I really hope Matheson can make a go of project 8, not just to create and support a women’s league but also to show a better way of financing soccer in Canada, She was so great on the field but also an economics major at Princeton, hopefully it will pan out.Originally Posted by Canary10
Pa Modou Kah was interviewed btw.
Good! Good rep as a field coach from his time at Seattle and Pacific.
yep, if i'm being honest that's the sort of coach we should be giving a chance to.
I wonder if Savarese changes the equation a bit.
He and Manning were both at Long Island Rough Riders in the 90s, Manning as an exec and Savarese as a player. I think maybe they missed each other by a year, but they'll know each other, I imagine, possible even quite well.
^
My favourite... the demonstrated connect or link!
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 08-22-2023 at 11:59 PM.
https://twitter.com/OverDrive1050/st...uB3cQQAYA&s=19
Sounds like herdman is bill's choice but a real question about whether he'll be in the position to make the hire
Of course Herdman is bills choice.
Herdman is a great choice for marketing purposes.
Im not sure if he's the guy to get results.
It's reassuring that Bill learned from his past mistakes.
So when Herdman fails & gets sacked in mid 2025, do they fire Manning then? Does Conway remain?
I know its getting practically zero coverage, but somebody, somewhere in MLSE must be aware of the fact we sacked our old coach and seem to be heading towards the Dunfield Decima of going 0-10.It's reassuring that Bill learned from his past mistakes.
So when Herdman fails & gets sacked in mid 2025, do they fire Manning then? Does Conway remain?
we're well on our way to losing every game remaining this season under dunfield.
not only is he out of his depth horrendously, the players know he won't be here next year and are phoning it in.
If no decision on permanence is to happen before the end of the season, then maybe a Dunfield Decimaneeds to be batonned off to another interim, for a Stalteri Sei; simply as a measure of self-respect, saving-face or mental-health?
Only three certain things in life, death, taxes and Conway staying here stealing a paycheque as our keeper coach.It's reassuring that Bill learned from his past mistakes.
So when Herdman fails & gets sacked in mid 2025, do they fire Manning then? Does Conway remain?
Serious question, what does he have on MLSE that he no matter what has a job?
The new mister at TFC will need to understand many things...
Came across an interesting Twitter/X thread involving Turts McGurts @TurtsFC and Giancarlo Marelli @ GMoneyTalks79. It was about Football & Tempo that cited and stemmed from a fascinating article by Ricacardo Marchioli @RicMarchioli. Thought it worthy of the share...
BTW, I still hold hope that most of the squad could up theirs to match the Italians.
https://ricmarchioli.wordpress.com/2023/08/13/time/
https://twitter.com/RicMarchioli/sta...73591082536960
https://twitter.com/TurtsFC/status/1694097917190046050
https://twitter.com/GMoneyTalks79/st...15692264501460
The original column is just common sense coaching masquerading as profundity. "Tempo, visualized"?
You can sum the whole thing up quite easily: play with consistent pace and space.
Done.
We don't do either, but it's obvious and has been pointed out many times before
Remember when Ibarra just passed the ball out of bounds in his first game? It was because Pineda, at Atlanta, has taught consistent passing distances for short, triangular support moves. He was expecting JMR to move two more feet, basically. He was so grooved into that action that he tentatively passed the ball directly out of bounds, slowly rolling it out, with JMR not even moving and three feet further up the field.
Our team has no grooved behaviors, no automatic actions, no patterns of play. That's largely because our shape, spacing and passing tempo are all inconsistent.
It's why we do not move the ball smoothly and automatically.
It does not take a thousand plus words waxing lyrically about the fourth dimension to explain that.
Last edited by jloome; 08-23-2023 at 09:56 AM.
Another Rough Riders?!!
Still a force in USL 2!
https://liroughriders.com/
We can blame the CFL but I suspect Teddy Roosevelt is the ultimate culprit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_Riders
None of which helps us find a new coach, of course.
Back on topic...
What I don't get is that this has been a problem to varying degrees since 2018 and never been addressed or fixed by anyone since. Unless our 2017 leftover leaders are of the "we shouldn't have to do this because we didn't in 2017 and won everything" variety.
It's in philosophical opposition to the "style" of BobBall/ Pseudogegenpress.
Armas and Marsch and all the Red Bull guys follow Ralph Ragnick's dictates from Gegenpress, because Red Bull taught them to.
But they're all Bob disciples from his Fire days.
And he believes in total mobility, positional switching, tendency exploitation, attacking from the highest percentage locations.
These are all fundamental tenants of what Marsch and Armas "adapted" into Gegenpress.
But they have negative consequences to teams in which the personnel don't fit.
Now, keep in mind that Terry has said on multiple occasions that he follows the system Bob was developing here, the system they believe in.
That might not always be true of the tactical approach with respect to possession -- he plays far more directly and worries more about transition opportunities than possession -- but it DOES hold true with respect to positional elements.
The problem with that, as I see it, is two-fold.
First, it's a flawed system to begin with. As exposed at Leeds when Marsch used it there, trying to launch 80-plus% of attacks from the top corners of the box is deeply flawed logic.
Why? Well, when a team is overpoweringly more talented than opponents, like LAFC, it can work. The sheer individual technique to play in smaller spaces will allow them to prevail by pinning a team into their box all game. They'll still give up some bad transition goals by always pressing high, but they'll generally score more.
But in a team with a more mixed balance of talent and technique, it has the opposite effect: The other team settles into a low block and the attacking team cannot break them down.
Terry has improved us somewhat by asking them to be more bold and more direct with their progressive passing. It clearly hasn't completely taken, but it's why we generally have a few more actual shots now, if not any goals to show for it.
But he hasn't a) begun to properly employ width, the wide switch and the overlap, so pulling defenders out of position is very difficult, and chances are still limited; and b) he still wants them to employ supportive tendency-based decisions rather than any prescribed buildup patterns.
When I say prescribed buildup, what I'm really referring to is consistency of supportive movement. When players are being encouraged, a la Bob ball, to always attack the available space, they have to switch positions and zonal responsibilities constantly.
If a team is brilliant, it's doable, because the players are already fundamentally consistent: they always move to the same distance away and between two defenders, for example, to offer an outlet on a double team. So the weight and speed of each ball on the ground is the same. So they can always take it smoothly without an extra touch or too much spin.... So the next pass out is the same.
By having prescribed, standard best practices, the team can groove quick movement without having to make as many conscious decisions at speed. Their physical ball skill can take over, mistakes decrease, defenses have to work harder.
But to build those with less skilled or experienced players, you need them to move consistently and predictably in games. The more they have to switch off or drift out of their zone of responsibility, the harder those tendencies are to build.
So we have a perfect storm of movement that is inconsistent and unpredictable, too little width to pull defenders apart, and a tendency to push high up and leave ourselves weak in transition.
There's no balance to it because it's designed to be unbalanced, and in doing so, to unbalance an opponent. But that only works if the talent ratio -- at least in terms of performance consistency -- falls onto the side of the team playing Bob Ball.
So we're fundamentally flawed, and Dunfield hasn't fixed it. I'm not sure from the approaches he's taking that he recognizes this stuff. When people buy into methodologies based on what seem purely logical, rationalized arguments, they often can't see that real-world application is effectively very limited.
You might think they'd have caught on after Gegenpress started being so altered by more progressive coaches as to no longer really be what it was. But Marsch tried to use it, predominantly, at Leeds, Armas tried to use it here.
You might also think that having seen THAT rigidly indoctrinated system fail, Bob might've taken a look at his own, and whether it was too limited. But we've learned he wasn't a good judge of personnel. A guy who can motivate and has a decent system but relies on perfect pieces to make it work better be damned sure he knows how to identify those pieces, and he couldn't.
Last edited by jloome; 08-23-2023 at 01:14 PM.
i'm split on the herdman stuff.
pros:
- built a very good culture from the ground up at the canmnt, including convincing players to buy in, handle egos
- built a side that was defensively far better than the sum of its parts (in world cup qualifying)
- tactical adaptability, has played multiple formations, not wedded to one
- has dealt with a squad with hugely varying degrees of quality, similar to an MLS team with DPs/ TAm players
cons:
- a bill manning idea which makes me immediately skeptical
- never managed a club team
- found out a bit in the biggest games for canada tactically (although may be partly due to talent gap with croatia, etc)
- might try to bring phil neville with him
- is a climber, so if things do start going quite well, no guarantee he doesn't jump ship at first decent offer from england/ europe/ a big intl federation
I think the cons outweight the pros here. Partially because these things were never done with a club team and these players didn't have to deal with his rah rah act on a daily basis for 10 months a year and he would probably bolt at the first sign of either trouble or a better gig.
I don't worry about Neville because he'll be the next CMNT manager. He is no position to ask for a lot of money and he should be grateful for any employment. That sounds exactly like what the CSA would want.
Oh God, is this a possibility? I don't think I'd sign Pep if he decided he wants Phil Neville to come with him
I continue to be way more cynical on this than Herdman deserves because it couldn't tick more boxes of the usual Manning playbook that has been shitting the bed since Bez left. I just hate the optics of it. It couldn't be more 'more of the same', it really screams 'I have learned nothing whatsoever, but maybe this time it'll work'
Yeah, it's hard not to look at it that way.
I also fear what dominoes this sets off for the CMNT if this happens. I didn't love our World Cup performance or tactics but during qualifying Canada was extremely enjoyable to watch. I suspect we don't end up with an upgraded coach heading into the World Cup and for whatever misgivings we might have for Herdman, we'll be wishing he didn't leave.
CMNT to hire Bob Bradley. Starting Lineup, MAK, Osorio, JMR and Diomande who gets Canadian citizenship in 2025.
I will have to leave the site for a while if Herdman is actually hired.
The tone of discussion around that here - its worse than the Vs board, which is saying something.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Yeah, I'm probably not booking off anywhere because I write books, and this site helps me perform my most effective function, which is the avoidance of writing books.
But the sentiment is agreed. I get the risk, it would be his first club. But all the right type of pieces generally seem to be there in his approach, he came up through the Sunderland youth academy, he's a motivator and he gets tactically consistent performances out of players.
At one point, no one believed in Ange Postecoglou, either, because he'd only been an A-League manager and his background was at a Greek league youth academy.
Even after he went won the Asian cup and won the j-league, Celtic fans and commentators were howling when he was appointed there. Two years later...
I'm not saying he's in that field, but he might be. Until someone gives him a club, we won't really know. What I doubt, greatly, is that he will suck.
And right now, I'll take just being competitive. That's something to build on.
It's hard not to look at any coach signing through the prism of it being Bill doing the hiring, and what his typical MO is. I think the response to Herdman is mostly that as opposed to how Herdman would do in the job.
ensco...
https://youtu.be/ujwm8YrEgI4?si=le-c1uao4XcPNiQM
For me, Herdman just reminds me of a younger version of Bob.
But I'm open to have my mind changed.
So... help me here people, what is JHerdman's tactical philosophy? Why should we like him and what does he change from Bob?
Herdman is a done deal
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