Bob Bradley Deathwatch Thread
I think there's been more than enough time to make a fair judgement.
I don't see any answers coming from Bob. Just more of the same again & again. It looks like we're playing to our weaknesses more than anything else.
If Manning wants his job he better make a move and a good one (although he should be shown the door as well).
And drop a Brinks truck full of $$$ on Tata's front lawn.
I guess it’s a nice fantasy to have when we look so poor (although last game we looked good). But this is MLSE. Next season, maybe. I’ll wait until mid season or later to speculate about what might happen but I think we’re going to have to be very bad all year for Bob to be gone. I also don’t think we are going to be bad all season.
I think at some point Manning will know his job is at risk and I wouldn't be surprised if the Italians are becoming restless. Can only let that roll for so long and not everyone will let us play our game like NYCFC did for whatever reason they did.
It seems MLSE has bigger fish to fry. If the many seasons tickets are sold (as they are), the club valuation is through the roof (as it is) and BB’s rep in the league and with Manning is still great … and Bradley’s only ten matches into the season with his roster (also both true) we’re not in the needle moving position.Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud
I don’t know about the Italians and their views and influence on these matters but personally I can say it’s going to be depressing if they aren’t being incorporated into the play well. You can’t have players with that much talent looking that ineffective.
MAK in the post game press thing said that there have been too many injuries and not enough time with the full roster to develop “real chemistry”. As much as I’d like to say that we should be better and a new coach might do that, I think it’s probably true. BB said there was nothing positive to take from the game. Also true.
I declare this thread title very funny.
As to the substance of it, I think Bob has way more runway than this. He has at least the full year, imho.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
It's a bit too early to declare him done.
Losing a match missing several key players doesn't mean they'll pull the plug, especially as TFC has been in a playoff position for some time (may be just under this week depending on how the other teams results went).
With BB you get someone who is inflexible, but when he gets players that fit his style he can win, and he's shown that. I'm personally not a huge fan of his, but he wasn't an obviously bad choice.
No, but I think there's truth in what Jozy said in that article. When he has a mostly young team, and they have sufficient technical ability, he does well.
When he coaches older, more experienced players (us, Chivas, Swanse), his personality possibly isn't the right match.
I realize I'm just theorizing, but they don't look motivated, cohesive. They don't look like a team, much of the time.
Have said it before, will say it again. Fire him (and Manning) right now. He is sucking the life out of this team. If he is not fired, I will not renew. Simply is useless and can not motivate this team, his tactics are horrendous. Highest (or one of the top) payrolls in the league and THIS? is what we get? About to miss the playoffs again. We said last year after that disaster, we better start out of the gate on fire and winning, or else. Well, its or else. Out of the playoffs....look disinterested, unmotivated, and this is at HOME....we saw in Philadelphia how we were overun.
2 wins in 9 months...more dropped points at home...fans losing interest even WITH the Italians...
We are vastly underachieving. At this point anyone could come in do better....the players (apart from his son) I have to assume have tuned him out. The lack of effort on the field screams Bradly has lost this team. My hope is Fede and Berna go to MLSE today, and tell them, Manning and Bradley out, enough of this.
We are wasting Insgines and Berna's contracts with this incompetent Bradly, cut the damn cord, and salvage the season.
This is nothing new, it's more like the norm for this franchise.
Except maybe 3 years in it's existence TFC was always underachieving.
PS: Can we imagine how many fans / followers lost TFC in the whole world in the last 2-4 years?
I mean how many people are still following TFC by watching the games live, from those who have no chance ever to go to a TFC match, because are living far from the Toronto area, or in other countries? Is this team worth to wake up in the middle of the night to watch if you are living in Europe, or in the early morning hours if you are in Asia?
Last edited by PizzaEatingYeti; 05-07-2023 at 06:06 AM.
BB out? Manning out?
Absolutely no chance to happen before the end of this season, because this is MLSE.
TFC will make the playoffs, even if grossly underachieving vs payroll, because of the shit setup of the league.
(Way too many teams making the playoffs - no f.ing reason for more than max half of all the teams to make the playoffs. This setup does not encourage competitiveness, performance at all.).
It’s a shame Manning wasn’t canned with Armas, we probably could have lured Lagerwey. It hope he doesn’t turned ATL into.the Seattle of the east.
Yeh, pretty much this....with the exception that if we lose twice this week to Club Foot, the discussions become pointed.
This now has gone from nearly unthinkable to quite likely based on current forms. I wouldn't be surprised to see us get skunked or get 1 point out of these two.
It just pisses me off so much that he won’t experiment with the formations. Shows that BB is stubborn and will only stick to his old school ways. Atleast if he was changing things around we can see how the team can play in different formations.
Try Anythjng at this point !
4-4-2
Even a 3-5-2 now that we’ve seen Franklin play.
It’s so frustrating that every game we are expecting the same formation and the same shit on the field
I hear the point MLSE is constantly asleep at the wheel and takes way too long to do anything. But, you would think someone would understand our marquee player is north of 30 and we have a roster of high priced older talents who are not going to get any better with age.
To be this mediocre at this stage of the rebuild is a massive red flag.
I actually think this is an unfair critique. He has changed the formation a number of times including mid game. Problem is not much else has worked either.
No formation will help if we insist on moving the ball up the pitch at a glacial pace. The consistent side passes don't help either. Only time our offense creates real chances is the rare times we attack at pace and that happens a couple times a match.
The body language was telling yesterday. LI was pleading with Franklin to make overlapping runs, O'neill was throwing up his arms when he couldn't find an outlet, SJ gave O'neill shit for passing back to him instead of going up field.
Speaks to having no direction and no set identity. Nobody really seems to know what they should be doing at any time and that shows in the slowness, the lack of movement, and the poor passing choices. Also looks like we're under drilled because even a mediocre press throws us into scrambling chaos.
Check out this tweet at [URL]https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1655045660884828160[/URL]
This is starting to ring rational and reasonable…
Check out this tweet at [URL]https://twitter.com/martyn_bailey/status/1655039677211058177[/URL]
Yea he's 19 and probably playing super conservative. There is definitely a confidence issue at this club though. MlSE needs to send in Tony Robbins or something.
I think we have a manager who has a system and style of play that is very difficult to learn. In fact, LA's coach Steve Cherundolo just confirmed this openly, that it requires precision movement and passing.
I think it's difficult because it attempts to be all things. It's free-flowing, but it's possession-based, it's pressing, but it's defensively responsible.
Here's the problem: it's too fucking complicated. With a few explosively singular players who can create their own goals (Vela, Arango, now Bouanga), LA can have games where they're "off" and be rescued by a tough back line and a single moment of brilliance.
Do that a few times, and a team gets confidence. Suddenly, it's winning more than it's losing.
We DO NOT have that player. It's clear neither of the Italians has Giovinco's team beating ability to create their own shit, or they don't have enough other good pieces around them OR the league has gotten too tough for that to work much, anyway (although Hany Mukhtar would like to have a word with skeptics, as would Thiago Almada).
If either of the Italians was producing at the level of top DPs like Mukhtar and Almada, building the rest up around them would be easier. But they aren't.
Couple that with a complex system, and any time we have ANY doubt out there -- HEdges going down, no striker, young midfield -- players become ulta conservative, start passing backwards and sideways, and most importantly LOSE FOCUS AND DETERMINATION.
We keep seeing it. They are too uptight, doing everything the hard way. There's very little quick progressive movement, or looking for long options, or movement between the lines to support rapidly advancing the ball.
When the center is clogged, they aren't finding the wings with quick switches to unbalance a compact defence. When there's space wide or deep, no one moves to it, because they're concerned they're not supporting the short passing triangle nearest them.
The basic shit just isn't being done well. And that speaks to nervousness, tension, and a lack of focus.
That's management. I don't think his methods gel with the guys we've got, simple as that. he's a hard-ass perfectionist who "always tells you exactly how it is" according to his former Chicago player, Mike Magee.
But that isn't working here. We need someone who can build confidence within the team, a manager who is solid and disciplined but also liked and respected by his players -- basically we need Wilfried Nancy, or Tata, or someone of that ilk. Hell, given how good they look right now, I'd take Vanni Sartini in a heart-beat.
When I was working at a job practicum as an 18-year-old student, 35 years ago, I had to cover local sports in Nova Scotia for a while.
My editor, a steroid-shooting ex-jock local bro, saw me disconsolate after forgetting to load film into my camera for an important game and not having art. "Toughen up, bro, don't be a little bitch," he said. "Don't fuck up next time."
Believe it or not, that advice did fuck all to help. I sort of feel like he's a slightly more erudite version of a 1980s-90s American jock/coach. Be stoic, be tough, fight harder than everyone else, just win, baby.
But... this isn't the 90s. Look at top football managers today and tell me how many have the locker room's admiration. I'd say it's pretty much all of them.
Last edited by jloome; 05-07-2023 at 12:22 PM.
To me, lots of numerical repetition doesn’t make for reason here. First of all, who is asking for 2 more years?
I think last year was a bit of a travesty… however, tearing everything down and starting again was the approach taken. Bradley has had 11 games with his roster and a few too many injuries. Frankly, I’d rather see if it will come together than begin again with someone new who will not necessarily make it work and then will need to makes changes next season, etc., etc.
All of those managers Bailey has listed were mediocre to without talent and had almost nothing of a career. They were assistants at best with the exception of Preki who was a good defensive coach but no more… and hence also best as an assistant.
Actually, I think the rational take here is that we’re jonesing for a change because we had all of those names in charge who were all shit to begin with. What a dreadful list! We really should not have been subjected to that except that “the worst team in the world” is indeed bad.
I’m not sure we get more out of this team by damning them now.
I think a more appreciate thread should be "Manning Deathwatch Thread". I am not convinced he knows who to run and MLS franchise in 2023.
Having said that, if we're not in a playoff spot by end of June, or early July, Bob should get the sack, along with Manning.
This team is underperforming.
I was going to add him in too but I think as long as money keeps coming in, MLSE will keep him.
The only hope is for Manning to feel his seat becoming real hot so he hands the whole footballing operations to a person who can do the job and that has done it before in the recent era of MLS. But since he would be picking that person it would be another USMNT retread like Berhalter or worse, Kreis.
To me, throwing away last year just raised my expectations of 2023. It felt excessively wasteful but was allegedly done to accelerate our rebuild.
As for the rebuild itself, it really feels like 1) over-zealously throwing assets in the garbage because guys didn’t fit Bradley’s system. Then finding out Bradley’s system isn’t a value add to begin with 2) short term fixes that really feel more like an attempt to try and win now rather than build for the future.
Overall, it all feels so ineffective that we’d basically be insulting Bob and ourselves not to fire him.
I suppose I’d rather see if Bradley can sort it out given more time instead of a coaching change now. (Of course this is a highly speculative exercise because in reality he’s going nowhere.) And don’t forget that a change of coach means a change of sporting director unless we want Bill Manning in that role. So, a long search for one perfect person or for two people that approve of each other and can work together… meanwhile the team is possibly dead in the water.
Very few teams in MLS have DPs and key players out and succeed. Even when they’re as balanced as can be, they’re unbalanced. Arena goes from record points to the basement, and now back again in 3 seasons because of what in most leagues would be not major, not insurmountable sales. So, for now, I’ll go with MAKs assessment that they have no real chemistry because they haven’t had the full roster together long enough.
If we look at the 2nd half last night: Insigne, 2nd full game; Dio, still no full games; Sapong, just arrived. Servania, arrived into the season after not playing much; Coello, only a few career starts; Kobe, 2nd career start; O’Neil, 45 mins only this season before being injured and giving way to Maibike who arrived last week, Rosted, new this season; Johnson, new this season. Hedges and Petretta disappearing in the warm up. Petretta we replaced with a rookie well enough but Hedges, no surprise there. I think there is a legit case here.
It’s also plausible that, as JLoome and others have speculated, the system is too complicated and rigid and doesn’t enough suit our players. But that’s not certain yet and how long does it take our upper management to make the correct choices and right the ship? Probably, a relatively long time. I think I’d much rather see what Bob does this season.
As for Tata, I remember well that he left the league saying that it was too much work at his age and he wanted a quieter Nats gig. Doesn’t sound to me like TFC is a good fit. Also, even if he did come he’s no magic bullet. He has his preferences which would take time to sort out, including the roster. And how long would he stay in cold Toronto with Manning and Co. to work with? Probably not long.
This is a solid assessment. The injury piece can't be overlooked.
We played the first 9 games without Insigne or any #9. Basically it was Berna up front and then musical chairs for who was next to him.
Midfield has been total musical chairs aside from Kaye. I actually thought MB and Kaye had some chemistry going then that got canned.
Defense has been our most consistent and not surprisingly is really our only bright spot this season. Even then we've now had bad luck with Hedges and Petretta going down.
I look forward to seeing who gets injured in warm up on Tuesday...
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