I’m going to put this on as background noise while I pack for a trip. Not worth my full attention but I’ll look more closely if something good happens.
I’m going to put this on as background noise while I pack for a trip. Not worth my full attention but I’ll look more closely if something good happens.
You think it's possible with Herdman now announced he might do some whispering and suggestions Dunfield's way and he could implement them at this time? Or do you think Herdman would almost stay hands off with tactical approach until he actually takes over? Like you're saying now would be the time to just throw anything different at the wall and see how it goes, they have nothing to lose. I don't think Dunfield has it in him to do those things unless potentially prompted by someone.Originally Posted by jloome
I don't think they'll change anything right away, because there isn't enough time for it to take, beyond some tactical advice if he's watched Philly.
But with two weeks off between Philly and the next game, I can certainly see him influencing what they're doing well before he actually takes over. I think we have five games before then, something like that.
But they won't talk about it publicly, if they're smart. It'll mean very little if it has a positive effect because the season is gone. But if it goes badly due to lack of time and roster changes, it might undermine people's view of him before he's made change one.
By having him only take over in the last three games, they have a built-in rationale if things go poorly.... which given our roster seems likely.
I disagree with assessments of Herdman as tactically deficient. The teams they lost to at the World Cup had a lot more talent to begin with, and he's constantly adjusted shape and approach in qualifying and continental competitions. I'd say if anything, he's quite tactically astute compared to the average MLS manager.
Where I think he can probably break down over time is on the motivating front, because it's key to what he does. Whenever someone is driving people to perform above their expected limits, it always eventually results in one side or the other burning out and tuning out. But typically, if they're good at it, it takes four or five years for that to happen.
The key for the motivator type is to leave before the room is completely lost.
Last edited by jloome; 08-30-2023 at 02:06 PM.
I think Herdman is a smart guy so he probably already has been watching tape, hopefully of training too so he can see what is being trained and how it's being implemented. After that he would be better served to sit back and have this as an audition for next season and also see where some players should play or shouldn't play.
Yeah, he's notoriously meticulous. He'll be focusing some of the analytics types with figuring out weak points in opponents, he'll be taking to the team on individual bases about training and improvement, what they aspire to.
I really wanted them to hire a guy who made his bones field coaching and they did. Most of the younger guys -- managers in their 30s and 40s -- who have impressed me in recent years globally have been hands-on trainers. Wilfried Nancy came from youth coaching; Ange Postecoglou came from youth coaching; Luke Garrard is working his way up from the bottom.
I think Herdman fits that mold, a guy who started with the technical end and has learned to motivate as a core tool, rather than assuming people would just be in awe of the boss or of a former star player. They're pragmatic, and they genuinely give a shit about their players.
But once thing I would suggest is certain: a guy like that will not brook assholes in the room. He'd rather play a youth player than a DP with an attitude if that 'tude is so disruptive it hurts the overall effort.
I thought it was insanity what he did going up against the three man midfield of Croatia...trying a two man or man to man whatever that was....and predictably got overun. Same with his man to man on Perisic who took Johnston to the woodshed.
Yes, all three teams were better, so you adjust your tactics accordingly. Thought the Belgium game was really good tactically to be fair.
And my bone to pick with him was also caving into Davies demands and allowing him to take the penalty vs Belgium which then predictably he went onto miss. David is nearly automatic and should have went to him. He would have scored, and we would have taken the lead and who knows what happens then.....and it gets David going. David had a nightmare WC....an early penalty and he would have been flying.
Looks like there will be a lot of him saying arrivederci in the offseason then.
As it should be. Sounds ridiculous but we all know how flawed the last two rebuilds were.
The more interesting thing will be seeing who he can salvage.
Unless he missed it and that's a big stage.
Vitoria should've taken it but whatever, it was early.
He will try with Osorio. I fear he will want MB as his new Atiba.
Maybe he can do something with Kerr. I would say JMR but I don't think Herdman is miracle worker level yet.
Better odds with David over Davies...
Vitoria? He takes them? Interesting
Big decision right away....take the arm band away from Mike? Hope so....but I don't know if Herdmann has it in him...
He takes them in Portugal and his numbers are good plus he is an old head. He's been in big matches. He would have been the safe option.
I know it's a really useless exercise here because we know about how many injuries we have had and for some reason the lower body/leg have been a really big factor for a while now. (Speaking of which do we know what's up with O'Neil after he left the last game yet..no update?).
I decided to go through the team list because it feels like as soon as someone starts they play one or two games and have a leg injury fairly quickly and it's staggering the amount of people:
Ibarra, Mailula (30 mins) , Owusu & Insigne - all 1 game then leg injury
O'Neil - 2 games then leg
Diomande - 2 games then Muscle. Then played 3 games and a lower body
Blessing - 3 games and then "not in squad" (wasn't sure if this was injury related)
Vazquez - 4 games (2 of them were only 4 minutes total though) then his lower injury
Gutierrez- (who I forgot was here) - missed 9 games due to illness when arrived then played 58 minutes and then just not in the squad
Bradley - 7 games before his injury
I know you're bound to have injuries pile up and such but seems quite extensive here..notable mentions we had Hedges with two leg injuries. MAK, Rosted & Petretta with one. Oso was out with his MCL I believe. I can't remember what Coello's injury was.
Anyways, like I said I know useless exercise but I was curious and thought I would share what I was looking up.
O'Neill is in concussion protocol they said and Coello had a leg injury but it happened by an in match collision. Blessing is hamstring. No idea what's up with Gutierrez.
I totally forgot Blessing was even on the team
Philly loves to beat you through the meticulous development of chaos ball.
It starts about the 20th minute and doesn't stop until they have 2 goals.
We can't deal with chaos ball.
"We are becoming a team hard to score against" might be getting a whupping tonight.
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/TorontoFC/status/1697017109216141499?s=20
When the best stories of the lineup are who is on the subs bench.....
(JMR there not starting is good)
(Blessing there at all is good)
Uhre and Carranza against Rosted and Bradley has massacre written all over it.
Hmmm... that looks suspiciously like our most competitive lineup right now, barring the new guys not being injured.
I am surprised. Dunfield has pulled out all sorts of strange choices so far, so this looks remarkably sober.
Oh yeah. Unless we can bypass their press well with long passing, we're in trouble.
If Oso is in the middle, that might work for him. If he's asked to be on the left only, that's a problem.
4-2-3-1?
Philly's midfield might prove to just be too good. Gazdag aside, both Flach and Martinez would be potential DPs here.
Bradley letting Caranza get the ball in our box and thinking his defensive skill can take care of it....
almost as hubristic as insisting on every GK going to MB first
"Kerr was standing still just waiting to see what would happen"
DRINK
A goal?!
There is a player in Kerr. He has been our most effective non-DP player the past 18 months.
Philly has this big hole in their midfield - its weird.
Interesting take from the commentators, that Dunny has said his job is to get them to not "fall back into" the Bob Bradley system.
Don't think we'd seen much evidence of that until tonight.
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