Yeah don't disagree that it's not a license to spend stupidly but, although I'm no expert, a lot is tied to the team valuation (executive bonuses, access to capital, etc). We should be demanding TFC is amongst the top spending teams in the league.Originally Posted by JoesphNdo
This. THIS! So much this! The only thing that MLSE cares about is being a success financially (which it is). It doesn't care about on-the-field/rink/court success, because to them that doesn't affect the cash flow (until it does).
So now that MLsE has a new CEO, maybe he can take it upon himself to take out the trash.
Even less likely then before
a) Pelley's a CFL guy - Manning's best work is the Argos
b) he's seen as both Bell & Rogers and won't want to make a move just to give one side an up - so every major change that the board would be involved in is going to be extremely vetted - he ain't doing a whim thing early or mid season
^
Probably. Yet, KP also, supposedly successfully, since the jury seems to still be out, spent more than half a year assisting to negotiate an extremely complex deal with the KSA’s PIF regarding PGA/LIV. So, similar to the CHGroup sitch, or in preferred investment lieu of, MLSE, business parts of, or investor factions of, may view him as a conduit to another potential suitor or backer for any 2026 circumstances.
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-10-2024 at 11:00 PM.
BTW, it is not understood, for the moment, whether any/all of the MLSE sports presidents will even report directly to KP, or as in the case when MF was in the role, still only report directly to company’s board of directors.
‘It’s unclear whether Masai Ujiri and Brendan Shanahan, presidents of the Raptors and Maple Leafs, respectively, will report to Pelley. During Friisdahl’s tenure as MLSE president from 2015-2022, Ujiri and Shanahan reported directly to MLSE’s board of directors. That effectively made the CEO position one that oversaw legal, sponsorship, and human resources issues for the company, rather than team personnel decisions.’
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/mlse-to-hire-...tive-1.2060702
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Manning’s contract is up in 12 months. Would seem to me like a no-brainer not to renew.
I would hope Pelley has enough businesses sense in him to see TFC is the biggest potential growth asset in the MLSE stable right now. Manning’s underperformce is hurting the team’s prospects. And the Argos are (and always will be) small potatoes.
Nope! ML$E is going to make the Argos more front and center at BMO Field, while TFC gets the shit end of whatever they give them.
The deadbeats have become the golden child, as far as ML$E is concerned.
TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)
I don't think MLSE has ever, or will ever, care much about the argos tbh. The revenue growth potential just is not there, which is all they care about. You can see it in how little effort they put into the team, I live near BMO field and I don't know if I've seen mention of the team anywhere since they moved in - they do less than nothing to promote the team. If I didn't follow sports I think there's a reasonable chance I wouldn't be aware they play in BMO field. Of all my worries about TFC going forward, them suddenly deciding to push the argos isn't there. I could see 'completely giving up on TFC and running us on a tight budget to eek out a small profit every year and forget about us' and us reverting into a Chicago style operation as a valid worst case scenario, but I just can't see them suddenly deciding the Argos are the path to making money
Totally fair. My broad take is we’ve reached “peak” sports. Valuations for teams are ridiculous and not justifiable. If I were a board member, i’d be encouraging the management team to look at a sale
This is not true, based on franchise value alone. I think MLSE is pretty aware something they paid $10 million for is now fetching $300 million (and TFC has been valued at double that). They will not let that team value erode.
It's worth even more than that, at a minimum, it's $500m usd for a franchise now, so we're worth that + whatever other assets and advantages we have on top, which there's quite a bit of
The only problem is, basically none of that growth is due to any of the money they put into the team. They could have run us on a shoestring budget, saved themselves alot of money, and not really lost most of the gains. So while their ROI overall on us is positive, their ROI on the operating costs of the team - especially since Bez left - is horrifically in the negative. And the reality is cutting costs will not erode the value of the team much, since the strenght of our current squad plays very little in that valutation, and our attendance is likely to dwindle as is
That doesn't mean it's doom and gloom, just we should look at this how MLSE will look at this. Just making a tonne of money on the initial investment doesn't necessarily mean they'll pump more into the team. They'll only do that if they see growth potential, return on that spend - it's not, and never is, about how much a thing is worth it's about the difference between what it's worth today and what it could be worth tomorrow (And this difference is why they don't spend on the Argos, despite good tv numbers). If they think spending that money now results in better attendance, merch, apple revenue, whatever than they would get just sitting on their hands. Previously, they believed that, and hopefully they still do, but Bill Mannings black bit of their money and a new president coming in will definitely bring up an uncomfortable (for us) conversation
Some thoughts on MLSE re:Argos/TFC:
CFL/Argos:
- For TSN, the CFL's TV deal is massive for them. Gives them plenty of air time to fill with live Canadian sports (which advertisers love, as people don't PVR them as much). This helps counter what Sportsnet has in the Jays for the Summer.
- Without a team in Toronto (Argos), the CFL TV rights and the CFL as a property are servery diminished, as the Argos get the best Eastern ratings of them all.
- Bell/TSN NEEDS the Argos for the TV property. They aren't selling.
- The CFL has like a salary cap of 5ish million, and a Front Office/Coaching cap as well. So like they spend, max, 15 million on them - one DP. Nothing to be worried about as a TFC fan.
TFC:
- My opinion on what MLSE sees in TFC hasn't changed. TFC is the one team/brand that has ALL the growth potential. Leafs/Raps/Argos have all tapped out on their growth. How much bigger can they get? Yeah, I know, TV deals. But that is a league question and they are pretty maxed out.
- I think MLSE wants to keep TFC's brand strong. I know that TFC has been bad from the last couple of years, but who is really keeping track of how good they have been? True the hard core TFC fans (this board) and their supporters, but to causal fans they are the team that buys big time players. And that is what keeps their brand going in Europe and with Football fans throughout the world.
- MLS is going to have a reckoning soon on what type of league they want to be. Is it going to be a world class league with world class players in their prime or a retirement league with lower quality players?
- There has been talk about working more with Liga MX (there are tournaments already) and I see them eventually merging with them to create a North American Premiere League and I think it will be tiered.
- MLSE needs to keep TFC's brand strong for when that day comes - which I actually think will come quicker than not. The TV money is in the NAPL.
- That is how you get the value up to a Billion Dollars.
- Again, nothing to worry about if you are a TFC supporter.
Thank you for reading!
Oldtimer, I went back and reviewed the news story when Manning's contract was renewed the last time and it stated his current contract runs until the end of 2025. At a proper football club where management are held accountable based on team performance he would have been sacked long ago, but of course TFC is not a proper football club. Is there any reason to keep this thread open?
Because he's not dead yet?
He will outlive all of us.
I was encouraged when Pelley came in but he must be afraid to act, because there can be no justification. can’t even say it was he was worried about disrupting the club because Hernandez and Herdman were in place.
from a Feb 2022 interview…how is this anything but a fail
If Manning has his way, though, the addition of Insigne will be one of the first pieces of the puzzle, not one of the last.
“I do think over the next three or four years, we’re going to add another Lorenzo and we’re going to really push the bar leading up to that World Cup so that Toronto FC is at the forefront of football here in Toronto and within our region,” he said. So much so, he added, that in addition to growing the club’s revenues by 50 per cent over that time, he says that he wants the demand for soccer to get to the point where an expanded 40,000-seat stadium for the World Cup would become a permanent fixture, not just a part-time addition.
As someone who still yearns to add a CONCACAF Champions League title to his résumé – he’s the only MLS executive to have lost in the final twice – Manning is driven to bring his team back to the championship-contending level it reached after his first full year at the helm in 2016
Now then
THIS is the sort of thing that can insure people do not get their contracts renewed
Not going to talk about the incident beyond - stuff like this getting in the news is a worse sin in most BoD's eyes then losing
I think it should go in this thread, because it is so dumb that Manning is still here…. Watch how Shaff gets open and then delivers the perfect cross. #CMNT says thanks.
Check out this tweet at [COLOR=#000000]https://twitter.com/MLS/status/1774249531841950017?s=20[/COLOR]
OG if you want to close this, no worries. But let’s close the thread with an affordable homegrown, whom BB & BM tossed out. #Pelley finish the job.
^It's a good bookend to your OP. The Manning conversation is no way near done, however, he's still here...
Indeed …. LOL or should i say ��
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