Next Coach discussion - update Herdman is now coach

[jloome]

Or 4-3-3 with top 3 of Insigne - Berna - Kerr.

Yeah, that would be my choice. I think CJ and Ayo have their upsides, they both work hard defensively by striker standards, and CJ is good at winning headers and holding up the ball. But we need a scoring threat.

I'd like to see Dunfield try something like

------Insigne---Bernadeschi---Kerr
------Thompson--Osorio--Servania
Petretta---Mabika--Hedges---Franklin

I think Kosi has real potential as an eight. He's probably better than Servania already, he just needs a higher engine. Given his profligately shit passing lately, I think MAK should sit for a game or two.

Run Osorio as an eight-10 and the two on either side as double pivots. If we do it right, it'll let us play between opposing lines and still always have an extra defender back.

[Canary10]

Yeah, that would be my choice. I think CJ and Ayo have their upsides, they both work hard defensively by striker standards, and CJ is good at winning headers and holding up the ball. But we need a scoring threat.

I'd like to see Dunfield try something like

------Insigne---Bernadeschi---Kerr
------Thompson--Osorio--Servania
Petretta---Mabika--Hedges---Franklin

I think Kosi has real potential as an eight. He's probably better than Servania already, he just needs a higher engine. Given his profligately shit passing lately, I think MAK should sit for a game or two.

Run Osorio as an eight-10 and the two on either side as double pivots. If we do it right, it'll let us play between opposing lines and still always have an extra defender back.

Are you assuming Richie's gone with that lineup?

[jloome]

Are you assuming Richie's gone with that lineup?

Yeah. but we don’t know how the dynamic towards a loan extension might change with Bob gone.

[Ultra & Proud]

Are you assuming Richie's gone with that lineup?

I think it's almost 100% he is gone. Too many La Liga teams interested. He would be crazy to stay. Plus we need some roster flexibility.

[leedsandTFC]

Yeah. but we don’t know how the dynamic towards a loan extension might change with Bob gone.

He was pulled off with a minute left yesterday to get a big ovation from the crowd at bmo.

Think it's very likely he's gone.

[ag futbol]

Yeah. but we don’t know how the dynamic towards a loan extension might change with Bob gone.

The best shot we have here is that WC 2026 will provide a big commercial opportunity for the most recognizable Toronto-based player. Osorio will be too old, Kaye is trending downward. There are no other foreseeable candidates for the time being to take that crown. Laryea would be the leading horse to be “that” guy and take all those commercial dollars. Maybe the Canadian market is small and that won’t amount to much but maybe I’m wrong and that will actually be good money. And he doesn’t have to uproot his family.

But if I were him, I’d leave. This will always be here and he could easily catch TFC for one more contract at the end of his career. Go have the European experience and link up with your friend. That would be most people’s dream I think.

[los sonadores]

Kerr is the second coming of Gyassi Zardes, even moves like him. He will always look like a winger, but he has a natural goal scorer's instinct.

Hmm, you might be right. Now if he starts popping in headers then for sure. (But when was the last time someone put a ball like that into the box!)

[los sonadores]

I'll tell you what: do a deep dive into his numbers and some things become a bit clearer.

He scored two goals, total, in his last three years at Juventus, both in Champions League. That's across nearly 60 games. He only started the bulk of one season.

He blew his knee in 2018 and his productivity plummeted, from 5 goals and six assists in 30 games, to an average of one goal and one assist in the remaining four years of his deal.

They moved him around trying to get productivity, but he ended up coming off the bench late a lot.

In other words.... he was crocked. I mean, that's what it looks like.

Until his preferences were figured out by MLS defenders, he was very effective, for a short period. Now, they know what he likes to do, and as he doesn't vary it, he is ineffective.

I think maybe a lot of the showboat personality is a lack of confidence, because he's incredibly talented but makes poor decisions on the field, and always has.

Having said that, he is so technically gifted, I can't believe he'd do worse centrally, where he can get looks from more than one angle and supply other players.

I’d heard only that his numbers declined because it was Juve and he was being used as a utility player (including at left back). That’s an interesting idea that he’d declined and then he was moved around. Not losing his Nats gig though. To be sure one would have to do a game by game analysis and watch tape (short of being there to see those years in the real).

[JoesphNdo]

For those holding out hope, Tata is officially off the table and at Miami now

[ensco]

For those holding out hope, Tata is officially off the table and at Miami now

Looking forward to video of the meeting where he tells Messi that he is implementing Herdman's system.

[jloome]

Looking forward to video of the meeting where he tells Messi that he is implementing Herdman's system.

Wait until he finds out it only works in cold weather environments.

Seriously though, Dunny versus Tata. Ptttf. We'll steamroll 'em.

[los sonadores]

Seriously though, Dunny versus Tata. Ptttf. We'll steamroll 'em.

Hah, yeah… stranger things have happened! I watched the video of Dunfield’s press conference and I liked what I heard. Who knows if or for how long what he does will work but he sounded grounded and thoughtful. And the players sound as though they’re relieved that Bob is gone.

Edit: And funny that when Dunfield spoke of talking with Insigne via a translator he sounded like he was star struck… “I got to talk to Lorenzo, cool!’

[Canary10]

He was pulled off with a minute left yesterday to get a big ovation from the crowd at bmo.

Think it's very likely he's gone.

Wish I'd been there for that. He's been our best player this year.

[FiveThreeTwo]

Going through the Bill Manning method of looking up coaches I came across a familiar name right near Gallardo; Dome Torrent. What's he been up to recently? Seems he's been active but no idea how his teams have played past NYCFC, but I know he had pedigree working with pep. TBH i can't even remember why he left NYFC, because from what I remember they were never that bad when he was there, and seemed more he was hampered by the need to play aging Euro stars than anything?

Doesn't seem to stick with teams all that much (Flamengo, and Galatasaray since MLS, but at least those aren't a drop in club size). 1.3 ppg Galatasaray (20 games), almost 1.9 PPG with Flamengo (26 games), and was at a 1.68ppg clip with NYFC (60 games). Odd one is Flamengo - they canned him while the club was on 15W 5D 6L... Is he just another Martino who likes to float around and be a temp/fixer for clubs? Wonder if his prior MLS experience and experience with working with bigger names, clubs and their training/tactical/team setups puts him on list, assuming they don't go with someone domestic. Remind for comparison, Bobby was 1.66ppg while with LAFC.

If they are willing to pay, and it isn't domestic damn i'd at least break bread with Gallardo to see where his heads/ambitions are at and whether he'd be interested in a project to bring a club like ours back up to the top while he waits for a bigger EU gig - never know

[OgtheDim]

Not that anybody thought of him as his views on MLS seem to be mostly "Nice for the money but when they asked me to work hard, no thanks"

but...it won't be Steven Gerrard

[ag futbol]

I don’t see how this can go well. Anyone who is a strong candidate knows how dysfunctional we are and how weak Manning’s position is (which jeopardizes their own job security). They get paired with Hernandez who is of a completely unknown quantity with no track record. It’s not an appealing gig.

We’re likely get long shots who know they might not get a chance to sit in a big seat again if they don’t accept this opening. I’m picturing someone like Marc Dos Santos or Mike Petke.

Even Caleb Porter feels too classy for us at the moment.

[los sonadores]

I don’t see how this can go well. Anyone who is a strong candidate knows how dysfunctional we are and how weak Manning’s position is (which jeopardizes their own job security). They get paired with Hernandez who is of a completely unknown quantity with no track record. It’s not an appealing gig.

We’re likely get long shots who know they might not get a chance to sit in a big seat again if they don’t accept this opening. I’m picturing someone like Marc Dos Santos or Mike Petke.

Even Caleb Porter feels too classy for us at the moment.

Yeah. Manning in the recent TSN interview said they want someone lively and energetic (how can you be a head coach without those qualities!) and new. So I guess he knows he doesn’t hold good cards here. He’ll get who he wants but he’s set the bar low. I guess it could work… and yes, newbie coach to work with an almost totally inexperienced GM. Sounds to me like he’s run out of budget and board/ownership good will and so he’s going for good results on a restricted budget. Still paying Bob Bradley (which is to say paying for a very expensive coach and sporting director - two roles for two and a half more seasons!) and various ex-players.

Edit: I’m guessing we aren’t going to see any player buyouts either.

[OgtheDim]

So Dunseth made some good points tonight

We need (unless they ditch players)


a) Sombody the vets & Italians can respect

b) somebody that can develop players

c) somebody that can motivate a team that is at its lowest ebb

d) somebody who can implement a system



Add to that, somebody willing to come to this situation

[jloome]

So Dunseth made some good points tonight

We need (unless they ditch players)


a) Sombody the vets & Italians can respect

b) somebody that can develop players

c) somebody that can motivate a team that is at its lowest ebb

d) somebody who can implement a system



Add to that, somebody willing to come to this situation

That doesn't sound like what I'm being told is their target. They want Wilfried Nancy Part Two, a guy who's shown at lower levels he can consistently win with uneven or incomplete rosters.

At least, that's where they were planning to start.

[OgtheDim]

That doesn't sound like what I'm being told is their target. They want Wilfried Nancy Part Two, a guy who's shown at lower levels he can consistently win with uneven or incomplete rosters.

At least, that's where they were planning to start.

I hope that is true because I find it really hard to care about whether this group feel they can respect a manager given they way they go about their business on the field is diametrically disrespectful to the fans (with some exceptions).

Beyond the yutes, there are 4 guys on this team who I think understand what it takes to be a pro at this level in the year 2023 - Insigne, Oso, Hedges, Johnson. (I"m assuming Richie is gone)

[Amir.]

Get Biello in for the rest of the season or even on a contract until end of 2024 then possibly extend if he does well

MLS experience, got to a Conference final and and Conference semi. In his worst season he still got 11 wins

[Ultra & Proud]

Get Biello in for the rest of the season or even on a contract until end of 2024 then possibly extend if he does well

MLS experience, got to a Conference final and and Conference semi. In his worst season he still got 11 wins

I think he is pretty good so I would rather not subject him to us right now. I'd rather let Terry go pointless the rest of the way and get Biello for 2024 when maybe something can be done with the roster.

11 wins is no joke now. It'd take us 3-4 years to top that at this rate.

[ag futbol]

Call me crazy but I think the guy we should be going after is Olivier Renard (as GM). He’s handicapped by Saputo’s stupidity and still managing some good progress over there.

He got Alister Johnston for peanuts. He dumped Kamal Miller at the right time and brought in Bryce Duke. Their academy graduates reasonable players. Give him a budget and let him work on peace and it could really be something.

[leedsandTFC]

That doesn't sound like what I'm being told is their target. They want Wilfried Nancy Part Two, a guy who's shown at lower levels he can consistently win with uneven or incomplete rosters.

At least, that's where they were planning to start.

the funny thing is i think we had a guy like that in javier perez, and we ditched him.

i rate some of the football we played with him better than most of what we've seen since.

[Mr. Inbetween]

One day. Just not today. Now. Yet, sooner rather than later?

https://wakingthered.com/2023/07/05/...ould-land-one/

[barticusz]

Call me crazy but I think the guy we should be going after is Olivier Renard (as GM). He’s handicapped by Saputo’s stupidity and still managing some good progress over there.

He got Alister Johnston for peanuts. He dumped Kamal Miller at the right time and brought in Bryce Duke. Their academy graduates reasonable players. Give him a budget and let him work on peace and it could really be something.

I am completely on board for this. I can't see it happening. If I were Olivier I'd rather be in Montreal under a handicapped Saputo system than the idiocy that is MLSE.

[jloome]

the funny thing is i think we had a guy like that in javier perez, and we ditched him.

i rate some of the football we played with him better than most of what we've seen since.

I know people often view managers by energy level and thus he left many cold. But I agree. I think he'd be a very good manager somewhere. I felt the same way about Kris Cummins, and I'd even say Nick Dasovic to an extent, although we didn't get to see him for long.

The three guys we've had but not kept as caretakers all did, in my opinion, better jobs than the guys they replaced. But we didn't give any of them a shot.

I don't think that'll happen with Dunfield either, but I suspect that's planned. I suspect the real reason he pulled Coello and Mabika -- one is from Spain, the other Kenya, so it wasn't the heat and humidity! -- is that they know both are competent at this level.

Dunfield's tenure is basically tryout time for the yutes and "prove you belong here" time for everyone else. I'm not sure the latter groups realizes it, but they value about seven players, total, on this roster as POTENTIAL starters next year, with even that not guaranteed for anyone.

[OgtheDim]

...
Dunfield's tenure is basically tryout time for the yutes and "prove you belong here" time for everyone else. I'm not sure the latter groups realizes it, but they value about seven players, total, on this roster as POTENTIAL starters next year, with even that not guaranteed for anyone.

I have a mental image of some old locker room hand around the place saying to a vaguely threatened player, "You need to talk to Tone....Go talk to Tone....he'll explain what's going on to you."

Either him or Oso.

[Blindside16]

One day. Just not today. Now. Yet, sooner rather than later?

https://wakingthered.com/2023/07/05/...ould-land-one/

I would give it 5 minutes before Mourinho would reach across the table and choke Manning just for the ridiculous ideas he has on roster construction.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I would give it 5 minutes before Mourinho would reach across the table and choke Manning just for the ridiculous ideas he has on roster construction.

...Manning is too crafty for that. He would insulate himself. Imagine, The Special One taking instruction, ahem, suggestions from Jason Hernandez!