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    Default John Herdman evaluation thread

    Time to set up a dedicated thread for John.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Clothes & hair have a lot to do to match Vanney....

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    Ranks below Chris Armas in career TFC wins..... Lowest winning percentage in club history at 0.000 with an 0-0-1 record....

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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    Ranks below Chris Armas in career TFC wins..... Lowest winning percentage in club history at 0.000 with an 0-0-1 record....

    ^



    Also, IMO, IIUC each sitch, am getting, besides a selfishness, some unprofessional vibes in the player management/relations manner aspects he’s so far treated the likes of Ibarra, Sapong and Seba; I would even include Dunfield in that, as of now, assessment as well.

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    Tough news about Herdman today. Sounds like heís had a really tough year. Hopefully he finds a lot of support being part of TFC.

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    I am not sure anyone knew he lost his sister last year, let alone that way. Very tough.

    This interview is a must listen.

    Herdman saying his biggest regret about Qatar 2022 is .. not quitting beforehand, is kind of wild. He is just a completely different breed of cat.
    "There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff

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    6 games

    After 2 games, we all had great thoughts

    4 games later, probably not the same things would be said

    There are some trends noticeable & its early days yet.


    &


    I'm not sure all of these last 2 results is on the players

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    Some of it is on Herdman, but tbh it would be hard for any manager to make much of this unbalanced squad, especially with the only strong offensive player out for weeks.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    I see a lot I like, a few things I don't.

    I think he's got a little bit of blinders regarding certain players. Gomis is a good young defender, but that first goal was on him, and Rosted -- a more experienced defender who is decent in the air -- played well last week. To me, he should've probably started.

    I'm not sure the 343 is always the best option. I think there are times when we're being pressed, like Vancouver, and they dont' have much behind that press that a 4132 would work better, switching us from a wide to narrow profile and attacking their spine when they've got three or four men high.

    He's somewhat hamstrung by us having a deficient roster. To me, the way he's playing, Osorio still isn't back to starter quality. Maybe at 30, he never will be. He may have lost too much of a step, and he hasn't really adjusted for it. Coello isn't athletic enough most of the time. Flores is a workhorse but makes the odd really stupid play. Longstaff looks like a journeyman to me, decent enough but nothing special.

    So... we don't really have any starting quality midfielders, compared to teams that will compete in this league.

    Fede continues to try to do too much and was better at wingback, when he had to run both ways and keep things simple.

    Spicer looked like a rookie today. Often out of position, didn't track back enough. He looked like a converted forward, which is what he is.

    Kerr was decent but not great. Owusu offered nothing.,

    I guess my point is that he doesn't really have a very good roster to work with, and for at least this year that's not going to change.

    Sometimes, as such, we would be better playing a defensive shape -- a 4-5-1 even -- and trying to grind out results. Not sure Herdman is a practical sort of coach, more one who always goes for the win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Some of it is on Herdman, but tbh it would be hard for any manager to make much of this unbalanced squad, especially with the only strong offensive player out for weeks.
    Yeah.... this is a much more succinct and less rambling way of putting it

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    I find Herdman's insistence on using Osorio in one of the primary attacking positions confusing when Oso has spent 8+ years as a successful box to box type midfielder in MLS. I get TFC has very little to no talent upfront when Insigne is out, but using one of your DPs out of position every game isn't a wise move.

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    according to herdman the leadership group put in a good shift in lastnight

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    With this team, I think itís a roster building story first and a coaching story second.

    Thereís only so much Herdman can do with this group. Of course heís not been perfect but Iíd put whatever shortcomings he shows behind the fact we are severally lacking in certain areas

    (Aka quit avoiding the problem and get a real, canít miss striker to play up top instead of a bunch of half measures)

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    Yep overall I remain impressed. He's currently losing to teams with better players than we have, it is what it is. He can't perform miracles. We've a meagre squad with our best player, possibly best two players, injured.

    We continue to be a horrifically assembled roster, and our decisions this winter are another chapter in that, and the blame for that isn't on Herdman. Getting a play off match continues to be a huge success if we can pull it off, and that will involve losing alot of matches.
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 04-07-2024 at 10:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    I find Herdman's insistence on using Osorio in one of the primary attacking positions confusing when Oso has spent 8+ years as a successful box to box type midfielder in MLS. I get TFC has very little to no talent upfront when Insigne is out, but using one of your DPs out of position every game isn't a wise move.
    So who would you use as an attacking player? Akinola? It's not like there's a lot of options with this terribly assembled squad.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Herdman in today's presser relieved a few of my concerns...still wondering about his ability to put together a midfield. But he was spot on about so many things in that presser.

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    I am beginning to question the quality of certain people brought in on the staff

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    in one year we've gone from being the worst team squad in MLS to a middling one.

    on our day with most players available can go tote to toe with anyone in the league, but without depth to seriously contend for honours.

    i think this was pretty much best case scenario, or close to this season.

    learning curve too, but im pretty optimistic about the future and think the squad next year can be a top 3 seed in the east and challenge for MLS cup

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    gotta be careful...johnson insigne osorio bernardeschi rosted laryea flores etienne are all under contract for 2025 when theyll be turning between 29 to 36...so how do you go from not doing great currently to being top 3 in the east and a contender for mls cup next year? do you keep the core where 6-8 players in advanced age would be in the eleven or do you make significant changes where you would need time to develop chemistry? either case looks difficult with dps who are either underperforming or absent...and the other question is will herdmans coaching improve for 2025?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    gotta be careful...johnson insigne osorio bernardeschi rosted laryea flores etienne are all under contract for 2025 when theyll be turning between 29 to 36...so how do you go from not doing great currently to being top 3 in the east and a contender for mls cup next year? do you keep the core where 6-8 players in advanced age would be in the eleven or do you make significant changes where you would need time to develop chemistry? either case looks difficult with dps who are either underperforming or absent...and the other question is will herdmans coaching improve for 2025?
    clearly need to move some guys on, namely rosted, servania, maybe petretta. that + having akinola and diomande budget charges off books will give like 4 mill to strengthen both starting XI and bench, which is a lot and could push us towards being a top 3 team if used correctly.

    also need to smartly use the u22 spots.

    that being said, they need to work on a way to consistently get all those guys on the pitch. i believe that core is very strong in MLS, but theyve only played 1 game together all year so far.

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    I think Herdman is on a massive "this is how you run a team" learning curve. I am willing to allow this to work out because in the end, once we have a decent squad, we will be better with him, I believe. But he's on a learning curve this season that has been and will cause issues.


    I'm going to consider this and put more up tomorrow - reactions after poor losses are a bad time to discuss long term issues.

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    The players seem like they have quit on Herdman already. No desire to win..... obviously the team is missing some key players but the effort level isn't there.

    I think Herdman is struggling with the amount of games that happen in club football. Also tactically he needs to be more flexible especially with the amount of players we have out.

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    I'm worried he doesn't adapt tactically to game states. We were pinned in our end for much of yesterday, unable to play through their midfield.

    But we have a speed and power advantage in multiple positions over NYRB and would have been better going direct, forcing them to fight for possession in their own end.

    Instead, we double down and kept building from the back no matter how ineffective it was.

    Jury is still very much out for me.

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    Team lose manager bad, team win manager good

    The bar at the start of the season was be in a playoff conversation. I've always said first round exit, with what he inherited, is a successful season and I'm confident we'll at least hit that.

    Let's not forget the utter fucking drizzling shit show this man inherited. I'll judge him on how ruthless we are this off season and what we do next season. He's doing a very good job so far this season with the mission given

    Bill Manning continues to be an albatross that drags us down and until we shed him we have a low ceiling

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    Jumping purely to say that this is maybe the first time that I’ve felt good about us despite a terrible run of form. Injuries, shit roster management, international duty. Unlucky but also a squad that is terribly fucked by the past (and Bill Manning’s incompetence/negligence).

    We’ll get there once the dead weight is shed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Team lose manager bad, team win manager good
    No, that's too simplistic in this case.

    I think he's a great motivator.

    But the reason we were winning wasn't just his motivation, it was a new offensive set that other teams didn't know how to play against yet.

    We are tactically inert right now. We keep trying the same thing even though it does not work.

    When it's working, it's a fine tactical set that puts the ball into the danger zones near the box.

    But building slowly from the back, wide, is all we do.

    And every other team knows this.

    All they need to do now is a) break our high pressure by dropping a midfielder back and B) shift as a block to the ball's side, so they can clog up the sidelines and make playing out of our end difficult.

    If we were faster and better, generally, it wouldn't be an issue, as we would play through them on the diagonal. But we're not.

    We need another tactical look that upends other teams' expectations, maybe a 352 where we concentrate on controlling the middle of the pitch.

    Until Herdman shows some recognition that one tactical look is not enough, to me the jury is still out. Yes, our roster is unbalanced. But he's doing them no favours right now by trying to build from the back constantly. Lump it into their end, let us fight for balls, unbalance their defensive positioning occasionally.

    The most effective teams in this league mix build-up with directness, they don't play one-dimensionally.

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    The Herdman deathwatch is getting close to being launched but I think Hernandez is up next.

    If Herdman doesn't turn things around and show an ability to work tactically with the roster we have with anything other than motivational speeches then he won't be part of the "new direction" of the club.

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    way too early for this.

    the current players he's failing with have failed under 3 coaches at this point.

    time for a clear out, which was always due.

    changing coaches every year is wa surefire way to always be at the bottom of the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post

    If Herdman doesn't turn things around and show an ability to work tactically with the roster we have ...
    I think they're pretty well agreed that the roster we have is shit, so I imagine he'll get at least this window and one more to show he can make more of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I think they're pretty well agreed that the roster we have is shit, so I imagine he'll get at least this window and one more to show he can make more of them.
    Yep.

    They did well earlier in year but the depth I'd mostly not even mls quality.

    He gets 2 more windows. If the team at the start of next year isn't good still then there are questions to be asked.

    But so far we've had a half decent record with most players available, and have lost basically every game with 5+ starters out.

    The squad needs far more talent.

 

 

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