Next Coach discussion - update Herdman is now coach

[jloome]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Richie is the guy who told Extratime last week “Get me out of here, anywhere but here”. I know nothing, but that is my guess.

That would jibe with the word that was going around that he had no interest in returning. That was offered to me as "he has a lot of people whispering in his ear about Europe," but it's easier to see him just saying 'nah, too toxic.'

Our dressing room is toxic right now. Central to all of this -- all of it -- has been the Michael/Bob dynamic and the fact that neither of them seems to have any real people skills whatsoever. Wiebe made the point on XtraTime that Michael consulted a lot with Vanney, aswell -- but what he didn't consider was that players generally don't like Michael. They may like his play -- or did at his peak, and sometimes now -- and they may like the warrior spirit. But he's so direct and blunt, like his old man, that I just can't see him being liked much.

Listening to Conrad and Pierce's U.S. podcast yesterday -- they both famously couldn't stand the Bradleys when working with them and Conrad feuded with Michael and Jeff online -- they were both coloring between the lines a little, being nice about his accomplishments but making it clear they're very hard to work with.

He said Bob "demands absolute buy in and absolute dedication." And when he can maintain that, his club wins. But it can't last, because it burns people out. Pierce suggested that had occurred in LA, and on the national team. Both seemed of the opinion this roster just wasn't built for "buying into" a singular tactical approach for total football, basically.

Clearly, one of the issues with Manning is that he's too affable, too naïve about people's sunnier qualities. As I've mentioned to you several times, I think he's a likable PERSON. But that doesn't often make a great executive, not unless it's paired with a ton of hands-on involvement.

Even now, it sounds like he wants Jason to take over football so he can go back to business. Hernandez is going to manage all trades, all scouts, salary cap management, personnel under him.... I mean, fuck, that's basically everything except making money.

But I don't think he's interested in that side of it. He thinks he's good at generating revenue. Long-term, it seems suicidal.

[jloome]

Here is my 10,000 ft take: We hired a lazy salesman who has never been a real leader that has survived for the past 10+ years by essentially serving the leftovers in the fridge made by his processor.

My sense isn't that he's lazy, it's that he's extremely naive. His view is "good bosses let their staff do what they do best," and he thinkls what he does best is make money, not run the sporting side. So he has avoided it and will continue to do so.

It's career suicide at the level he's at. If not for who came before, it would have caught up to him earlier. LEt's face it, we all say we want a boss who will just let us do our jobs without interference, but any of us who have tried to do that have quickly had to learn -- usually -- that that's just now how the world works. Offices are tribal, are petty, are governed by emotion and blinkered thinking as much or more than other parts of society.

His view is idealized and naïve, but it's not lazy. If it works out, it's through the sheer luck of getting someone of better-than-average character whom he hands control.

[JoesphNdo]

There's an element of laziness too, though, in the decisions that have been made since we lost bez. Reupping jozy twice is a good example of this, it was wrong, but it made fans happy in the short term and it was easier than trying to replace him even though that was the right call. Similar with Hernandez now to an extent, but also thinking you can recreate seba by just buying whatever Italian is available and even bringing Vasquez back (that may have been bob). He doesn't show signs to me that he thinks beyond "fans will be happy in the short term with this 2017 nostalgia" and doesn't want to put actual work in figuring this stuff out. That's where the lazy tag comes from for me. It may be off, but lazy is the word is use for so many of his key decisions. Lazy, easy and short term thinking. Fan service loses all value once the team is losing but creating a winning team is hard

[OgtheDim]

I mentioned analytics as good because BB seemed to not think they were useful while ignoring tape as a teaching tool.
It was all "having conversations". Now imagine coming from working with the Azzuri set up & not having tape sessions. Hell, Vanney lives by tape so the vets were probably tuned out too.

[Gringo Starr]

1.2 m plus transfer fee. I really don't know what to make out of a potential transfer, I want him to stay but is he the DP we need right now?

We don’t have a DP spot. It was stated at the presser that Oso is the third DP-there is no way to fit his salary in if he is not the 3rd DP

[ag futbol]

We don’t have a DP spot. It was stated at the presser that Oso is the third DP-there is no way to fit his salary in if he is not the 3rd DP

Based on our current cap situation, correct. But it does not always have to be that way if I understand the situation correctly. If we were to offload other TAM players we could clear the necessary room.

My thought is the obvious move here is to trade Osorio to clear room for a striker. Harsh business but it’s potentially the best option at the moment.

[Mr. Inbetween]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Richie is the guy who told Extratime last week “Get me out of here, anywhere but here”. I know nothing, but that is my guess.

Maybe. But if that is the case, wouldn't it also be, presumably and already, Richie Laryea's more diplomatically communicated agent/private position to the club? Wouldn't TFC understand by now he is already gone? In this sense, IMO, the crafty PR move in the presser would have been to then rip that band-aid off and somehow connect that topic and failure to or with Bob Bradley's departure.

[JoesphNdo]

We don’t have a DP spot. It was stated at the presser that Oso is the third DP-there is no way to fit his salary in if he is not the 3rd DP

Yeah I saw that after. I really don't see a path to keeping him unless forest are incredibly generous with us

[Gringo Starr]

Based on our current cap situation, correct. But it does not always have to be that way if I understand the situation correctly. If we were to offload other TAM players we could clear the necessary room.

My thought is the obvious move here is to trade Osorio to clear room for a striker. Harsh business but it’s potentially the best option at the moment.

Our TAM players are all overpaid though, I can’t see anyone taking one off our hands. The same with Oso who would take that contract with his recent injury problems?

[jloome]

We don’t have a DP spot. It was stated at the presser that Oso is the third DP-there is no way to fit his salary in if he is not the 3rd DP

But we could still sign two u22 dps.

That's effectively the same if they're good enough. If we could pry Campana out of Miami, for example....

[Gringo Starr]

But we could still sign two u22 dps.

That's effectively the same if they're good enough. If we could pry Campana out of Miami, for example....

The DP comment was made in relation to using it to keep Richie but yeah the u22 seems like the only way to get a decent striker now but it sounds like we have an international roster slot issue as well.

[jloome]

If they're looking domestic and an emerging talent, or someone who hasn't had a crack at this level yet, I'd expect some of the following names to be on the list. But maybe I'm aiming lower than they mean:


Alen Marcina at San Antonio -- three titles in Nasl and USL, multiple playoff final and division titles. Consistent winners for 11 years at level 2. Probably a smart pick.


Danny Cruz -- Louisville, mixes old and young on his squad, which jibes. Former MLS winger. Massive success in his first two years at Louisville City since taking over in 2021. Took over an already decent team, made it better. 54-17-21 since taking over in 2021.

Bobby Smyrniotis - Founded Sigma, inarguably Canada's most successful youth development program for pros, career 56% winning record, titles in three of four years at Forge.


Terry Dunfield - Because they're giving him the shot and have worked with him in the youth programs for years.


Carlos González Juárez - Ottawa, CPL coach of the year last year, spent 7 years in the malaga and Atl Madrid youth systems. Coached in Kuwait for a spell before going to Ottawa.

[MikeForbes]

If they're looking domestic and an emerging talent, or someone who hasn't had a crack at this level yet, I'd expect some of the following names to be on the list. But maybe I'm aiming lower than they mean:


Alen Marcina at San Antonio -- three titles in Nasl and USL, multiple playoff final and division titles. Consistent winners for 11 years at level 2. Probably a smart pick.


Danny Cruz -- Louisville, mixes old and young on his squad, which jibes. Former MLS winger. Massive success in his first two years at Louisville City 29-7-9 since taking over in 2021. Took over an already decent team, made it better.


Bobby Smyrniotis - Founded Sigma, inarguably Canada's most successful youth development program for pros, career 56% winning record, titles in three of four years at Forge.


Terry Dunfield - Because they're giving him the shot and have worked with him in the youth programs for years.


Carlos González Juárez - Ottawa, CPL coach of the year last year, spent 7 years in the malaga and Atl Madrid youth systems. Coached in Kuwait for a spell before going to Ottawa.

Danny Cruz or Marcina would be my pick of those guys you listed. I'd also be scouting some MLS Next Pro coaches who have had success in that leagues short history.

[OgtheDim]

If you want guys who's player analysis is NOT based on who knows whom....I'm not sure Smyrniotis avoids that.

[jloome]

Danny Cruz or Marcina would be my pick of those guys you listed. I'd also be scouting some MLS Next Pro coaches who have had success in that leagues short history.

They clearly had some working relationship with Pa Modou Kah, who recommended McNaughton. He's very highly thought of.

[jloome]

If you want guys who's player analysis is NOT based on who knows whom....I'm not sure Smyrniotis avoids that.

Equally, though, they're going to look at how much more success his academy has had than their own. He's an interesting one. I don't think they'd go that route, and given the money he's made off Sigma and where they want the CPL to go, he may not be interested.

[James17930]

I think they should at least give Jimmy Brennan an interview. I don't know if you would be the right fit, but I think he deserves a shot.

[dutch]

I said it when they hired armas and I'll say it again. Steven Caldwell is the person who best deserves a chance at coaching TFC. He was assistant coach of the Canadian mens team until he became the current president of league 1 ontario, he knows mls inside out, he bleeds TFC, a no nonsense hard nosed defender and if I had to give it to someone it would be him. they hire and fire so much lately why wouldnt you give him the rest of the season as a try out. way better resume than terry dunfield

[OgtheDim]

Caldwell worked with the CMNT for Nations League back in 2019 & then got kicked off the staff because he couldn't work with the players - that's a non-starter.

[OgtheDim]

Thinking about those pressers yesterday, some random thoughts

• BB fired very early Monday morning or late Sunday night - probably in meetings with Hernandez & legal/HR all day Sunday to do this
• I get the feeling the decision to fire was made after the Cinci game but was never going to be done until after the NER game - this is just my spec
• Dunfield brought in early Monday morning & shown things - that sounds like Hernandez had sold a plan to BM by then
• Hernandez was board approved yesterday morning- he had a 3 piece suit on and hadn't spoken to his wife yet - maybe not possible Monday
• Dunfield met with Insigne Monday night - before meeting with the players or after
• Bernadeschi just wants somebody to try ideas
• BM is not on a short leash but the board may have noticed something
• I get the feeling revenue this year is not what they expected - shirt sales, ticket sales, attendance, beer
• BM may have got the board to understand that revenue is tied to on field success - this may not be to his benefit
• they FINALLY recognise there is a problem with the ability of the squad to stay healthy - somebody is going to be hired to look at that
• almost sounded like a medical person got fired too
• Hernandez & Dunfield both started the process of indicating this may not turn around enough this season to make the playoffs
• well they got a list of who they want to hire at least
• Dunfield was surprisingly calm - he took his time to think over a few things
• not sure he's the long term solution but as an interim, I'm OK with a guy who provides tactical clarity, uses film to show what needs to be done & uses analytics
• Hernandez spiel about people not being as good or bad as the eye test provides and relying on analytics to make personnel decision is a direct shot at BB & in some ways a direct shot at the MLS coaching establishment
• I doubt we get Porter or another MLS 3.0 coach
• I am not sure we get a healthy proper CF until next season

[Hala Hrvatska]

Thinking about those pressers yesterday, some random thoughts

• BB fired very early Monday morning or late Sunday night - probably in meetings with Hernandez & legal/HR all day Sunday to do this
• I get the feeling the decision to fire was made after the Cinci game but was never going to be done until after the NER game - this is just my spec
• Dunfield brought in early Monday morning & shown things - that sounds like Hernandez had sold a plan to BM by then
• Hernandez was board approved yesterday morning- he had a 3 piece suit on and hadn't spoken to his wife yet - maybe not possible Monday
• Dunfield met with Insigne Monday night - before meeting with the players or after
• Bernadeschi just wants somebody to try ideas
• BM is not on a short leash but the board may have noticed something
• I get the feeling revenue this year is not what they expected - shirt sales, ticket sales, attendance, beer
• BM may have got the board to understand that revenue is tied to on field success - this may not be to his benefit
• they FINALLY recognise there is a problem with the ability of the squad to stay healthy - somebody is going to be hired to look at that
• almost sounded like a medical person got fired too
• Hernandez & Dunfield both started the process of indicating this may not turn around enough this season to make the playoffs
• well they got a list of who they want to hire at least
• Dunfield was surprisingly calm - he took his time to think over a few things
• not sure he's the long term solution but as an interim, I'm OK with a guy who provides tactical clarity, uses film to show what needs to be done & uses analytics
• Hernandez spiel about people not being as good or bad as the eye test provides and relying on analytics to make personnel decision is a direct shot at BB & in some ways a direct shot at the MLS coaching establishment
• I doubt we get Porter or another MLS 3.0 coach
• I am not sure we get a healthy proper CF until next season

Well said.

I also think a midfielder is essential to make this all work. Have said it before, will say it again, the Ososorio, Kaye and (when fit) Bradley is one of if not the worst midfield trio in all of mls. Simply not good enough. Oh to have a Pozuelo working withe Italians.

With seasons locked in this year, the revenue is hasn't cratered, but definitely lots of in game revenues down as lots of empty seats. So perhaps MLSE looked at that..or BM knows they will inevitably. Right now its on the fumes of the Italians that got lots of tickets sold...but fan discontent with BB and him going will bring a bit of new life into the fan's support for now.

I beg for the love of all that is holy, no more Americans coaching. Please. South American or Euro, and that's that.

[ensco]

Thinking about those pressers yesterday, some random thoughts

• BB fired very early Monday morning or late Sunday night - probably in meetings with Hernandez & legal/HR all day Sunday to do this
• I get the feeling the decision to fire was made after the Cinci game but was never going to be done until after the NER game - this is just my spec
• Dunfield brought in early Monday morning & shown things - that sounds like Hernandez had sold a plan to BM by then
• Hernandez was board approved yesterday morning- he had a 3 piece suit on and hadn't spoken to his wife yet - maybe not possible Monday
• Dunfield met with Insigne Monday night - before meeting with the players or after
• Bernadeschi just wants somebody to try ideas
• BM is not on a short leash but the board may have noticed something
• I get the feeling revenue this year is not what they expected - shirt sales, ticket sales, attendance, beer
• BM may have got the board to understand that revenue is tied to on field success - this may not be to his benefit
• they FINALLY recognise there is a problem with the ability of the squad to stay healthy - somebody is going to be hired to look at that
• almost sounded like a medical person got fired too
• Hernandez & Dunfield both started the process of indicating this may not turn around enough this season to make the playoffs
• well they got a list of who they want to hire at least
• Dunfield was surprisingly calm - he took his time to think over a few things
• not sure he's the long term solution but as an interim, I'm OK with a guy who provides tactical clarity, uses film to show what needs to be done & uses analytics
• Hernandez spiel about people not being as good or bad as the eye test provides and relying on analytics to make personnel decision is a direct shot at BB & in some ways a direct shot at the MLS coaching establishment
• I doubt we get Porter or another MLS 3.0 coach
• I am not sure we get a healthy proper CF until next season

This is a profoundly depressing summary.

I don’t even know where to begin. Going to have to throttle back my interest level.

[Hala Hrvatska]

• BM may have got the board to understand that revenue is tied to on field success - this may not be to his benefit

I think that's how he got the Italians and again the highest payroll in the league...promising we'd win...and here we are, again out of the playoffs.

Surely the board sees the connection that with highest payroll in the league, we should be contending....but then again, maybe not.

[leedsandTFC]

Well said.

I also think a midfielder is essential to make this all work. Have said it before, will say it again, the Ososorio, Kaye and (when fit) Bradley is one of if not the worst midfield trio in all of mls. Simply not good enough. Oh to have a Pozuelo working withe Italians.

With seasons locked in this year, the revenue is hasn't cratered, but definitely lots of in game revenues down as lots of empty seats. So perhaps MLSE looked at that..or BM knows they will inevitably. Right now its on the fumes of the Italians that got lots of tickets sold...but fan discontent with BB and him going will bring a bit of new life into the fan's support for now.

I beg for the love of all that is holy, no more Americans coaching. Please. South American or Euro, and that's that.

interesting you would know this based on the 30 mins they've played together this season.

the reality is bernardeschi has been horrific for the majority of the season. the amount of turnovers and runs into blind alleys he does every game is really terrible to watch, we need to sell him the first opportunity.

he comes off looking worse than anyone in that athletic article.

thoroughly unprofessional on and off the pitch. if that is allowed to fester no wonder we are where we are.

if we had a DP striker on the same wages he is on there's a good chance we have an extra 15-20 points this season. very poor roster construction, as well.

[ag futbol]

• BM is not on a short leash but the board may have noticed something

I know we're both guessing here but that wasn't my take based on his body language off the top. His hands are almost visibly shaking, he's struggling to hit a rhythm of what he wants to say, and looks excessively nervous. Now that could be because he's about to face the press and be asked some tough questions but this isn't exactly the Real Madrid manager here facing down a blood thirsty La Marca.

My thought is he looks like a man whose bosses expressed a lot of displeasure and knows the broader league is not on his side having just struck down one of their idols.

[Hala Hrvatska]

interesting you would know this based on the 30 mins they've played together this season.

.

They are simply not good enough players...."30 minutes" or not.

Oso is not a DP level...never was. Cannot defend....okay going forward. Would not be a DP anywhere else, and not a starter on any top team...if he had two good midfielders to work with, he'd be good.

Kaye lets face it is a disaster, especially on what we pay him and gave up. Would not start anywhere else in the league...

MB, come on, horrific defensively and adds nothing going forward...safe rinky dink sideways passes I guess to stat pad....

Combine all three, and the sum of the parts is even worse.



As for Fede....had no quality midfield to work with and no target man. Give him a Pozuelo and a target man to take away the triple teams and he'd be great. He can't do this alone.


As for roster construction...its on BB (and BM)...they made this mess....now how we get out of it I don't know.

But I expect a "bump" now with BB gone...all the toxicity is gone...and we should get some wins....and better vibes all around.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I know we're both guessing here but that wasn't my take based on his body language off the top. His hands are almost visibly shaking, he's struggling to hit a rhythm of what he wants to say, and looks excessively nervous. Now that could be because he's about to face the press and be asked some tough questions but this isn't exactly the Real Madrid manager here facing down a blood thirsty La Marca.

My thought is he looks like a man whose bosses expressed a lot of displeasure and knows the broader league is not on his side having just struck down one of their idols.

Definitely. I couldn't help notice him holding his hands very nervously. A sign of nervousness....am sure body language experts would interpret it that way.

He knows he is on borrowed time. Or at least he better know.

[ag futbol]

interesting you would know this based on the 30 mins they've played together this season.

the reality is bernardeschi has been horrific for the majority of the season. the amount of turnovers and runs into blind alleys he does every game is really terrible to watch, we need to sell him the first opportunity.

he comes off looking worse than anyone in that athletic article.

thoroughly unprofessional on and off the pitch. if that is allowed to fester no wonder we are where we are.

if we had a DP striker on the same wages he is on there's a good chance we have an extra 15-20 points this season. very poor roster construction, as well.

I don't think we really need to see that midfield for an extended period to know it isn't going to work. It's three slow guys in an athletic league. Also, Kevin Kilbane's bit on TSN was RIP Bradley as an everyday MLS starter IMO, it was damming.

Bernardeschi to me looks like a race horse who was told by bob he's going to be plowing the field. He let his attitude get the best of him and stopped giving it 100% but he knew the instructions were stupid from the outset. But I agree with you in the sense now that Bob is out of the way, it's 100% on him to turn it up and show us he's worth what we're paying him.

[Smokecell]

interesting you would know this based on the 30 mins they've played together this season.

the reality is bernardeschi has been horrific for the majority of the season. the amount of turnovers and runs into blind alleys he does every game is really terrible to watch, we need to sell him the first opportunity.

he comes off looking worse than anyone in that athletic article.

thoroughly unprofessional on and off the pitch. if that is allowed to fester no wonder we are where we are.

if we had a DP striker on the same wages he is on there's a good chance we have an extra 15-20 points this season. very poor roster construction, as well.

The comment about the Oso/MAK/MB isn't really that far off base, if at all. On paper it sounds good, but there isn't enough pace between the 3 of them to make it work. I think this is why Servania was an early standout because he was able to provide some of that missing pace.

RE: Berna - yeah not a great look in that article, but the stubbornness of BB is really to blame for a lot of his struggles this season. He was very clearly not being maximized as a winger in BB's system yet he (exhaustingly) was forced into it week after week and his play visibly deteriorated - no doubt about it. IF and I stress IF he cannot bounce back after being better utilized under Dunfield or the next coach, then maybe you have to look at an exit strategy, but IMO it would be hard to dumb him on the heels of the disaster BB created.

[Ultra & Proud]

interesting you would know this based on the 30 mins they've played together this season.

the reality is bernardeschi has been horrific for the majority of the season. the amount of turnovers and runs into blind alleys he does every game is really terrible to watch, we need to sell him the first opportunity.

he comes off looking worse than anyone in that athletic article.

thoroughly unprofessional on and off the pitch. if that is allowed to fester no wonder we are where we are.

if we had a DP striker on the same wages he is on there's a good chance we have an extra 15-20 points this season. very poor roster construction, as well.

Agree with most of this but that isn't a good midfield three no matter what. I think MAK & Osorio could be useful in a midfield four if some thought was put into the other two mids and using players where their strengths (or mostly weaknesses) are covered.

And Berna is terrible and needs to go anywhere. Insigne maybe could redeem himself based on his slight turnaround, maybe.

A while back I wrote Shaffelburg > Insigne. Well Shaffelburg >>> Berna by a huge margin and I don't even care that it's the wrong wing. Currently Kerr is better than Berna so he is nearly a Aketxe level bust.