guys are young players. The reason I'm somewhat in favour of giving Mailula a game or two up top is simply that he's the only one of them who hasn't really had a chance to show.

The others are too static. Whoever is teaching them the position is doing a shit job of it, frankly.

They don't try to push central defenders apart, they don't instintively go to the posts, they don't even usually try to run off the blind back shoulder. It looks almost like they're simply told "these three are the most dangerous areas in the box, get open near them." That and "run to the back post," albeit the latter seems to have been with the instruction, "and always be a step behind the play."

Owusu has no sense of where to be in the box. In buildup and pressing he's excellent. But most of the time, with no one even trying to find him, he's just clogging up space. Kerr, at least, sometimes finds a dangerous position. But there's nowhere near enough consistency and understanding to make him a threat whenever he gets the ball, which is what we need. He looks like what he is, a converted winger.

There are affordable strikers out there who are just merciless goal scorers. That's what we need.

[ag futbol]

I like the work rate, but the quality is not there, it's just not. He's not an MLS level striker. We get the ball into the final third into good positions quite well and quite often, but we've nowhere to go with them from there, because the movement and speed of thought just aren't there from our strikers - from any of them.

I agree. I look at the good ones or even the “average” ones in this league. They all might go through a drought here and there but they also have streaks where they snap up half chances and fill up the net.

I saw a clip lately of Haaland playing tiki-taka in Man City practice. Looked awful, couldn’t come close to keeping up. But nobody cares cause you put him in front of the net and he’s an absolute beast.

Whixh is why it pisses me off to no end that we gave up on JRR because supposedly our scouts said “all he does is score”. It’s the most valuable single skill in the entire sport, you dumbasses. If that’s all you can do and you do it really well, it’s still more than enough.

[los sonadores]

It's true. They're hoping one of them will "break out" but none of these guys are young players. The reason I'm somewhat in favour of giving Mailula a game or two up top is simply that he's the only one of them who hasn't really had a chance to show.

The others are too static. Whoever is teaching them the position is doing a shit job of it, frankly.

They don't try to push central defenders apart, they don't instintively go to the posts, they don't even usually try to run off the blind back shoulder. It looks almost like they're simply told "these three are the most dangerous areas in the box, get open near them." That and "run to the back post," albeit the latter seems to have been with the instruction, "and always be a step behind the play."

Owusu has no sense of where to be in the box. In buildup and pressing he's excellent. But most of the time, with no one even trying to find him, he's just clogging up space. Kerr, at least, sometimes finds a dangerous position. But there's nowhere near enough consistency and understanding to make him a threat whenever he gets the ball, which is what we need. He looks like what he is, a converted winger.

There are affordable strikers out there who are just merciless goal scorers. That's what we need.

Kerr showed real promise as a winger. Our left wings should be Insigne, Shaffelburg, Kerr.

[jloome]

Kerr showed real promise as a winger. Our left wings should be Insigne, Shaffelburg, Kerr.

Yeah, pretty much this. With JMR able to play off both feet, if we signed a good number 9 and had Shaff still, we would be covered two deep with actual competitive guys who can score, without the actual weight of producing all our goals on their backs.

Gah. I keep telling myself this is the last season we'll have to put up with the paucity of offensive talent but that's not making it easier.

[Bushmancan]

Don’t let #fireManning see this then

Check out this tweet at [COLOR=#000000]https://twitter.com/MLSMoves/status/1777745382665064705[/COLOR]

[JoesphNdo]

Don’t let #fireManning see this then

Check out this tweet at [COLOR=#000000]https://twitter.com/MLSMoves/status/1777745382665064705[/COLOR]

Nah he's not Canadian, a washed up USMNT prospect, Italian (Or another country with a large community here), a former player or someone who would provide fan service in some way shape or form. Manning wouldn't sign him in his prime, never mind now. He's probably never heard of him.

[MikeForbes]

I sometimes wonder about the idea that signing a DP number 9 and we immediately become a MLS Cup contender. Obviously we would be better, but I think we lack a creative playmaker that can provide the type of service a number 9 needs.

The 10 is a dying breed in a lot of the world, but is still alive and well in MLS. Guys like Acosta, Almada, Gauld and Mukhtar make teams cook. Hell, look at how much money Poz made Ayo in two months.

[ag futbol]

If the CBA changes proposed are implemented (see other thread) who do you buy out? Akinola is the obvious candidate by some distance.

Something should probably be done with Rosted too.

I’ve come around on Petretta. I think he’ll probably not live up to that pay packet but he could be a useful player for the team long run and be worth a lower number when he renews.

[MikeForbes]

If the CBA changes proposed are implemented (see other thread) who do you buy out? Akinola is the obvious candidate by some distance.

Something should probably be done with Rosted too.

I’ve come around on Petretta. I think he’ll probably not live up to that pay packet but he could be a useful player for the team long run and be worth a lower number when he renews.

Ayo and Mailula are very prime candidates for a buyout. Ayo maybe less so because his contract expires at the end of the year. If TFC buys out Mailula and let's Ayo's contract expire, that opens up all 3 u-22 spots and leaves a full DP spot for Hernandez to work with in the offseason.

[Ultra & Proud]

Ayo and Mailula are very prime candidates for a buyout. Ayo maybe less so because his contract expires at the end of the year. If TFC buys out Mailula and let's Ayo's contract expire, that opens up all 3 u-22 spots and leaves a full DP spot for Hernandez to work with in the offseason.

Hernandez should be one of the outs too. Signing a U22 with a transfer fee and then even talking about using a buyout on him less than a year later + the Owusu signing when we had no real manager or identity is definitely grounds to look for someone better for such an important position. Maybe he should get the analytics department to take a boo at his performance level over these months and see.

[reggie]

it wont happen...but i would buyout the italians.but i would do prince and rosted or raoul and try to get a loan for ayo the rest of the season and then move on from him

[SenorDingDong]

I would only buyout Akinola and try to fill his spot in the summer with a better striker. Mailula can probably be loaned.

We still need to field a team.

[ag futbol]

Hernandez should be one of the outs too. Signing a U22 with a transfer fee and then even talking about using a buyout on him less than a year later + the Owusu signing when we had no real manager or identity is definitely grounds to look for someone better for such an important position. Maybe he should get the analytics department to take a boo at his performance level over these months and see.

Yeah, I’m not terribly impressed either or sympathetic to giving someone with no prior experience in the big seat an opportunity to get his training wheels.

[JoesphNdo]

Didn't we already have a buyout and just chose not to use it? If so, that aspect won't matter much. I continue to suspect we're on a tight financial leash, but really hope I'm wrong.

Getting extra GAM + with 2 DPs (Assuming we can buy down Oso? Maybe we can't?) we have the door open to get 4 U22s and another $2m in a GAM on top, in theory, should be huge for us. It's a pity we're probably going to spend the GAM convincing Seba and Dero to come out of retirement and couldn't scout an U22 prospect if our life depended on it since that's actually hard (Plus, again, are we willing to pay for it?). But if we somehow made competent signings, we definitely stand to benefit significantly from this - more than most.

It's a nice step in general. I still think this, right now, is the moment for the league to throw caution to the wind so I hope there's more to come but this should help improve the standard of the league.

[SenorDingDong]

Didn't we already have a buyout and just chose not to use it? If so, that aspect won't matter much. I continue to suspect we're on a tight financial leash, but really hope I'm wrong.

Getting extra GAM + with 2 DPs (Assuming we can buy down Oso? Maybe we can't?) we have the door open to get 4 U22s and another $2m in a GAM on top, in theory, should be huge for us. It's a pity we're probably going to spend the GAM convincing Seba and Dero to come out of retirement and couldn't scout an U22 prospect if our life depended on it since that's actually hard (Plus, again, are we willing to pay for it?). But if we somehow made competent signings, we definitely stand to benefit significantly from this - more than most.

It's a nice step in general. I still think this, right now, is the moment for the league to throw caution to the wind so I hope there's more to come but this should help improve the standard of the league.

Yea I hope they do more this off season. Raise the CAP a lot. Allow teams to actually invest and have depth, especially if they want teams competing in all these competitions.

Even with the changes above, I think you could in theory reach a place where every player in the starting XI is making 1 million a year at least.

[jloome]

Didn't we already have a buyout and just chose not to use it? If so, that aspect won't matter much. I continue to suspect we're on a tight financial leash, but really hope I'm wrong.

Getting extra GAM + with 2 DPs (Assuming we can buy down Oso? Maybe we can't?) we have the door open to get 4 U22s and another $2m in a GAM on top, in theory, should be huge for us. It's a pity we're probably going to spend the GAM convincing Seba and Dero to come out of retirement and couldn't scout an U22 prospect if our life depended on it since that's actually hard (Plus, again, are we willing to pay for it?). But if we somehow made competent signings, we definitely stand to benefit significantly from this - more than most.

It's a nice step in general. I still think this, right now, is the moment for the league to throw caution to the wind so I hope there's more to come but this should help improve the standard of the league.

We just used it on Diomande. But we waived him first to see if someone would pick up his deal.

We're on a very tight financial leash. They have no budget money to spend, and no cap room. We basically have to sign someone one a free AND probably trade someone else for donuts to have enough cap room for the signing.

They're looking at striker options but we may have to wait until the next full window, is my impression. At that point, an extra $2M in effective cap space and two U22 DPs could allow us to make significant changes... but we'll have to use the second buyout option to do it, because we have too many players under contract as it is.

In other words, even with this mechanism, they're going to have trouble. We literally may have to delist cap-hit players from the roster and have them sit, not playing at either level.

They're not going to buy out Mailula, he's on too low money to be worth it. More likely if he doesn't show anything by then, they'll try to loan him back to SA.

[MikeForbes]

Based on recent events, any u-22's will come from Sheffield United.

[jloome]

Based on recent events, any u-22's will come from Sheffield United.

My impression is they're looking hard. They've got lists on lists of scouting reports and names.

[Ultra & Proud]

We just used it on Diomande. But we waived him first to see if someone would pick up his deal.

We're on a very tight financial leash. They have no budget money to spend, and no cap room. We basically have to sign someone one a free AND probably trade someone else for donuts to have enough cap room for the signing.

It's an easy choice then. Insigne. He frees the most cap space available, a roster spot, and it's not exactly like he's led us to the promised land anyway.

But it won't happen because of cost.

I expect no buyout of anyone.

[jloome]

It's an easy choice then. Insigne. He frees the most cap space available, a roster spot, and it's not exactly like he's led us to the promised land anyway.

But it won't happen because of cost.

I expect no buyout of anyone.

Nah, they're not touching him. Too political, trying to explain $30M flushed.

Also, I was wrong: we only get $1M extra because it's half-season change and we already have two DPs.

To me, it has to be Bernardeschi. He has six goals in six years from open play (all with us, he hadn't scored from open play fro Juve since 2018) in fifty games for us. He has more from the penalty spot (7) in year one than he's had in every game since.

He also doesn't provide assists.

He's a very talented guy but he was not raised up as a winger to provide service; he was primarily a goalscorer when he went from Fiorentina to Juve and had never refound that touch (or played in the positions where he was successful, on the left and as second striker. Mental.)

With his full $681,000 cap hit and another $1M in GAM, and a dp spot we can sign a 20-goal scorer and a 10-goal backup. End of debate.

Service is a lot easier to provide than goal scoring.

But I fear they won't do that, either, as that'll cost about $15M. Fede's on a deal until the end of 2026.

Instead, to appease the board and protect jobs, we'll get a lone TAM striker who may or may not be what we need.