Bob Bradley Deathwatch Thread

[Kiwi10]

Given injuries are one mitigating factor in how Bob might be assessed I took a look at the league injury report from this weekend. Not the perfect measuring stick as it's just a snapshot in time, but I couldn't find a straight summary of MLS games lost to injury this season.

TFC currently has 4 players out and 2 questionable, which is bottom 3rd of the league, but not a significant outlier. 10 teams have as many or more injured.

2 of those teams, ATL & NER are still doing quite well.
SKC & NYRB are awful.
The rest are in the same 11-14 pt range.

Not sure we can draw significant conclusions other than injuries will hurt in this league, but good teams, with strong coaching can can overcome.

Bob assembled a team relying on some older core players while shipping out some young cover. Injuries are unfortunate, but shouldn't be unexpected. I don't think our injury problems are worthy of a free pass.


Data Summary - https://imgur.com/a/ZAc2qDI
Source Data - https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mlsso...-injury-report
(couldn't figure out the picture upload)

[jloome]

Call me crazy, but if we HAD to hire a former manager (which I don’t think we should do) this is the route I’d take. Players coach, got the most out of the guys he had to work with in adverse circumstances with very little support from management.

The only other decent option is Vanney and think that’s just too much recent history. TFC needs a little more of a fresh look.

He wouldn't come back.

When he agreed to take the interim job, someone at TFC promised him they'd get his wife permission to work in Canada, as she didn't want to give up her career. Nurse, I think, but that might be wrong.

Of course, they were just blowing smoke up his ass to get him to take the interim role.

So when the season ended and they rold him a) we're not sure you're the guy, you're going to have to compete for the job and b) we can't guarantee your wife a work visa, he rightfully told them to fuck right off.

Given how he'd been quite successful as a youth coach before moving here, I imagine the whole episode cost him quite dearly.

He was a good manager. He didn't have long, but he turned around Carver's mess almost instantly. I think he was a game above 500 in the end, with a fucking terrible team.

But I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed. Besides, at this point, the league is bigger, tougher, faster etc.

[ag futbol]

He wouldn't come back.

When he agreed to take the interim job, someone at TFC promised him they'd get his wife permission to work in Canada, as she didn't want to give up her career. Nurse, I think, but that might be wrong.

Of course, they were just blowing smoke up his ass to get him to take the interim role.

So when the season ended and they rold him a) we're not sure you're the guy, you're going to have to compete for the job and b) we can't guarantee your wife a work visa, he rightfully told them to fuck right off.

Given how he'd been quite successful as a youth coach before moving here, I imagine the whole episode cost him quite dearly.

He was a good manager. He didn't have long, but he turned around Carver's mess almost instantly. I think he was a game above 500 in the end, with a fucking terrible team.

But I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed. Besides, at this point, the league is bigger, tougher, faster etc.

Those people who screwed him at TFC are long gone now. Also, foreign Nurses seem to have recently been granted more pathways to easily work in Canada (give our crisis in healthcare)

But this is all blowing smoke. We’d all agree we should look elsewhere. And you’re probably right, it might be such a sour taste he’d never want to see this place again. There’s at least one city I feel that way about, on account of a former boss/ employer.

[jloome]

Bob's not going anywhere.

My little bird in the front office tells me they put this all down to injuries and bad luck, basically. The positive defensive trend is enough to convince them that if everyone is healthy they'll win games.

Having said that, they are concerned about tactical flexibilty. Mostly, though, they think this is the players underperforming. They believe the backups and youth aren't playing to their potential.

They also see there being a lot of season left to get back on track and that once Michael Bradley, Matt Hedges and Jonathan Osorio are back, we'll be competitive again.

So... I'd have to say they're in a state of total denial at this point. They haven't made any of the logical connections between motivation, drilling and wider team performance. They haven't looked at the longer-term picture of how his record compares with other TFC managers. They aren't relating the statistical underperformance to the tactics.

If I were to guess -- and this is just a guess, not sourced info -- Bill has sold the board on this being THE GUY, and will back him until he has no choice, or Bob forces his hand by saying or doing something fire-able.

As for our injured players:

-- Michael Bradley pulled his hamstring, that's why it's taking so long
-- Matt Hedges pulled his groin muscle in training after the concussion protocol game, so it's a different injury
-- Osorio has a "contact knee injury"; that one seems weird, as you'd think a bruised knee is a few days, tops.

[Ultra & Proud]

Bob's not going anywhere.

My little bird in the front office tells me they put this all down to injuries and bad luck, basically. The positive defensive trend is enough to convince them that if everyone is healthy they'll win games.

Having said that, they are concerned about tactical flexibilty. Mostly, though, they think this is the players underperforming. They believe the backups and youth aren't playing to their potential.

They also see there being a lot of season left to get back on track and that once Michael Bradley, Matt Hedges and Jonathan Osorio are back, we'll be competitive again.

So... I'd have to say they're in a state of total denial at this point. They haven't made any of the logical connections between motivation, drilling and wider team performance. They haven't looked at the longer-term picture of how his record compares with other TFC managers. They aren't relating the statistical underperformance to the tactics.

If I were to guess -- and this is just a guess, not sourced info -- Bill has sold the board on this being THE GUY, and will back him until he has no choice, or Bob forces his hand by saying or doing something fire-able.

As for our injured players:

-- Michael Bradley pulled his hamstring, that's why it's taking so long
-- Matt Hedges pulled his groin muscle in training after the concussion protocol game, so it's a different injury
-- Osorio has a "contact knee injury"; that one seems weird, as you'd think a bruised knee is a few days, tops.

Michael off to London for hamstring surgery so he is probably done. Which makes me wonder if he had something brewing he was trying work back from, heard his Dad is on the way out and said screw it, do the surgery.

Also Jessie Marsch has been buzzing around MLS stadiums this past week. Possible that Bob moves upstairs and brings his guy in?

[jloome]

Michael off to London for hamstring surgery so he is probably done. Which makes me wonder if he had something brewing he was trying work back from, heard his Dad is on the way out and said screw it, do the surgery.

Also Jessie Marsch has been buzzing around MLS stadiums this past week. Possible that Bob moves upstairs and brings his guy in?

I have no info on any outside interest at all. My sense is that they're going to push Bob as the guy for as long as is humanly possible, as the injury situation is something they can take to the board as a mitigating factor.

He has people to answer to, even if we rarely hear from them.

Part of the issue is that the front office seems to be largely results based, with respect to their opinions. So they're not really seeing cause-and-effect beyond what's obvious: lots of injuries, tough to win games.

The fact that we weren't winning games before that, because our offensive output is inept, is lost on them, I believe. Insigne and Bernardeschi's poor performances recently are lost on them.

Michael getting surgery doesn't really clarify anything. It seriously impacts my source's arguments -- but so do numerous factors. And if he's out for months and they want to can Bob, Bob's going to have a built-in narrative of "they fired me when injuries were the problem", which Bill will know could affect the weight of his argument to the board about the necessity of the firing, and consequently his own position.

[Ultra & Proud]

Michael getting surgery doesn't really clarify anything. It seriously impacts my source's arguments -- but so do numerous factors. And if he's out for months and they want to can Bob, Bob's going to have a built-in narrative of "they fired me when injuries were the problem", which Bill will know could affect the weight of his argument to the board about the necessity of the firing, and consequently his own position.

True but it would make it easier for Bob to transition to upstairs and make all the injuries someone else's problem.

I wish they were results based. We were actually worse with our main players back. I can see hinging some excuses on the loss of MB & MH but they weren't and won't be the solution to us scoring no goals. Osorio maybe but not this season and if that's where the excuses lie then we need MB to re-do that speach about having no excuses and needing more men.

[jloome]

True but it would make it easier for Bob to transition to upstairs and make all the injuries someone else's problem.

I wish they were results based. We were actually worse with our main players back. I can see hinging some excuses on the loss of MB & MH but they weren't and won't be the solution to us scoring no goals. Osorio maybe but not this season and if that's where the excuses lie then we need MB to re-do that speach about having no excuses and needing more men.

You keep bringing up Bob going upstairs; I don't know where this idea is coming from.

They want him because of his past record as a coach. They have zero interest, as far as I can tell, in making him an executive.

You'd be much more likely to see Justin Morrow in that sort of role than Bob. Someone internal, they know and trust, who has done well for them in a corporate role already.

I really don't think Bob will ever go "upstairs" on his own. This is a sink-or-swim deal. They're just going to give him as long as possible to reach shore before declaring him lost at sea.

[Ultra & Proud]

You keep bringing up Bob going upstairs; I don't know where this idea is coming from.

They want him because of his past record as a coach. They have zero interest, as far as I can tell, in making him an executive.

He is currently in a dual role position I think. I was referring to dropping the on field one and sticking to the other. Not adding anything new or promoting.

[ag futbol]

Michael off to London for hamstring surgery so he is probably done. Which makes me wonder if he had something brewing he was trying work back from, heard his Dad is on the way out and said screw it, do the surgery.

Also Jessie Marsch has been buzzing around MLS stadiums this past week. Possible that Bob moves upstairs and brings his guy in?

The Mo Johnston special. Once you’ve filled the room with turds, leave the room and have your replacement step in them. Look down from the top and prolong your lifespan.

[leedsandTFC]

at a certain point the injuries are inevitable when you have so many 30+ players though...

[JoesphNdo]

at a certain point the injuries are inevitable when you have so many 30+ players though...

Indeed, and, their impact is accentuated when you have bloated the cap too much to afford any decent backup. There's luck involved, but this is also a circumstance of roster construction choices, too.

[jloome]

He is currently in a dual role position I think. I was referring to dropping the on field one and sticking to the other. Not adding anything new or promoting.

Ah, I see, I thought you meant replacing Manning.

I don't think they'd leave him as just GM. They hired him for his coaching, and getting to run his own shows in terms of player acquisition was part of the deal.

Given how that's gone... I mean, he has no track record whatsoever as a sports director or GM. They took a gamble in this instance and so far it hasn't paid off, at all, as none of Bob's signings (Jimenez, Kaye) have really panned out.

I don't think they'll go that route. It's possible as a lazy compromise to getting an entirely new manager, but... I doubt it. That's the Mo Johnston move, and the last time we did that, we just ended up with a disastrous GM hiring a string of disastrous managers.

[jloome]

at a certain point the injuries are inevitable when you have so many 30+ players though...

This is an issue I'll bring up with my source, as the front office really believes -- this was specified -- that the 2016-2018 team worked best with 14 core players, the starters plus three good subs.

That's what they are trying to do now. Specifically.

Given that our starting 11s average age is three years older than the 2017 starting 11, it seems an insane gamble. "Oh, all 11 will stay healthy most of the time." "We were counting on our young players and subs stepping up," I was basically told.

But I'm trying to be polite and considerate in dealing with sources, as they have jobs involved and on the line. It's not a lark to them, for anyone assuming that. They are putting thought into this stuff. But most of it seems to revolve around justification for existing decisions.

My suspicion is that my sources do not wish to discuss the fact that they had no cap space set aside for a broader alternative with more player options.

[ag futbol]

This is an issue I'll bring up with my source, as the front office really believes -- this was specified -- that the 2016-2018 team worked best with 14 core players, the starters plus three good subs.

That's what they are trying to do now. Specifically.

Given that our starting 11s average age is three years older than the 2017 starting 11, it seems an insane gamble. "Oh, all 11 will stay healthy most of the time." "We were counting on our young players and subs stepping up," I was basically told.

But I'm trying to be polite and considerate in dealing with sources, as they have jobs involved and on the line. It's not a lark to them, for anyone assuming that. They are putting thought into this stuff. But most of it seems to revolve around justification for existing decisions.

My suspicion is that my sources do not wish to discuss the fact that they had no cap space set aside for a broader alternative with more player options.

Crazy logic from the FO regarding the rotation. Football has changed too with widespread adoption of the press and the increased availability of subs.

It would appear to me some teams are asking guys to go max tilt for 45-70 minutes full well knowing the reinforcements is coming on.

[SenorDingDong]

Michael off to London for hamstring surgery so he is probably done. Which makes me wonder if he had something brewing he was trying work back from, heard his Dad is on the way out and said screw it, do the surgery.

Also Jessie Marsch has been buzzing around MLS stadiums this past week. Possible that Bob moves upstairs and brings his guy in?

How does stuff like this work in the league. In nhl you place them on long term injured reserve and their cap hit is freed up.

If MB is getting surgery I mean he's basically done for the season...

[jloome]

Crazy logic from the FO regarding the rotation. Football has changed too with widespread adoption of the press and the increased availability of subs.

It would appear to me some teams are asking guys to go max tilt for 45-70 minutes full well knowing the reinforcements is coming on.

There is precedent for it. Bielsa and his various disciples favor shorter rosters when taking over as it makes a team buy-in to an approach easier to manage, and less time is spent developing assets you mostly won't use. For that reason, Bielsa favors an 18-man roster (!) and insisted on it at Leeds... which probably is a big part of why Paddy Bamford is basically washed up now. He just got overused for several seasons, injured over and over, and now has lost most of his second gear.

I think it's pretty old fashioned and reductive, but... we're not talking about young and cutting edge here, so it may be the case they thought the same.

[Mr. Inbetween]

How does stuff like this work in the league. In nhl you place them on long term injured reserve and their cap hit is freed up. If MB is getting surgery I mean he's basically done for the season...

IIUC, yes, if done for the rest of the season, TFC may claim/get cap relief to then spend by the next window.

[portu]

This is an issue I'll bring up with my source, as the front office really believes -- this was specified -- that the 2016-2018 team worked best with 14 core players, the starters plus three good subs.

That's what they are trying to do now. Specifically.

Given that our starting 11s average age is three years older than the 2017 starting 11, it seems an insane gamble. "Oh, all 11 will stay healthy most of the time." "We were counting on our young players and subs stepping up," I was basically told.

But I'm trying to be polite and considerate in dealing with sources, as they have jobs involved and on the line. It's not a lark to them, for anyone assuming that. They are putting thought into this stuff. But most of it seems to revolve around justification for existing decisions.

My suspicion is that my sources do not wish to discuss the fact that they had no cap space set aside for a broader alternative with more player options.

First of all, your posts have been the most insightful TFC read I have had in very long. Thank you greatly.

Second, I'm wondering where the motivation lies for sources to essentially divulge what a shitshow this is?

[jloome]

First of all, your posts have been the most insightful TFC read I have had in very long. Thank you greatly.

Second, I'm wondering where the motivation lies for sources to essentially divulge what a shitshow this is?

Well, some people aren't going to want to hear it, but I think some of them are really trying. There's just communications dysfunction and corporate scope getting in the way.

The person telling me this stuff, too, doesn't see it as a shitshow. They're looking optimistically to when we have EVERYONE healthy and that we'll start winning regularly when that happens.

They are buying, I suspect, the narrative the team staff are selling them.

[Ultra & Proud]

The person telling me this stuff, too, doesn't see it as a shitshow. They're looking optimistically to when we have EVERYONE healthy and that we'll start winning regularly when that happens.

They are buying, I suspect, the narrative the team staff are selling them.

Didn't they say the same thing with Curtis but added in "gelling" along with the usual injury excuse?

I can see it now; things stumble along like this until the LC break.

"We'll have everyone back healthy and make a charge in these 12 matches before the playoffs".

Same things happen and we bomb out.

"With all these injuries we didn't have time to gel. Next season we'll hit the ground running".

Repeat cycle.

[SenorDingDong]

Well, some people aren't going to want to hear it, but I think some of them are really trying. There's just communications dysfunction and corporate scope getting in the way.

The person telling me this stuff, too, doesn't see it as a shitshow. They're looking optimistically to when we have EVERYONE healthy and that we'll start winning regularly when that happens.

They are buying, I suspect, the narrative the team staff are selling them.

The injury narrative isn't totally wrong though. I'm not convinced at all by Bob but if you look at those first 7-8 games. We are defensively solid but struggle to score goals. We had no #9 and no Insigne. It was musical chairs for who played beside Bernie.

I'm pretty comfortable saying if we had Sapong and Insigne since game 1 playing all those games we pick up more points.

Now are injuries are just a total gong show but do I feel Bob is also not getting this team motivated.

[burlington Red]

I believe he'd be a $1-2 million a year coach, minimum. So they might not do it on that basis alone. But he, or someone just like him, is what we need: someone with a superb international track record who is above all able to handle a disparate dressing room and will adapt his demands to it.

I mean, I'd be up for Bielsa if I didn't think man-to-man football in this league would destroy us with injuries and fatigue. Again, beloved wherever he works. People in Leeds would elect him mayor, if he ran.

word is he's about to be announced as new Uruguay manager.

[benito]

word is he's about to be announced as new Uruguay manager.

it has been confirmed

[Richard]

First of all, your posts have been the most insightful TFC read I have had in very long. Thank you greatly.

Second, I'm wondering where the motivation lies for sources to essentially divulge what a shitshow this is?

Jloome having an inside source is one of the best thing to happen on these boards.

Hats off to Jloome for unofficially working the TFC beat.

[Ultra & Proud]

Jloome having an inside source is one of the best thing to happen on these boards.

Hats off to Jloome for unofficially working the TFC beat.

Our only real reporter for TFC.

The rest are just glorified advertisers sending out approved messages.

[jloome]

Our only real reporter for TFC.

The rest are just glorified advertisers sending out approved messages.

Cheers boys but I'm really not doing anything special. I emailed someone, they told me some stuff. Basically it. Most people are actually quite polite and helpful if people just ask nicely and have relevant questions.

Having said that, I sent them a long list of supporters' concerns culled off the various boards yesterday and expect I won't hear anything else. They can't really agree with any of it even privately, because they don't know me well enough to be sure I won't embarrass them. And most of the list seemed pretty obvious and logical to me, so it's hard to argue we're wrong.

To me, just getting leaks about stuff that might be dysfunctional isn't really the point; it's more about conveying how frustrated we are and why. They won't really do anything if they don't understand the scope of the problem.

So I wouldn't expect any more info drips.

[Ultra & Proud]

Cheers boys but I'm really not doing anything special. I emailed someone, they told me some stuff. Basically it. Most people are actually quite polite and helpful if people just ask nicely and have relevant questions.

Having said that, I sent them a long list of supporters' concerns culled off the various boards yesterday and expect I won't hear anything else. They can't really agree with any of it even privately, because they don't know me well enough to be sure I won't embarrass them. And most of the list seemed pretty obvious and logical to me, so it's hard to argue we're wrong.

To me, just getting leaks about stuff that might be dysfunctional isn't really the point; it's more about conveying how frustrated we are and why. They won't really do anything if they don't understand the scope of the problem.

So I wouldn't expect any more info drips.

At least after this week they should know exactly how bad they are and how bad it is for us too.

A wake up call enough for Bob to change his tactics to something more straighforward & direct to get things flowing or stay stubborn and inflexible and be happy with our 2-3 chances per match?

I'm going to go with the latter.

[JoesphNdo]

Cheers boys but I'm really not doing anything special. I emailed someone, they told me some stuff. Basically it..

The fact that that, genuinely, is significantly more than I'd expect out of any "reporter" on the beat for TFC says it all about the media we have on this team unfortunately says alot

[jloome]

The fact that that, genuinely, is significantly more than I'd expect out of any "reporter" on the beat for TFC says it all about the media we have on this team unfortunately says alot

I shit on them more than anyone but it's really a state of the industry thing. TV news was never designed to provide anything more than spot coverage, as it needs images to sell its best stories, and the most important stories often aren't compellingly visual.

Newspapers have no ad space monopoly anymore, so they have no way to function in this environment. That leaves TV and radio reporters, most of whom have never had to do any sort of digging or investigative work. The best TV guys still develop solid sources and get scoops, but the overall depth was always going to suffer.

Now, with anyone claiming to be a journalist, those who make money in it usually do it through market capitalization and paying themselves out early, ala Buzzfeed and Gawker, then fail later.

It's just a big money game. In many ways it always has been. They've just figured out that removing the actual journalists from the proceedings makes it easier to manipulate.