Bob Bradley Deathwatch Thread

[jloome]

I'd consider Hendrickson - Fire wasn't his fault.

Bit of a crapshoot, like Fraser. Don't really know how he'll adapt to having money. Both are better than the teams they've had to work with, by reputation.

I think we need an experienced manager who is a player's manager, not a hardass, and who is tactically adaptable to the tools at hand.

I think that even with the cap and player machinations -- thanks to fair play reg, every team has weird shit to deal with in Europe too now, just much less -- the quality in the league is now such that a non-MLS manager, unfamiliar with the league, can do well here. Yes, it would really help to have a sporting director like Bez.

But I'd take almost any manager at a second or third-tier league now -- Europe, Japan, Africa, I don't give a shit where they come from -- if they consistently win, can command the locker room's pride and fight, and if they can adapt tactically instead of trying to fit pieces to a singular preferred system, even one that is 'total' movement flexible.

[jloome]

Since we're stuck with only ever being able to hire American or USMNT managers (that's the Manning rules) we probably would have this experienced list to choose from in summer:

- Berhalter
- Marsch
- Porter
- Vanney
- Vermes

Ooooof

Fucking disastrous, any one of them.

Marsch would motivate them, but we do not have the quickness or intensity for Gegenpress; plus it's just ugly football to watch, even when working.
The rest are just utterly roster dependent. They're not moulding any group into more than it already is.

Let's be honest, after watching Greg at LA for a few years, where he has more distractions and more personality disorders to deal with than even here, it's clear he's a pretty average manager. Without Seba, Michael and Jozy all being well above the league standard in 2017, I highly doubt we're anywhere near that treble.

[OgtheDim]

Let's be honest, after watching Greg at LA for a few years, where he has more distractions and more personality disorders to deal with than even here, it's clear he's a pretty average manager. Without Seba, Michael and Jozy all being well above the league standard in 2017, I highly doubt we're anywhere near that treble.

Not sure of that as Klein has created a monstrosity at LAG and they don't even have 1 analytics guy - even NER has more.

BTW, I'd put Drew Moor up there as a reason for 2017 - still the big "what if" for me in the 2018 CCL was his injury.

[FootBallAZ]

the biggest take away from me watching the game in stadium was- that the two DP's def do not seem interested in pressing or being the highest up to press- a lot of times it was MAK- this alone should be like a sign to switch it up.

4-3-3 aint doing no favors-isolating the DP's and then having no one run to them or give them outlet passes is crazy- this is basic fundamentals taught at such an early age.

[TheGoodson]

Fire everyone… I’m done. After the crap I had to watch this past week no one can’t justify the garbage displays week in and week out. It’s not getting better even with players coming back from injuries. The substitutes are pathetic and are not difference makers

there is max 5 players from the starting 11 I would keep and the majority is the back line. I hope the Italians request to leave as Insinge will never live up to his contract as he’s not an individually brilliant and was always a complimentary player on those Napoli teams. Bernadeschi is a luxury player on this shit team and not someone who can be the main guy and build your squad around

clear it out and give the new sporting director and coach a blank slate. Realistically in this league you don’t need multiple seasons to rebuild especially when TFC has the money that it has. TFC just needs people who know what they are doing and have an actual plan unlike what we witnessed the past 3 transfer windows

[jloome]

Not sure of that as Klein has created a monstrosity at LAG and they don't even have 1 analytics guy - even NER has more.

BTW, I'd put Drew Moor up there as a reason for 2017 - still the big "what if" for me in the 2018 CCL was his injury.

Yeah, good point. I think Hedges is once again displaying the fact that you can't win in this league without a Hedges/Moor/Zimmerman solid line leader, a guy who is only ever beaten by the absolute best players.

Klein... sure. I dunno. He's been suspended since last year, so Greg is technically doing both jobs. They have a lot of good pieces, but look at the defensive pieces he brought in. Any team starting Chris Mavinga at this point almost deserves what it gets. He has a big heart, but let's be honest, his last two seasons with us were total bombscares and he does seem to get injured whenever he's playing reallly badly.

I think Klein made it much harder on him than it had to be by mismanaging assets. But they still have a lot of very solid players, and they don't have our speed issues. Vanney just trusts the wrong guys.

EDIT: Anyone else wish we'd signed Ricky Puig? I'm sure being in demand from Barca he wouldn't have gone anywhere but LA, but you never know.

[jloome]

Not sure of that as Klein has created a monstrosity at LAG and they don't even have 1 analytics guy - even NER has more.

BTW, I'd put Drew Moor up there as a reason for 2017 - still the big "what if" for me in the 2018 CCL was his injury.

It's possible Bob refuses to use our analytics guy's analytics. He talked at length in one of his pressers about how translating all that data to the pitch rarely works. He did not sound like a fan.

There are multiple teams in MLS without an analytics guy. Someone did a piece on it not long ago, surprised by how many hadn't taken it up yet. TFC were one of the first, apparently. I mean, it's imperceptible from performance, let's be honest.

[JoesphNdo]

Not sure of that as Klein has created a monstrosity at LAG and they don't even have 1 analytics guy - even NER has more.

BTW, I'd put Drew Moor up there as a reason for 2017 - still the big "what if" for me in the 2018 CCL was his injury.

And Vasquez, our MVP that season

I think the general takeaway from me on Vanney at TFC overall was pretty much 'shot about par'. Definitely wasn't bad by any means,but I don't see it as a spectacular performance with the sheer level and depth of talent we had available and I definitely wouldn't be clamouring to get him back in a hurry

I do agree with the sentiment that if we wanted rid of Bob, which remains to be seen, it'd be the most on brand move of all time for Bill "Remember 2017!?" Manning to bring Vanney in and move Bob upstairs. It could also work with what I take as given is the plan which was 'Bob in for a bit, move upstairs then Michael in as manager' to have Vanney in in the short term

But ultimately I think they'll do anything they can to keep Bob in charge until Michael hangs up his boots. I think it'd be an absolute disaster, but I think it's what is planned

[Ultra & Proud]

But ultimately I think they'll do anything they can to keep Bob in charge until Michael hangs up his boots. I think it'd be an absolute disaster, but I think it's what is planned

I would rather they wait for Vasquez to get his coaching badges (if he wanted to get into managing).

[OgtheDim]

...

Klein... sure. I dunno. He's been suspended since last year, so Greg is technically doing both jobs. .

He's about as suspended as a crime boss in prison - he's been facing up to the SAG's who want him fired...in meetings.



Vanney's issue for me is something he didn't show much of here - tactical inflexibility. When here, he practiced 4 formations all the time so we could switch if need be. Its why the 4-4-2 diamond against Seattle in 2017 was such a winner. Something got into his head down there he must play a certain way when his squad just screams out 3-5-2.

[jloome]

He's about as suspended as a crime boss in prison - he's been facing up to the SAG's who want him fired...in meetings.



Vanney's issue for me is something he didn't show much of here - tactical inflexibility. When here, he practiced 4 formations all the time so we could switch if need be. Its why the 4-4-2 diamond against Seattle in 2017 was such a winner. Something got into his head down there he must play a certain way when his squad just screams out 3-5-2.

Yeah, they're getting hammered in the box. I don't think he'll do it, though. He loves the middle of the park. It's why he has Ricky Puig as an eight instead of a 10, which is what he clearly is. He should be doing Almada shit but spends half his time defending. He's quite good at it, though, just wasted.

[FootBallAZ]

I would rather they wait for Vasquez to get his coaching badges (if he wanted to get into managing).

why wait- TFC has hired- a coach previously with no coaching badges at all.

[los sonadores]

He's about as suspended as a crime boss in prison - he's been facing up to the SAG's who want him fired...in meetings.



Vanney's issue for me is something he didn't show much of here - tactical inflexibility. When here, he practiced 4 formations all the time so we could switch if need be. why the 4-4-2 diamond against Seattle in 2017 was such a winner. Something got into his head down there he must play a certain way when his squad just screams out 3-5-2.

Vanney at LAG is a mystery. Here he was the most flexible manager in the league. Not without his faults but it’s nonsense that he didn’t have anything to do with our treble and almost Concacaf win. The difference between what he was doing here and our previous managers was considerable. If he’s a mediocre manager then it’s certain we’ve never had a good one, haha.

It is true that LAG despite the wealth, rep and willingness of players to come there was quickly eclipsed by LAFC (that would include Bob Bradley) simply because the later is a properly professional set up. LAG not only has no analytics but they didn’t even have a scouting dept when Vanney arrived. MLS 1.0, as they say.

Tata is a mercenary. He hasn’t stayed longer than two seasons at any club team. His average is closer to one season.

[FiveThreeTwo]

I'm still in the wait until after summer transfer window to see camp, but I must say that patience is kinda wearing thin lol. The Logic there is that is Bob will have had 2 summer windows, and 2 winter windows to get all the fundemental/foundational pieces needed to play his system which I think is more than a fair amount of time to know his player roster and their capabilitiles, the system and its complexity, and whether the players can fit into that system- and then get us the necessary players to make it work if it isn't (or adapt to the players he's been dealt).

I think jloomes post quoting doyle tho is a numerical representation of what i'm seeing or have been seeing, and it's definitely been my frustrations watching the games even with both DPs back. Every team should have an attacking identity going forward; even the best, most hyper fluid teams have familiar plays/runs/movements, where the manager has started with at least that foundation so that when the team isn't clicking - they can resort to familiary. I'm not truly seeing any of these basic movements or plays... regardless of who the striker has been up front. Maybe i've missassessed Bob's ideas here (how much is Bob an X's and O's chalk talk type of guy anyways?) but feels like in lieu of having that balance between fluidity and preset movements... he wants the attack to be spontanous and generated off a single attacking idea in that moment- and he's hoping the team as a whole rally off that single idea that translates into a goal. Basically - give it to the italians (or richie) to develop the idea, and everyone else flow around them in the moment. Given this is MLS i'm not sure why he wouldn't go for more basic system upfront; preset channel running for strikers, wingers...etc. so that it builds familiarity, then have them express outside the box/creative ideas afterwards. There's a reason why Josef Martinez in Atlanta banged in as many goals as he did, BWP in Redbulls... etc. Sometimes basic movements and chemistry/familiarity in a league like this simply trump overly complex systems built around fluidity and creativity.

Anyways... just how I'm seeing it. If his entire idea is to feed the balls out wide to the italians and hope they can create that thread of an opportunity (or richie)... I think he's gonna find himself in a tough spot waiting for chemistry to never form while opposing teams just box out insigne and berna, and score off our mistakes caused by pressing that excess fluidity when were all out of shape. I'm not too confident that will bring more wins our way lol.

[jloome]

Tata is a mercenary. He hasn’t stayed longer than two seasons at any club team. His average is closer to one season.

He also has titles in four different leagues and a lifetime winning percentage above 50%, one of only a handful of professional managers who can m ake that claim.

I'd take two years of Tata any day.

[jloome]

I'm still in the wait until after summer transfer window to see camp, but I must say that patience is kinda wearing thin lol. The Logic there is that is Bob will have had 2 summer windows, and 2 winter windows to get all the fundemental/foundational pieces needed to play his system which I think is more than a fair amount of time to know his player roster and their capabilitiles, the system and its complexity, and whether the players can fit into that system- and then get us the necessary players to make it work if it isn't (or adapt to the players he's been dealt).

I think jloomes post quoting doyle tho is a numerical representation of what i'm seeing or have been seeing, and it's definitely been my frustrations watching the games even with both DPs back. Every team should have an attacking identity going forward; even the best, most hyper fluid teams have familiar plays/runs/movements, where the manager has started with at least that foundation so that when the team isn't clicking - they can resort to familiary. I'm not truly seeing any of these basic movements or plays... regardless of who the striker has been up front. Maybe i've missassessed Bob's ideas here (how much is Bob an X's and O's chalk talk type of guy anyways?) but feels like in lieu of having that balance between fluidity and preset movements... he wants the attack to be spontanous and generated off a single attacking idea in that moment- and he's hoping the team as a whole rally off that single idea that translates into a goal. Basically - give it to the italians (or richie) to develop the idea, and everyone else flow around them in the moment. Given this is MLS i'm not sure why he wouldn't go for more basic system upfront; preset channel running for strikers, wingers...etc. so that it builds familiarity, then have them express outside the box/creative ideas afterwards. There's a reason why Josef Martinez in Atlanta banged in as many goals as he did, BWP in Redbulls... etc. Sometimes basic movements and chemistry/familiarity in a league like this simply trump overly complex systems built around fluidity and creativity.

Anyways... just how I'm seeing it. If his entire idea is to feed the balls out wide to the italians and hope they can create that thread of an opportunity (or richie)... I think he's gonna find himself in a tough spot waiting for chemistry to never form while opposing teams just box out insigne and berna, and score off our mistakes caused by pressing that excess fluidity when were all out of shape. I'm not too confident that will bring more wins our way lol.

I think that's a pretty astute take. I'm not saying they don't have those familiar fallback set patterns, but it sure seems hard to see them. The only one that they've used repeatedly is the overlap with richie and a central player drawing the defense while the striker and trailer try to finish RIchie's cross.

But there's none of that in the final third build-up. I think you've described what they seem to be trying admirably. It seems high reward it's clicking, like at LAFC, but it's wedded to the right players and we clearly don't have them. Just not quick enough.

[Mr. Inbetween]

He also has titles in four different leagues and a lifetime winning percentage above 50%, one of only a handful of professional managers who can m ake that claim. I'd take two years of Tata any day.

I would take two years of Tata too; a few other individuals as well. Just would like to qualify your assertion… a ‘handful’ of misters, of such calibre… perhaps with MLS experience or realistic candidates? Certainly! And with a healthy number of games under their belt. I even agree that ‘Tata’s’ are a rarity. However, internationally; world wide? I think there are ‘several handfuls’ of such coaches. IIUC, there are at least a couple of handfuls of such managers still active within the last five years with over a thousand matches. With a couple more handfuls under that match threshold with an above 50% winning average.

[los sonadores]

He also has titles in four different leagues and a lifetime winning percentage above 50%, one of only a handful of professional managers who can m ake that claim.

I'd take two years of Tata any day.

I’d be surprised if he would come but if he did, two years might be unlikely. He’s stayed two years at a club team once - at Atlanta, presumably because they were building from scratch. Otherwise, excluding National Team gigs (which are necessarily longer) his average is 13 months per club.

[MikeForbes]

Bob is here until the season ends. Surprised no one has mentioned a certain Italian manager yet though who could be down for a big pay day and roster control. Some guy named Conte.

[portu]

You fire Bob the moment you’ve locked down a PERMANENT head coach. Rest of the front office goes quietly in the winter.

The roster is what it is for the rest of the season (Laryea) aside, let the FO focus on selling tickets or whatever until end of the season.

[los sonadores]

Since we're stuck with only ever being able to hire American or USMNT managers (that's the Manning rules) we probably would have this experienced list to choose from in summer:

- Berhalter
- Marsch
- Porter
- Vanney
- Vermes

Ooooof

I think the American thing is likely (another reason Tata is unlikely). Vanney back is too much absurdity and the others, if they came, I’d probably give up watching, that’s all just too depressing.

My question to you is: if these are the likely options, why are you calling for Bradley’s head now?

[Mr. Inbetween]

Bob is here until the season ends. Surprised no one has mentioned a certain Italian manager yet though who could be down for a big pay day and roster control. Some guy named Conte.

Certainly an Italian manager with a solid winning percentage. Though Lollo has had issues with Conte in the past; water now under the bridge. TBH, I do not think ‘a Conte’ is attainable; and if you’re aiming there, then it’s ‘an Ancelotti’ for me. Unfortunately ‘a Cannavaro’ would be more likely; realistic.

[jloome]

Certainly an Italian manager with a solid winning percentage. Though Lollo has had issues with Conte in the past; water now under the bridge. TBH, I do not think ‘a Conte’ is attainable; and if you’re aiming there, then it’s ‘an Ancelotti’ for me. Unfortunately ‘a Cannavaro’ would be more likely; realistic.

Patrick Viera was good at NYC and a lot of pundits seem to think got an early exit at Palace.

[ronzilla]

It's a new team. It's still possible they could turn it around and go on a good win streak.

Let's see what happens the next few games.

[ag futbol]

You fire Bob the moment you’ve locked down a PERMANENT head coach. Rest of the front office goes quietly in the winter.

The roster is what it is for the rest of the season (Laryea) aside, let the FO focus on selling tickets or whatever until end of the season.

If we’re fully cleaning house, I think Manning would usually be the first one out the door. Bob stays on longer but inevitably gets shown the door by the new President who hires his own guy.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Patrick Viera was good at NYC and a lot of pundits seem to think got an early exit at Palace.

He too would be a candidate to consider; great mention. At the very least he has had MLS experience/exposure. Jeez, with the names being suggested by the community, the list of potential (that is, realistic/seemingly attainable) considerations is certainly not very short. I am not personally convinced Viera would be the right choice, but then again what do I know; absolutely nothing! I thought BB would be the answer; so far he is not looking like it. I truly hope I am wrong.

Edit: For me a Laurent Blanc would be really interesting. Yet, realistically attainable; IDK?

[Ultra & Proud]

I think the American thing is likely (another reason Tata is unlikely). Vanney back is too much absurdity and the others, if they came, I’d probably give up watching, that’s all just too depressing.

My question to you is: if these are the likely options, why are you calling for Bradley’s head now?

As bad as most of that bunch is, most of them would probably do better now than Bob.

But it more speaks to getting rid of Manning too and his USMNT filled roladex so we could expand our search parameters.

[los sonadores]

As bad as most of that bunch is, most of them would probably do better now than Bob.

But it more speaks to getting rid of Manning too and his USMNT filled roladex so we could expand our search parameters.

I don’t know about that, doing better than Bob now. Okay, maybe some of them could get us out of 13th but so should Bob be able to do that. Mostly we’ve been in a playoff position. Had we won on Saturday we’d have been in 5th alongside NYCFC (who we beat last week). It’s MLS and still early on. Three points is the difference between top third and bottom third of the table.

I don’t think the current situation with everything in one person’s hands and in addition, a relatively unengaged upper management guy who seems to be focusing on the Argos is a good balance. At the same time, we’re in a weird American franchise league with a huge corporate Canadian ownership (that may as well almost be American). Hiring Americans is going to be comfortable for them and I don’t expect otherwise

[Ultra & Proud]

I don’t know about that, doing better than Bob now. Okay, maybe some of them could get us out of 13th but so should Bob be able to do that. Mostly we’ve been in a playoff position. Had we won on Saturday we’d have been in 5th alongside NYCFC (who we beat last week). It’s MLS and still early on. Three points is the difference between top third and bottom third of the table.

With our roster being what it is and what it cost we shouldn't have a manager in place that should be able to be get us out of 13th. That really shouldn't be a question and realistically the only weeks we should have ever been around 13th would be weeks 1 & 2.

Didn't some guy almost 10 years say "why can't we be great?" in a TFC presser? Well have we fallen now to maybe we could get out of 13th? Maybe we could make the playoffs in 7th? Maybe if we won matches instead of drawing or losing them we could be in 5th?

[los sonadores]

With our roster being what it is and what it cost we shouldn't have a manager in place that should be able to be get us out of 13th. That really shouldn't be a question and realistically the only weeks we should have ever been around 13th would be weeks 1 & 2.

Didn't some guy almost 10 years say "why can't we be great?" in a TFC presser? Well have we fallen now to maybe we could get out of 13th? Maybe we could make the playoffs in 7th? Maybe if we won matches instead of drawing or losing them we could be in 5th?

I don’t think too many people would be unhappy if, after all the injuries, we were in the top 1/3 of the table. If we got the result last week we would have been. I said that those proposed managers, none of who I think would be a good idea, might get us out of 13th because I don’t think they’d do much more and would not be successful over time. I’d rather see how Bradley does for the first time with his roster, without many key injuries, and adequate time to play together.