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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    JH was all in on analytics based recruitment approach - presumably, Rubio was brought back to include that. I would think any attempt by Herdman to go "well I like this guy because of his CONCACAF/CMNT spirit" is going to have to be backed up by something in terms of analytics.
    If you think Herdman works for Hernandez, this is true.

    I don’t. They work together, best case for Hernandez. It's going to be political, more of a “one for you, one for me” player selction process.

    That's my guess anyway.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  2. #32
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    Just looking at Liam Millar. On loan at PNE in the Championship, not established as a regular, deal expires 2025…

    if Insigne somehow goes, Herdman will be on this in a flash.He may be anyway, given how much time Insigne misses.

    Also, don’t forget, Millar has played as a 9 for Canada, backed when he was first getting called.

    EDIT: I see his wife is also from the GTA, and they have a baby daughter. I am moving this up from just an idea, to damn near a certainty….
    Last edited by ensco; 10-23-2023 at 05:46 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Just looking at Liam Millar. On loan at PNE in the Championship, not established as a regular, deal expires 2025…

    if Insigne somehow goes, Herdman will be on this in a flash.He may be anyway, given how much time Insigne misses.

    Also, don’t forget, Millar has played as a 9 for Canada, backed when he was first getting called.

    EDIT: I see his wife is also from the GTA, and they have a baby daughter. I am moving this up from just an idea, to damn near a certainty….
    Might be some competition there. He's playing well on loan in the Championship this year.

  4. #34
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    Hope is that we have three new people in charge and it’s not likely we’re as bad again as we’ve been three years running.

    There was something particularly shitty about Bob Bradley’s first season. I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it. He basically threw it for the sake of later success (which of course never arrived). I think you only get that sort of job entitlement in MLS and especially at MLSE in MLS. It made this season even more difficult to tolerate.

    Herdman and his staff are going to be putting everything they have into TFC. It’s the first time since Vanney that you can say we have a decent staff. And Hernandez and Rubio together just can’t be worse than BB as sole sporting director, or the previous set of clowns that we had. Rubio, at least, has had some success, he was here when we were making good decisions.

    But we should know something by the time pre-season rolls around. In truth, it was possible to predict (as I did predict) we would finish last or close to it by looking at the roster that opened Bradley’s first season. It took some time to sort out why he was making bad decisions, but it wasn’t difficult to see that they were bad decisions.
    Last edited by los sonadores; 10-24-2023 at 01:17 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by los sonadores View Post
    Hope is that we have three new people in charge and it’s not likely we’re as bad again as we’ve been three years running.

    There was something particularly shitty about Bob Bradley’s first season. I don’t think I’ve seen anything like it. He basically threw it for the sake of later success (which of course never arrived). I think you only get that sort of job entitlement in MLS and especially at MLSE in MLS. It made this season even more difficult to tolerate.

    Herdman and his staff are going to be putting everything they have into TFC. It’s the first time since Vanney that you can say we have a decent staff. And Hernandez and Rubio together just can’t be worse than BB as sole sporting director, or the previous set of clowns that we had. Rubio, at least, has had some success, he was here when we were making good decisions.

    But we should know something by the time pre-season rolls around. In truth, it was possible to predict (as I did predict) we would finish last or close to it by looking at the roster that opened Bradley’s first season. It took some time to sort out why he was making bad decisions, but it wasn’t difficult to see that they were bad decisions.
    lol...come on dude, that is quite the revisiionist history. Who is kidding whom? lol. Anyone who pointed out how bad we were before the season started (like I did) was ridiculed and attacked and name called....you partook yourself...and insisted we were good enough and kept insisting we were quality and would easily make the playoffs.

    For the record, I pointed out what a disaster the Bradleys were and should be gone over and over....and until the TSN piece on Bradley came out pointing out how bad he was with video of the exact same stuff I was pointing out already...only then did the tide turn and some realized, yeah MB is completely done.

    Also for the record, I did say before the season started we had the worst midfield in the league ("easily") in MAK, MB and Oso. And suprrise surprise, I was bang on....



    As for are there glimmers of hope...as long as Manning is here...no. We got rid of the three Bradleys which was a good start...but Manning is still here....and has to go...only then, can we truly start fresh.


    Apart from the two Italians...we have a horrible roster. No playmakers...no DM...no defenders...and again, glaringly, no striker.

    Herdmann's raw raw approach might work a bit but too many holes in this team that I don't know how/where you even begin to try and fix.....so expect more of the same next year. Not Herdman's fault though, he has inherited an absolute mess....I wish him well. I do have a feeling he'll regret not staying with Canada through the WC....it was an easy gig, some real quality players, and playing at home. He'll be demoralized soon enough here and with Manning sticking his nose into everything...its not going to get better I fear....

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Apart from the two Italians...we have a horrible roster. No playmakers...no DM...no defenders...and again, glaringly, no striker.
    The Italians are garbage. Both equally terrible. They offer nothing but a passport and names people recognize. As much as Bob's roster construction killed us, bringing in these two losers was an equally poor move and it would have sunk any manager. Even if we had gotten a DP level forward, they probably would have starved him of service while trying that same cut in move a dozen times a match while either kicking the ball into a row of shins (Insigne) or dribbling right into defenders and losing the ball (Bernadeschi).

    Neither would thrive as a DP worthy level player on any decent team in MLS. Sure they might be good on a stacked team like Miami next year if you suspended cap realities but they'd just be part of a bigger set up where all their flaws, and there are many, would be covered by players who actually deserve DP money in MLS.

    We go nowhere until those two are out of town.

  7. #37
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    We'd better NOT start signing CMNT OR USMNT players if we want to be successful. Stay away from CONCACAF too for that matter. We need to aim further up the food chain if we want success. MLS and CONCACAF don't line up their international commitments with the FIFA international breaks. This season I'd say the straw that broke the camels back was when we lost so many players to the Gold Cup. We were in a hole to begin with and losing Osorio, Laryea and Johnson certainly didn't help us dig ourselves out of it. We need to start looking at high ranking FIFA countries with lots of depth so that middling, average players don't get called up to play for their country. If we're looking at passports we should also stick with countries that play the least amount of international games during our summer.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    The Italians are garbage. Both equally terrible. They offer nothing but a passport and names people recognize. As much as Bob's roster construction killed us, bringing in these two losers was an equally poor move and it would have sunk any manager. Even if we had gotten a DP level forward, they probably would have starved him of service while trying that same cut in move a dozen times a match while either kicking the ball into a row of shins (Insigne) or dribbling right into defenders and losing the ball (Bernadeschi).

    Neither would thrive as a DP worthy level player on any decent team in MLS. Sure they might be good on a stacked team like Miami next year if you suspended cap realities but they'd just be part of a bigger set up where all their flaws, and there are many, would be covered by players who actually deserve DP money in MLS.

    We go nowhere until those two are out of town.
    Yep, let’s take the rose coloured glasses off, these guys have been under performers. They don’t suit MLS, haven’t adapted, and are worse than many of their DP counterparts who earn far less.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddies View Post
    We'd better NOT start signing CMNT OR USMNT players if we want to be successful. Stay away from CONCACAF too for that matter. We need to aim further up the food chain if we want success. MLS and CONCACAF don't line up their international commitments with the FIFA international breaks. This season I'd say the straw that broke the camels back was when we lost so many players to the Gold Cup. We were in a hole to begin with and losing Osorio, Laryea and Johnson certainly didn't help us dig ourselves out of it. We need to start looking at high ranking FIFA countries with lots of depth so that middling, average players don't get called up to play for their country. If we're looking at passports we should also stick with countries that play the least amount of international games during our summer.
    You realize that there are limited international roster spots right?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Yep, let’s take the rose coloured glasses off, these guys have been under performers. They don’t suit MLS, haven’t adapted, and are worse than many of their DP counterparts who earn far less.
    Nobody could sell me that either of the Italians deserve even TAM level money at this point. They'd be serverly underwhelming at $700K with their level of production + attitude.

  11. #41
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    I'm just gonna put no expectations on the club until I start seeing some signs of winning and a steady process in place lol. It's gonna be hard to assume were organically bringing in players that want to be here and are buying into the fans, city and the project when we aren't winning, and are dead last lol. That isn't how being a professional usually works & career aspirations wise lol.

    As long as you are bringing in players who are basically coming because you are willing to pay more than anyone else and you are a bottom table club- that's where you are losing alot of your winners' mentality and fight. Why truly give a fuck about results and the clubs standing for trophies when you signed there to begin with because your agent told you this club are the ones willing to pay you the most, and the exec came all the way there on their dime to wine and dine you and sell you a place you had no idea really existed until they came to you? Go home and cry about it into your wads & stacks of Bordens lol, then post a few positive vibes on social media and everythings good.

    Personally i think it's gonna be a rocky road- unless they can win the lottery and find a bunch of MB4 2.0 type signings- players that are willing to buy into a project and from day 1 bleed the club/city and set the example in the locker-room on how players should be as pros' in every single day of training. Reality is - those type of players don't just join clubs as passion projects, and if your club wasn't already on their radar the real ones aren't wine and dined and sold on a place or club they've rarely heard of. These rock solid anchor guys who build the culture and hold accountability are usually home-growns or locals with league leading talent, who understand the importance of everything and why every little decision or result matters- it's why MB4 was a rare breed even in his prime here.

    This is all why JH/Herdman/Manning can't fuck around anymore, and are gonna have to tread lightly on player acquisitions. As MB4 said in his departing presser - do more diligence on players mentalities to ensure they align with the league and clubs expectations, and not just sign them based on perceived skills/quality and hope when they get here they will buy-in and be good community and locker-room guys. Most players/agents that are approaching us atm given our league standing, owners and available salary cap space/DP slots are looking for career cashouts- which comes with the inevitability that they've conceded all potential for winning hardware- and their entire mentality of giving a fuck about fans, the city and the club winning trophies goes out the window. Just look at most of the signings we've had to overpay to come here post Vanney.

    They should almost genuinely ban the idea of wine and dining and travelling to some place to entice a player to join. If they want to build a genuine culture, players shouldn't have to be fed like kings and sold an elevator pitch on why this random MLS club want them to join their starting 11 and it would be a nifty cool project if they did. If that needs to happen for them to even know who we are, then it should be a red flag. To circle that rant back to the OP's question... I think personally there could be glimmers of hope but I think were in for a bit of a slog and long haul of slow improvement while the shit gets untangled.
    Last edited by FiveThreeTwo; 10-24-2023 at 04:00 PM.

  12. #42
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    Are there any glimmers of hope for next season?

    For me, there's one: it can't possibly get worse... Or can it?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    For me, there's one: it can't possibly get worse... Or can it?
    Statistically speaking - it can get worse.

  14. #44
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    Well, we're not going to hear of anything happening until after MLS Cup anyway, so ... the wait for hope continues.

  15. #45
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    Wasn't there a supposed Herdman training camp after the season ended?
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 10-27-2023 at 01:19 PM.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by wopchop View Post
    Statistically speaking - it can get worse.
    Highly unlikely though. I say with the lineup we're left with now, with no additions other than whatever we get in the Superdraft, Herdman could probably work enough magic with our crud to get us to around 30 points in 2024.

  17. #47
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    If an unbeaten team are Invincibles, would a winless team be called the Deplorables?

  18. #48
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    I say if we didn't use the Italians down the stretch this season, from July onward, we probably would have had at least 5-7 more points.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    If an unbeaten team are Invincibles, would a winless team be called the Deplorables?
    I think Conquerables captures it.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  20. #50
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    Here is the one scenario of hope…. The decision on Manning is already done, the only reason they havent pulled the trigger is they are giving him a nice out, when Argos win the Grey Cup he can leave with some dignity and then they pull the plug. #hope

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Here is the one scenario of hope…. The decision on Manning is already done, the only reason they havent pulled the trigger is they are giving him a nice out, when Argos win the Grey Cup he can leave with some dignity and then they pull the plug. #hope
    I suspect you're embuing the board with a level of humanism that they are unlikely to express.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    If an unbeaten team are Invincibles, would a winless team be called the Deplorables?
    We're The Deflatables.

  23. #53
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    I think almost every subtraction from this team will be exciting and another sliver of hope of improvement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I think almost every subtraction from this team will be exciting and another sliver of hope of improvement.
    Exciting, but rare. Possibly non-existent. We have 21 players under contract and I'm not sure who would sign any of them for the value we need.

    I'm genuinely more excited that we have nine empty roster spots. Because the only way to turn our current team into winners is to add quality. Like, all nine being starters would be a good start, even though we don't have the dosh for it.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Exciting, but rare. Possibly non-existent. We have 21 players under contract and I'm not sure who would sign any of them for the value we need.

    I'm genuinely more excited that we have nine empty roster spots. Because the only way to turn our current team into winners is to add quality. Like, all nine being starters would be a good start, even though we don't have the dosh for it.
    Yeah this is going to be quite a test for our newly hired/promoted three. How much do we expect them to get it right first off? (Not rhetorical question.)

    Hernandez is green and his first acquisitions seem, so far, slightly off/wrong headed. Rubio has some more experience but will have his hands full with remaking (let’s hope) the scouting dept. This is Herdman’s first club team. They haven’t worked together before in these roles.

    I want to see a couple of really, genuinely good and needed additions - good players and good fit - just to keep (my) morale up. But I’m not expecting very much more than that. Unless they can somehow clear roster/cap space it might mostly have to come from improved attitudes and better (more thoughtful and more structured) coaching.

  26. #56
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    Where there are games & time & resources...there is hope.

    (I went down a rabbit hole yesterday of former English League teams now gone bankrupt - being a Darlington or a Hereford supporter is way worse then being a supporter of a bad team)

 

 

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