We're a fucking joke, aren't we?
We're a fucking joke, aren't we?
Wow. Quite the read. Covers everything. Worse than I (we?) expected.
And of course the American MLS media is going to focus on the vape pen.
My favorite part -
"Multiple sources within and outside of the team were told that at the conclusion of last season, Insigne declared in front of teammates that he would not return to TFC if Bradley remained head coach. Although he did indeed return, the same sources confirmed Insigne again told teammates this week that he did not want to continue playing under Bradley moving forward."
I’m just impressed by these European footballers who continue to smoke. Old school, lol.Originally Posted by OgtheDim
How the hell did somebody inside team player leadership leak all that?
Somebody is significantly pissed off at BB.
His arguments were logical but the decisions were based purely on accomplishment, not on personality. He repeated the mistake Lieweke made with Defoe, where all they did was woo, and no one looked at the personality fit.
Bez made a point of learning from that, and underselling Giovinco dramatically, by telling him it would be a project, he wouldn't necessarily dominate etc etc. He wisely downplayed the ego in everything, because it had been a problem once before.
The fact that we lost Vanney because they wouldn't let him pick some of his own players is the thing in this that irritates me most. His players loved the guy, he won consistently for us, he's a good manager. He's now saddled with a front office situation as toxic as ours, fan walkouts, players signed by Klein that he didn't agree with. So he went from the frying pan to the fire.
Really, my impression of Manning from what I've heard internally is he's a nice man, but very naive about the abilities of friends and people he's known for a long time. Past performance is his biggest indicator, and one thing I learned running a newsroom and hiring reporters for years was that personality is a bigger indicator of success than initial ability/past performance.
Good athletes can be made great athletes by a good manager. Assholes who don't fit can rarely be turned into team players. Strident, ruthlessly self-confident managers do not change their tack to become flexible, warm managers.
Fede will always be a bit of a tool, because he's quite immature. Insigne will be a prima donna because he's been coddled his entire life as a superior footballer.
But a good manager can work with hardcases, or pieces that don't fit. He can adapt his team to handle that. These guys are used to football as art; they're chess pieces. Bob is accustomed to football as a fight; he's a master of checkers.
We're not buying out $54-million worth of contracts. We all already know where this is going. If Manning has any decision left, it's whether he wants Bob's contacts and "allies" while looking for a new gig, or whether he can survive while firing him, if we get some turnaround on the field.
I have to figure with so much of the season left and the miracle turnaround 'bounce' that can come from a good manager, he's going for the latter.
It was the worst environment of my career,” a former Toronto FC player told The Athletic.
with this new information, bringing in these guys without the knowledge of whether they'd fit under the coach/ sporting director they've just given a 5 year contract too is unforgivable.
this + soteldo + armas. one underlying factor.
It's also quite demoralizing that a) this is all the exact shit we've been harping about on this board for a year; my team source has begrudgingly conceded that it is "not wrong." b) We lost a good manager and several good players to the general dysfunction and c) the local media didn't just "poo poo" the notion of Michael Bradley as a disruptive locker room presence, they actually actively helped cover it up with the poor quality of their reporting.
I don't know if people who like Bob expect us all to gloat or something about this shit; I'm not sure they understand how much we all fucking hate this, how we want the only obvious fucking resolution to happen sooner rather than later.
There is only one solution to this RIGHT NOW: Hire a can't-miss, world-class manager. They will come, they just cost a shit-ton of money and generally only stay two years. When you're the best, you can do that.
Hire Tata. Pirlo, who they apparently considered before Bob, would probably also be a mistake. He has not had good results relative to his talent available as a manager. He's early in his career and for all his stated tactical nous does not get the best consistently out of his players.
I fear based on precedent, and the Italians perhaps pointing out he's available, that we might end up with him. While I doubt he could be a worse fit than Bob, I'm not sure he's the guy.
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A subscription to the Athletic costs less than one TFC game. That's not too much of an ask for original content.
Too bad MLS doesn't have relegation because we deserve it.
Great article. Confirms all this disfunction....and looks like Manning is going with bradley...and they'll both be gone soon.
I know, but I like the guy. I'm having difficulty with that end of it. My sense is he genuinely is looking at this all and saying "how did hiring the best, most expensive people go horribly wrong?" And it's just much more complicated to get the right people than looking at the top of a list on transfermarkt.
I mean, there just isn't the due diligence required. For one, we're in a capped league. That's a bigger consideration in hiring anyone, immediately, than their current level. WE'd almost certainly do better with a manager proven to repeatedly overachieve with LESS money, not more.
But it's seen as a relationship business, and for a lot of guys in it, that's where the bulk of their decisions lie: does he have a track record that's good, do I personally like/trust him. The fact that it's a puzzle to put together, not a series of portraits hanging separately, seems to have been missed completely.
Last edited by jloome; 05-26-2023 at 02:22 PM.
Oh how I laughed at the vaping and calling MAK "Bob's other son" bits.
What shitshow, burn it all to the ground
would not be surprised if they sold one or both italians in the summer.
What was it, a whole 48 hours ago when Molinaro basically threw down the gavel and said there was no truth to Berna wanting Bob fired?
Good grief.
Count me in. Has the gravitas to get immediate attention and buy in from the Italians...and with them the rest of the team. We'd immediately improve and could salvage this season.
This is not working. And your comments about MB being a disruptive lockerroom presence and what the article says about him...also means, he has to go as well. The arm band must be stripped from him when he comes back..yeah, bold move and he won't like it but too bad. Kaye also, handpicked by Bob and so underwhelming. Another problem in the lockerroom I think as he's a Bob guy...
How? No one's touching Insigne's deal, and they'd have to eat at least 50-65% of it. That's an ENORMOUS sum to write off.
Bernardeschi, maybe, because at his age he's a commodity still at the top level. But his play hasn't seemed up to it, ironically, and he was already an 'enfant terrible' to some extent in Italy. Clubs avoid players they see as difficult.
I don't think they're moving anyone. They MIGHT move Fede, but it won't change the Insigne situation. He's on a massive deal and almost didn't even come back this season because he has a manager who clearly can't provide the level of tactical knowledge he expects.
we shouldn't have let vanney walk.
virtually every move since the 2019 MLS Cup final has been wrong.
When I quit my sub after the first year, I told him it was because he wasn't digging, he wasn't getting us anything we didn't know. I suspect he saw it as insulting, but it was supposed to be a caution from someone who was in the business longer and in print, which is where he is now.
The answer was very much of the "thanks for your interest!" variety.
But ultimately media of any sort lives and dies on the work, not the overarching topic.
If there was ever a reason to not bother with Molinaro's writing, this was it. Absolutely no point in reading anything he writes. Obviously just a voice for the FO.
Bingo.
Bob might be a great coach but he shouldn’t be coaching in an environment where his son is in the locker room and the captain.
He also shouldn’t have these Italians as his DP’s given his playing style preference.
The Italians also shouldn’t be paired with each other as high profile signings given their personal history.
And the list goes on…
could see a team in the middle east taking insigne's deal, but yes harder to see him going.
bernardeschi comes off very poorly in that article.
everyone likes a player who shows passion but he comes off as petulant and a negative force. would be more likely to sell him out of the two imo.
i believe insigne can still be a success in MLS, we've just done a very poor job of surrounding him with complementing pieces.
if we can get tata or someone of that calibre we should absolutely go for it.
tfc do the highest of highs or the lowest lows, no middle ground.
I don't think I've ever felt so consistently vindicated about things I thought were wrong and turned out to actually be wrong in my life, and I don't think I've ever been less satisfied by it.
I even tried to double down this year. I told my front office source I voted them at '60 pts', in the hope we'd have an injury free year where we looked like the Charlotte game week in and out. I really, really tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, even though we never saw week-to-week improvement.
Bill's character judgment has generally not been good. Javier Perez would have been twice the manager, and he's pretty sleepy in terms of dynamism. He got more out of far less with this club.
This is, to my memory, the second time he’s done this. I don’t recall what happened the first time out but it was just as stupid.
I might pay to have a coffee with the guy (he seems genuine) but I would not pay for his writing, that’s the nicest thing I can say at this moment.
All I know is, if Bob is not fired, I will not renew my seasons. A bunch of my buddies with seasons also are fed up...how quickly this has all unraveled....
Normally I love going but tomorrow, its just to see the reaction from everyone pre game and in the stands...and if we go behind...wow, its going to get really ugly.
Yeah, I'd agree there.
I like his talent. But he's very charismatic and he knows how to play the fan's guy in the media. When I suggested about a month, or maybe a little longer, ago that he wasn't bothering to play defense much of the time, I got roundly shit on across several forums and in a short stream of PMs.
I think if we had a team based more on pattern movement and resonsibility than read-and-react, he would also be far more effective. On games where we have Oso in the middle to draw defenses a little, he's much, much more dangerous.
If we got a Tata-level of personnel handler, I think he could at least be turned around enough that it doesn't detract.
I agree with this. Hate to risk coming off sounding arrogant but TFC regardless of Bob's current situation - and hopefully in their contigency planning for a new coach... need to make sure they nail the next fuckin guy that comes along because if they don't they are gonna lose more a lot more than just the new fans that found north american football because of the italians. They absolutely cannot follow what unfortunately many folks on reddit or even MLS analysts foam and peddle out... we cannot go for another single system manager or a manager who was a legendary player and sees the game like nobody else... but cannot express that into tactical game plans. Instead of using transfermarkt to go down the list they need to understand what they need to get out of their coach and hiring someone that fits that vs just a name and the win/loss history. Truth be told we need a dynamic coach that kind of is used throwing teams together and making them work given budgets and time constraints... coaches who are used to fighting in the trenches of promotion/regulation and need to groom their players, micro manage systems and adapt on the fly and manage ego's every single game to squeeze value out of the group they have... all while being upbeat and enthusiastic to keep their players motivated to build each week more points and wins. Managers that are used to not being afforded the time to craft a perfect 4-3-3 hold up striker/pressing striker geigenpress. Or managers who need a huge budget to be able to theorycraft ideas with high IQ players. In all honesty someone who has been bottom to mid table top 3-4 leagues for a while and knows the process to grind out results and have to work analytics and game write-ups to make it happen, and walking through those write-ups/match plans with the players if needed.
I can't remember how systems orientated these guys were.. so apologize if these examples are almost a hypocracy of my post here.. but the likes of Adi Hutter, or a Peter Bosz (although Bosz is known to play players out of position to maximize their skillset). Fuck he was hated while he was here and is a bit of a systems guy but a Frank de boer. He might not have had Atlanta piling on championships but they were a stable club that somewhat ground out results if I remember correctly. But that's my sense at least. I don't know other great leagues like those in croatia or belgium or even south america... so I can't really cite relatable managers. Don't get me wrong... those 3 examples above would involve some cash and a budget- but like Jloome said - its gonna cost money to find the right guy who can come in and work the squad and be adaptable, and be proper hands-on.
Last edited by FiveThreeTwo; 05-26-2023 at 02:40 PM.
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