He/we change formations in game as much as anybody. Hard to say he does “one thing”.Originally Posted by OgtheDim
Canada often plays beautiful flowing football, and for most of qualifying, much of the Belgium game, and the first 25 minutes against Croatia, we created matchup problems and generally bottled up a number of very good teams.
My main criticism of him is that he falls in love with guys (Doneil Henry).
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
any idea when he's coming in?
thanks for this
Yes, this is my main opposition to it as well. Although, Herdman does things that sometimes drive me batty in their own right.
There is no way Herdman is coming as a “Manning hire”. It's not just about whatever Manning might say. Herdman didn’t just fall off the turnip truck. You think he won’t recognize Manning's situation?
Herdman is dealing with Tanenbaum or someone similar. For all we know, Manning is already “gone” and is just serving out his contract as a placeholder (I am quite suspicious about that and have said so previous).
We saw that not that long ago with Ali Curtis when Manning stepped in to handle the Altifore mess - Curtis was gone (ie stripped of responsibility ) mid season, but the departure didn’t actually happen until year end.
Last edited by ensco; 08-23-2023 at 07:26 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Thinking about what works for Herdman… I kidded about this months ago, but now I am really wondering- is Atiba going to be Manning's replacement?
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
The big concern I have with Herdman is that he is used to recruiting and selecting his own players, I kinda like what JH is doing with his first moves. How much say will Herdman want and will he clash with a rookie GM
my 2 cents: I can’t see Herdman coming for the opportunity to work with Jason Hernandez. There would have to be more to this.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
These arrangements are no good. The solutions have to come from the top down and it has to be a full culture reset. Excellence has to be expected of everyone and anybody who doesn’t want to be on board with that needs to leave. Certain people with long track records of mediocrity should be shown the door from the outset.
We need a president that understands what a modern football club looks like. Marching orders come from that person.
Whoever is patching together the current hierarchy has zero credibility in my eyes.
Yes, I told you so a while back.
joking, or in the know?
Or he could be coming because he doesn't want to leave the country while he does want to get the hell out of CSA land.
Nah, this would be Manning bringing another “sure thing” to the board. There is zero evidence that Manning is lame duck, unfortunately.
If Hernandez were to get the axe to accommodate Herdman then IMO that’s (yet another) fireable offence for Manning.
This FO is a joke. It’s clinically insane for Manning to be allowed to make another hire.
IMO, such a move would have MU/LT fingerprints in design.
Regardless of who they get as coach, unless they make major changes in the front office including hiring replacements fir lost scouts, etc, and to the medical and football structures of this club, nothing is going to change.
Feels rotten to its core right now and a new coach won't change everything.
If he does come I think it has more to do with he is tired of battling the CSA and CSB. He can read the writing on the wall on what the next 4 years looks like and wants a clean cut.
I think you're overplaying Herdman's place in football. He isn't like a tier one manager. Right now he is basically a part time manager of an upstart nation that has won exactly nothing during his time. I'm not saying he is bad but it's not like he has the pick of clubs to go manage because he doesn't. Maybe any women's national team and a bunch of men's national teams but if any club wanted him it would MLS, League 1 or 2, or lower.
And he knows this and that's why he would like this role. Stepping stone to prove he can work at club level.
Yeah that's probably the practical situation, but not every fan posting on boards is thinking that way I don't think. Just looks like another Manning Transfermarkt hire.
For sure Herdman probably met with a higher up than Manning but this definitely a Manning hire and Herdman is a smart guy and this is a good situation, almost a can't lose.
To get him under contract he probably forced a lot of years on the deal and at a decent rate (better than CSA pay for sure). Yes he knows Manning is hanging by a thread but I think his position would be safe regardless of Manning because of his background in Canadian soccer and his popularity with the average sports fan. I think if Manning was sacked the new president would be told to work with Herdman. As for Hernandez well, he might be gone because it wouldn't surprise me to see Herdman want that job as well and have his own appointed assistant for number crunching & the boring details.
For Herdman and his ambitions I think it works too. The team does spend and provide resources and that's something he will never get from the current CSA. He himself has built up a lot of goodwill amongst fans and he would definitely get a decent amount of time to turn things around and presently it would be hard to imagine him not doing better in 2024 than the dreck Bob and Terry have shat out all over 2023. We're pretty much in a nowhere to go but up scenario so by that alone, he comes out looking good.
Personally I am not a big fan of this move because I know we could do better. But we could also do worse. A lot worse but I don't see this as a sure thing to get us to championship level because Herdman hasn't shown he has that in him in his career so far. But he should improve us from where we are now.
Ensco first brought it up. Makes even more sense if Herdman comes in.
I could equally say that few people here seem to understand the rarity of the scenario they are assuming to be happening here.
I asked this yesterday - has there ever been an example of a manager of an already qualified WC squad quitting?
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Not sure it's that rare given with hosts they 'qualify' a good 8 years in advance, so I'm sure many have resigned knowing that they have already qualified for an upcoming world cup
I know the Russian manager did it as recently as the 2018 world cup from memory (Right after Euro 2016, again from memory, could be wrong), but I really doubt it's rare. That's a long time in football
Looks like Völler also quit after 2004 leading into 2006, so I don't know that it's rare
Besides, wasn't Herdman openly courting New Zealand very recently for a job there? (Actually to be fair, looked this up, not sure it was quite as open as I initially thought)
Last edited by JoesphNdo; 08-24-2023 at 10:10 AM.
To me the issue is they've hired poorly over the years and HAVEN"T shed enough people. They haven't lost any scouts, just Jack Dodd, who was the assistant GM.
But the 'scouts' aren't what you'd call a sterling lineup.
Most of MLSE's staff are listed on the site via the menus at the bottom. Their scouts have all been in place for at least three years now.
THere was a statement made in the Athletic article about people fleeing, jobs not being filled. But it was broadly overblown; they've had a handful of departures, not a mass exodus.
And we'd probably be better off if they did.
Ange Postecoglou helped the Aussie team qualify for the 2018 World Cup but resigned before it kicked off to take a club job in the J-League.
Like Herdman, he'd taken them to the prior world cup. Very similar situation, really, with politics and association spending a key issue.
The only difference is Postecoglou had coached two teams in the A-League prior to becoming the national coach.
Juan Loptogegui was fired the day before the world cup began in 2018, after telling his association he would leave to take the Real Madrid job. That sort of departure seems more common than it being the manager's choice.
Iran has fired their coach several times just prior to the World Cup despite being qualified, most recently Dragan Skokic, in 2022.
Last edited by jloome; 08-24-2023 at 10:42 AM.
Oh coaches get canned all the time before World Cups. Morocco did it justbefore this last one.
Postecoglu is a good example I think of what Herdman is maybe doing (but I really know nothing about Socceroo ins and outs).
Lopotegui isn’t. He wasn’t deciding to give up the country job and the WC shot for club football. It was an outcome he risked, thinking it was unlikely no doubt, but didn’t choose.
Voller was mentioned above, that I know something about. Not an example of what Herdman is supposedly doing. He jumped before he could be pushed. He was always a stopgap in the German setup.
Last edited by ensco; 08-24-2023 at 02:54 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
From MLSE's perspective he brought an MLS Cup to Toronto, and a Grey Cup for the Argos. He's a winner!
OK, maybe they're starting to wake up. Is ensco right and he'll leave for "some other opportunity" at year end? Possibly. I guess we'll see.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
I think he would have in his earlier days, that’s his track record. Basically take credit for the hard work of others then carpet bag it to the next town over.
Now? I feel like he’s too old and failure has finally caught up to him. So we have to live with his presence because ownership is perpetually asleep at the wheel.
No, but has there ever been a WC qualified squad whose federation couldn't afford to have any friendlies leading up to their WCQ / Nation's League cycle? Or that sold off all their revenue to a sketchy entity that won't release any financials?
This sounds so Concacaf-it has to have happened, The CSA just perfected it
The more I consider the Canada games I've watched in the last three years, and the more I look at how most MLS managers approach games tactically, the more firmly I feel Herdman would be good.
I think people look at the Croatia game and let their biases about the stupid comment get to them. That was a team loaded with world-class players. We have three. Yeah, starting Atiba was always going to be a bad idea, and I think he let sentimentality get to him, somewhat.
But really, it was less what he did and more what Croatia's coach did, which was adjust to increase high central pressure. He had better players and he used them well. That doesn't mean Herdman "failed" to counter him. We just didn't have enough central midfield talent to shut them down. They skittered by our players like they weren't there, for the most part.
Over the two years prior to that game, he adjusted constantly. He played defensive counters against MExico and the U.S., he played high pressure possession against weaker teams, he went with two up top, three wide up top, one up top.
I think he's tactically astute, he motivates well and more than any of that, he prepares, because coming from a purely youth training background before taking on national teams, he takes none of this for granted.
I understand people's fears relative to their expectations; but if we can accept that MLSE isn't going to pop millions for Gallardo, Bielsa or Conte, I'm actually pretty solid with this if it happens. More than anything, Herdman is a FIELD COACH, in his DNA. He's not going to leave training up to other people, and miss the small details, and allow sloppy, basic technique to be ignored.
So of the names we've heard so far, he gets my vote.
I just can't with Dunfield suggesting we were difficult to play against - CBus wiped the floor with us and only scored 2 because their shooting was awful.
We looked like scoring oportunistically a few times but had no freaking heart.
The only reason I can think of TD to react so delusionally is he has been told to be positive no matter what.
Cause a good coach would say "we were not good enough" to that effort.
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