TFC 2023-2024 player off-season roster discussion

[barticusz]

Without getting too far into the specifics, I generally agree with the statement JH doesn’t inspire much confidence. At best, I’d say he’s learning on the job.

This is the crazy part. For a club that has resources it's shocking to me that we don't spend wisely on getting the right management staff to lead us in the right direction. If we're serious about winning, we should never have a GM or Manager that is learning on the job.

All this to say I am feeling more pessimistic with this team than I ever have. I will still watch and am hoping for the best but other than Herdman, there is nothing that inspires confidence with this group.

[los sonadores]

Without getting too far into the specifics, I generally agree with the statement JH doesn’t inspire much confidence. At best, I’d say he’s learning on the job.

Yeah, learning on the job and subject to trying to assert himself as GM… hence acquiring players without knowing who our manager is… somewhat randomly, and so far, not successfully.

He does seem like a sort of Harold Ballard hire. Someone already on the payroll who may or may not know what he’s doing. Cheap and quick here was not about saving Ballard’s own money but instead, Manning’s own job.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Kai Wagner as a still available option for the role of Centre Central Defender for TFC in a Herdman Back Three?

[kuku]

Aberdeen stopper Angus MacDonald 'wanted' by number of clubs in England and Toronto FC

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/transfer-news-live-rangers-celtic-31731251

[Mr. Inbetween]

^
Interesting. IIRC, Aberdeen defender @ centre or left in a three. Hmmm… makes positional and likely financial sense. One suggestion is that he would like more playing time.

[MikeForbes]

His name is Angus? I don't know about this idea. Surely we can get someone with a better name?

[nick.mastro]

I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but insigne has been posting ALOT with TFC tagged or mentioned. Safe to say he’s not going anywhere - and let’s really hope he’s bought in this year and going to turn things around.

Would really love to see him as one of our poacher strikers at the top in Herdmans formation.

[SenorDingDong]

I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but insigne has been posting ALOT with TFC tagged or mentioned. Safe to say he’s not going anywhere - and let’s really hope he’s bought in this year and going to turn things around.

Would really love to see him as one of our poacher strikers at the top in Herdmans formation.

Yea he is committed. He said he plans to finish his contract here and wants to bring it 300% this next season.

Berna has been the total opposite this off season. I really hope someone takes him. Having him comeback is worst case scenario.

[barticusz]

Maybe the reason why Insigne is showing this commitment is because there’s a plan to actually divest of Berna. The two have not mixed well and it’s clear they’re both alphas which played our awfully over the course of the year.

If Berna is gone Insigne is back in the spotlight where he may want to be.

I also wonder how he’d do in a shadow striker type of role. Freedom to move but also putting him in a spot where he can score in buckets. Insigne on the wing, with this team, in this league is a complete waste.

[NK Toronto]

Don't understand how you guys can blame JH who has been in his role for only a few months and has inherited 21 undesirable contracts. The fact they didn't use their 2023 buy out suggests MLSE has cut their budget. Don't expect to see another DP until either Insigne or Berna are gone. Your anger should be directed towards Manning and the MLSE Board for continuing to employ him. The damage Manning has inflicted on the club is so deep it may be irreversible.

[SenorDingDong]

Maybe the reason why Insigne is showing this commitment is because there’s a plan to actually divest of Berna. The two have not mixed well and it’s clear they’re both alphas which played our awfully over the course of the year.

If Berna is gone Insigne is back in the spotlight where he may want to be.

I also wonder how he’d do in a shadow striker type of role. Freedom to move but also putting him in a spot where he can score in buckets. Insigne on the wing, with this team, in this league is a complete waste.

Herdmann definitely needs to change where he plays cause him and Berna on the wings have been a huge failure.

Second striker who can roam makes total sense.

[Areathrasher]

^
Interesting. IIRC, Aberdeen defender @ centre or left in a three. Hmmm… makes positional and likely financial sense. One suggestion is that he would like more playing time.

https://twitter.com/europacnfleague/...ISCpVXNaA&s=19

Scored this absolute screamer in a European game this season.

[barticusz]

Don't understand how you guys can blame JH who has been in his role for only a few months and has inherited 21 undesirable contracts. The fact they didn't use their 2023 buy out suggests MLSE has cut their budget. Don't expect to see another DP until either Insigne or Berna are gone. Your anger should be directed towards Manning and the MLSE Board for continuing to employ him. The damage Manning has inflicted on the club is so deep it may be irreversible.

To be clear I totally agree with you that Manning is front and centre to blame for this disaster. Hiring JH is yet another possible misstep. My Issue with JH is that he has no experience and has not made a single move that worked last season. That is a problem considering we were the worst team in MLS history and he couldn’t find one guy that could step in and try and move the dial the other direction.

Just as much as you need talent and experience on the field so do you at the decision and team building level. We’re never getting out of this hole otherwise. I hope I’m completely wrong.

[bought with blo]

Herdmann definitely needs to change where he plays cause him and Berna on the wings have been a huge failure.

Second striker who can roam makes total sense.

Personally I think a shift to a 3-4-2-1 would likely help us utilize the Italian duo the best. Give them the middle of the park. Use wingbacks to generate width. Keep the Italians close together near goal.

If you can orchestrate good attack patterns for them, every one will know where to be, and when to be there, they should be able to pull the strings. Really the most lacking thing last year was structure and repeatability. They were playing like they were on a playground. Doing whatever they thought might work in the moment.

Heardman really needs to have all the players on the same page. Organize them so that they actually play like they're a team. Have all the players understand their role in every phase of the game. It doesn't sound like rocket science to me. We were so unfocused and sloppy last year. I do believe that a good structure should be able to get more out of every player we have. Even the shitty ones.

[OgtheDim]

Not sure how getting rid of Kaye & Hedges can be considered a failure....

One was wanting out bad & the other was at best, a distraction.

Apart from that, all the moves in season are maybes
Prince
Cassius


Out of season

He's ditched

Ranjitsingh
Romero
Antonoglu
Vasquez
Sapong
Guiteriez


Got Garber $ for reentry draft picks
Kept the #1 pick and used it as wisely as possible

What's he done wrong here?

*****

Edit

Ibarra - a punt I suppose - $50k in GAM - I'd call that a wash as it was better to watch him for a few months then anybody else



I'm just going to wait for some real data to make a call on JH - will look at things as a whole on day 1.

[ag futbol]

To be clear I totally agree with you that Manning is front and centre to blame for this disaster. Hiring JH is yet another possible misstep. My Issue with JH is that he has no experience and has not made a single move that worked last season. That is a problem considering we were the worst team in MLS history and he couldn’t find one guy that could step in and try and move the dial the other direction.

Just as much as you need talent and experience on the field so do you at the decision and team building level. We’re never getting out of this hole otherwise. I hope I’m completely wrong.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

[los sonadores]

I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but insigne has been posting ALOT with TFC tagged or mentioned. Safe to say he’s not going anywhere - and let’s really hope he’s bought in this year and going to turn things around.

Would really love to see him as one of our poacher strikers at the top in Herdmans formation.

Yes but no, not up top. In his first, more effective (half) season, his shooting percentage was just about last in the league.

[los sonadores]

Personally I think a shift to a 3-4-2-1 would likely help us utilize the Italian duo the best. Give them the middle of the park. Use wingbacks to generate width. Keep the Italians close together near goal.

If you can orchestrate good attack patterns for them, every one will know where to be, and when to be there, they should be able to pull the strings. Really the most lacking thing last year was structure and repeatability. They were playing like they were on a playground. Doing whatever they thought might work in the moment.

Heardman really needs to have all the players on the same page. Organize them so that they actually play like they're a team. Have all the players understand their role in every phase of the game. It doesn't sound like rocket science to me. We were so unfocused and sloppy last year. I do believe that a good structure should be able to get more out of every player we have. Even the shitty ones.

This seems reasonable if both Italians are here.

And reasonable in general.

[los sonadores]

Don't understand how you guys can blame JH who has been in his role for only a few months and has inherited 21 undesirable contracts. The fact they didn't use their 2023 buy out suggests MLSE has cut their budget. Don't expect to see another DP until either Insigne or Berna are gone. Your anger should be directed towards Manning and the MLSE Board for continuing to employ him. The damage Manning has inflicted on the club is so deep it may be irreversible.

I don’t feel any anger at all towards Hernandez (nor do I see it on this board) just doubts about a GM with no experience, another possibly dubious hire from Manning who is under a certain amount of pressure to keep his job, one would think.

If Hernandez had not brought in the two players from Germany and South Africa who have done really nothing, not looked good and are probably not what the new manager needs, I would be less doubtful. They both might work out but so far both seem doubtful responses to our problems. Given no Rubio or Herdman when the moves were made, it’s reasonable to attribute them to Hernandez. The rest (Hedges insisting on a move and so of course you accommodate him, etc, are fairly elementary).

We shall see… we don’t really know yet… and I hope Rubio, Hernandez and Herdman together are a good trio and make a lot of good decisions.

[bought with blo]

On the buyout, it seems likely it was used on MB, since he had a player choice option, it is likely he triggered it before leaving. If I was upset at the club and had that kind of lever, there is no way I'm not pulling it.

We just didn't hear about it for PR reasons. We pay him, he retires, and doesn't throw a fit in the press on his way out the door.

No other option seems plausible. There are too many reasonable ways we could have used the buyout otherwise. MLSE balking at paying diomande out seems unlikely. We cannot be that budget constrained. It is simply unreasonable to assume the board wouldn't pay a buyout on a bench player. They lose more change than that in the seat cushions.

[NK Toronto]

By every reasonable metric Manning has been a disaster as president. The only logical reason I can think of as to why he hasn't been fired is money. MLSE doesn't want to buy out his contract and then have to find a replacement. With Larry T. looking to reduce his equity and Edward Roger's increasingly flexing his muscles I fear that the free spending days are over.

Didn't Edward Roger's put the kibosh on a WNBA Team, which are typically big money losers?

I suspect we will see lots of changes at MLSE in the next few years, and not for the better.

[rydermike]

I think we need to stop using the JH acronym. Some are using it for Jason Hernandez and others for John Herdman and it's easy to mix them up.

[los sonadores]

On the buyout, it seems likely it was used on MB, since he had a player choice option, it is likely he triggered it before leaving. If I was upset at the club and had that kind of lever, there is no way I'm not pulling it.

We just didn't hear about it for PR reasons. We pay him, he retires, and doesn't throw a fit in the press on his way out the door.

No other option seems plausible. There are too many reasonable ways we could have used the buyout otherwise. MLSE balking at paying diomande out seems unlikely. We cannot be that budget constrained. It is simply unreasonable to assume the board wouldn't pay a buyout on a bench player. They lose more change than that in the seat cushions.

Interesting… Bradley had the option? Hernandez, when asked about the buyout at the season’s end press conference (I think it was) answered that the 2023 buyout wasn’t used.

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

Interesting… Bradley had the option? Hernandez, when asked about the buyout at the season’s end press conference (I think it was) answered that the 2023 buyout wasn’t used.

Bradley lowered his salary in 2023 to allow more room for signings but they added an extra year to his contract to make up for it in 2024. He didn’t walk away from that money.

So it’s either 1) a buyout in 2023 or 2024 or 2) MLSE is paying him outside of the buyout (which makes no sense unless it’s more than his contract value).

Notice Diomande ain’t putting his hand up to retire. He has another years worth of salary to collect either on the treatment table or via a buyout.

At least in Bradley’s case I feel he deserves the payout considering he took a short term pay cut to help improve the roster. Too bad his Dad was the one that wasted the cap relief on a bunch of duds.

[ag futbol]

I suspect we will see lots of changes at MLSE in the next few years, and not for the better.

I think that will depend on who the next owners are. If it’s someone institutional like Teachers, CPPIB, or OMERS, we can expect a tightening budget.

I think the issue, as it relates to TFC, the telco’s have no incentive to invest in it. They put money into this thing so the team can win, and drive viewers to Apple TV? I think not. At this stage they own TFC for the same reason they own the argos… simply so somebody else can’t own it and provide competition for sports entertainment dollars in Toronto.

But the issue I see for MLSE is, if you look 10 years out, competition is likely coming one way or another. Leiweke is sniffing around Hamilton, groups in North Toronto are sniffing around Vaughan. Concert revenue is going to be split. Another NHL team not out of the question. And on top of all this sports team valuations look very, very topped out.

If I were BOGERS, I’d find the way to sell this thing that gets the most money possible and then just lock of sports rights for the next decade with the teams that still channel through regular old cable TV.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Fede raging at a Juve NYE knees-up! Something afoot? T-minus 6hrs and 57min…

[FiveThreeTwo]

next few weeks will def be key with him on what this season holds, i'll be curious if he even reports back initially.

If there's any sort of hope of offloading him or getting him on some loan future transfer obligation, and they think it can salvage the lockerroom and make the team perform better on the interim... do you keep him away from the squad so Herdman can work his onboarding/team building magic?

Herdman didn't have a problem finding the lockerroom cancers or negative influences around the cmnt locker room from the onset, [looking at Arfield and a few others] and telling them ur not setting foot near this squad/cmnt while we rebuild it if you are gonna be a negative influence around what were trying to grow here... albeit he wasn't paying them what bernadeschi makes lol with presumably board pressure to have em dressed

[Mr. Inbetween]

I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but insigne has been posting ALOT with TFC tagged or mentioned. Safe to say he’s not going anywhere - and let’s really hope he’s bought in this year and going to turn things around. Would really love to see him as one of our poacher strikers at the top in Herdmans formation.

Yea he is committed. He said he plans to finish his contract here and wants to bring it 300% this next season.
Berna has been the total opposite this off season. I really hope someone takes him. Having him comeback is worst case scenario.

Maybe the reason why Insigne is showing this commitment is because there’s a plan to actually divest of Berna. The two have not mixed well and it’s clear they’re both alphas which played our awfully over the course of the year. If Berna is gone Insigne is back in the spotlight where he may want to be. I also wonder how he’d do in a shadow striker type of role. Freedom to move but also putting him in a spot where he can score in buckets. Insigne on the wing, with this team, in this league is a complete waste.

It does appear Bernadeschi, more that Insigne, has the public foot out the door. Still, IMO, both footballers are savvy even though their media personas are obviously different; one being introvert and the other quite extrovert. Remember, Insigne navigated a revolt at Napoli against ADL and to an extent Carletto and survived; even coming out smelling roses! I too would prefer and enjoy seeing him in an accepted and bought-into role other than winger. I think, if he committed, he would thrive in Herdman’s 3-5-2/3-4-1-2 in the hole. Seems though that over the course of his tenure BBradley did try him there a few times and Insigne neither was receptive, nor did it take. I cannot help but wonder if matters between the Bradley’s and Criscito ended better, then the issues with the other two of that trinity would not have so off-piste TFC into irrelevance.

[OgtheDim]

We have a real live league game next month

Others may have been doing so already but for me, tomorrow JH squared are on the clock.

[jloome]

We have a real live league game next month

Others may have been doing so already but for me, tomorrow JH squared are on the clock.

Agreed. I suspect they're going very cautiously due to past fuckups and the need to get it right, based on minimal roster space and money.

What is it, eight slots open potentially? Something like that. Six if we sign the other two draft choices, although I think at least one is going back to school. Then there's Charlie Sharp, and whether he agrees a deal.

I think Owusu has shown significant technical ability at a higher level than MLS, so he might come good with good coaching. Mailula seems a question mark, but the SA League produces some good players and he was becoming a serious poacher there.

To me, the big issues still are Bernadeschi's obvious desire to get out, the lack of a solid defence, the lack of midfield bite and speed .

We really need at least one central defender immediately, a line leader, and we need a defensive midfielder.

Still think we might see them move Johnson and sign Crepeau.