Bob Bradley Evaluation Thread

[jloome]

What players do you think are still on our cap, and do we know by how much? I do agree that if that's hurting our ability to construct a roster and hamstringing us then for sure it's something to consider and some context on the overall job Bradleys doing, though the choice to get rid of those players if they're still eating cap space then becomes very questionable

I wouldn't be surprised if we were eating chunks of Jozy and Kemar Lawrence, and we may still have some charge against us from Salcedo; even though we released him, I suspect we would've had to pay at least a portion of his remaining deal if it was the club's choice and not the stated "family issue" and his request.

Given that he had a new club shortly thereafter, I suspect it was just that he was ass.

Even if we didn't have to pay some of that deal, his transfer fee would still be amortized over the life of the original contract against the cap. It was never released, but he was not free; the club at the time said they had "reached an agreement to acquire" him from Tigres. So we paid a fee; we may have even given them some cash to take Soteldo off our hands.


Having said all that, I think the bigger issue is our entire first team is made up of TAM-level salaries.

[NK Toronto]

My cousins husband used to work for MLSE in a fairly senior role on the business side of the organization, whereby he got the opportunity to interact with several of the executives including Larry T. I spoke with him this weekend about his time at MLSE and raised the question about the difficulty in signing top notch free agents, especially for the Raptors. He told me that attracting free agents has always been a challenge for MLSE, as most American and foreign players would prefer to play in the U.S over Canada, all things being equal. Sure they will come to Toronto, however the money has to be significantly better than anywhere else. This has put Toronto teams in a competitive disadvantage vs. U.S. teams in salary capped leagues in terms of managing the cap. This explains why we have so many players on high TAM salaries. Look how long the Sean Johnson contract talks dragged on before he finally signed. It seems like he would rather have gone elsewhere.

I have raised this issue in the past and had many posters dismiss this theory. Most Torontians are proud of their city and view it as a great place to live. However just because we think it's a good place to live doesn't mean the rest of the world sees it the same.

Not that I am some world traveler, but when I traveled abroad and told people I was from Toronto the question I was inevitably asked was how cold does it get in winter. This is what we are known for, whether we like it or not.

[spe18]

My cousins husband used to work for MLSE in a fairly senior role on the business side of the organization, whereby he got the opportunity to interact with several of the executives including Larry T. I spoke with him this weekend about his time at MLSE and raised the question about the difficulty in signing top notch free agents, especially for the Raptors. He told me that attracting free agents has always been a challenge for MLSE, as most American and foreign players would prefer to play in the U.S over Canada, all things being equal. Sure they will come to Toronto, however the money has to be significantly better than anywhere else. This has put Toronto teams in a competitive disadvantage vs. U.S. teams in salary capped leagues in terms of managing the cap. This explains why we have so many players on high TAM salaries. Look how long the Sean Johnson contract talks dragged on before he finally signed. It seems like he would rather have gone elsewhere.

Great insights.

One thing though........did CF Montreal have a lot of players on high TAM salaries last season too when they finished 2nd in the east?

[NK Toronto]

Great insights.

One thing though........did CF Montreal have a lot of players on high TAM salaries last season too when they finished 2nd in the east?

I can't give you a specific breakdown of last years salaries, but I do know that almost all of their top players left at season's end.

[los sonadores]

I can't give you a specific breakdown of last years salaries, but I do know that almost all of their top players left at season's end.

Manning does often refer to ‘selling the city’. I don’t think one would have to sell major american cities to Americans and not to sell the ‘greatest country in the world’ to them either. For Europeans, Toronto can be as good as America in the sense that they’re considered to be new world cities of skyscrapers and without history. But of course in that case you have to sell the league, and hence also to pay more.

For someone from a decent paying euro league it’s an adventure but an adventure that comes with a good salary and that is often TAM. Ideally, the league would be capable of a starting eleven on TAM. That’s going to be necessary to complete with Liga MX. They’ve got expensive players coming off the bench. Our league needs much deeper benches and that takes money.

[Ultra & Proud]

Manning does often refer to ‘selling the city’. I don’t think one would have to sell major american cities to Americans and not to sell the ‘greatest country in the world’ to them either

I think they have sell any city other than NY, LA, or Miami as much as we do and even more if it's like Houston.

[OgtheDim]

NBA & MLB players are notorious for not wanting to move outside of the US. "What do you mean I can't get SportsCentre?"

Soccer has not had the same problem because there are not as many US players. As for length of time to sign Sean Johnson - we signed both Hedges & Drew Moor before most other free agents were signed.

[los sonadores]

I think they have sell any city other than NY, LA, or Miami as much as we do and even more if it's like Houston.

For Euros yes but for US players no. There are many more familiar and well regarded cities for Americans than those three… and in fact not all Americans even especially want to play in those places. Depends on the player. But the US is an insular place and Canada is a foreign country of which little to nothing is known.

[rydermike]

Also, MLS has limits on free agents. They can only sign for a 20% raise. So, it's not like we had to overpay to convince Sean Johnson or Hedges. They would've gotten those raises elsewhere too probably.

[JoesphNdo]

There's no evidence whatsoever this is an issue with Toronto fc and plenty of evidence it's not. It is a problem that exists mostly in the head of people insecure about where they live, I think. Other sports could be another story.

[Hala Hrvatska]

A big thing is taxes and no doubt weather for some.

Florida, no state tax...great weather. Ad Latin culture for the Spanish/South American players is a huge draw too. I'd be down in Miami in a second like Poz went other things being equal.

But, the bigger issue here, do players really want to play for BB? Maybe some do, some don't. And the whole mess (like de guzman eluded too) of the BB and MB father son/captain situation as well. We've missed the playoffs the past few years, and the team was a complete mess by our lofty standards.

Players want to get paid...but also win. Sooner or later if this doesn't turn around, look for Fede and Insigne call for BB's head. They are the only players that have the pull and can make MLSE listen.

[los sonadores]

There's no evidence whatsoever this is an issue with Toronto fc and plenty of evidence it's not. It is a problem that exists mostly in the head of people insecure about where they live, I think. Other sports could be another story.

If you’re talking about MLS lifer Americans finding it an adventure to play outside of the US, I think it only takes having lived there to see that this is a basic fact of life. Some will enjoy it and some won’t or would rather not. I don’t think it’s a big deal but crossing the border is different than going east coast to west.

[JoesphNdo]

If you’re talking about MLS lifer Americans finding it an adventure to play outside of the US, I think it only takes having lived there to see that this is a basic fact of life. Some will enjoy it and some won’t or would rather not. I don’t think it’s a big deal but crossing the border is different than going east coast to west.

Some players will have reasons to play in any geographic area, but where's the evidence?

Against this hypothesis I'd put forward that 1) we built a league winning team on, at the time, the deepest squad in league history. You aren't doing that in a salary cap league if you're forced to overpay for talent because that's the only way you can attract them. 2) we've never failed to attract high profile talent 3) even this year we signed very high profile free agents who, doubtless, others would want and that's despite the fact that league rules mean we couldn't just outbid everyone and 4) allegedly Vasquez is on the league minimum, you had pozuelo saying he'd sign on just tam money publicly and 5) we don't struggle to retain talent when we're playing well

Where's the evidence of us struggling to aquire talent? I just don't see any evidence that Tfc struggles more in the transfer market than any other team. I'm open to it, but I'd need to see the evidence for it as I see alot of evidence against it

[los sonadores]

Some players will have reasons to play in any geographic area, but where's the evidence?

Against this hypothesis I'd put forward that 1) we built a league winning team on, at the time, the deepest squad in league history. You aren't doing that in a salary cap league if you're forced to overpay for talent because that's the only way you can attract them. 2) we've never failed to attract high profile talent 3) even this year we signed very high profile free agents who, doubtless, others would want and that's despite the fact that league rules mean we couldn't just outbid everyone and 4) allegedly Vasquez is on the league minimum, you had pozuelo saying he'd sign on just tam money publicly and 5) we don't struggle to retain talent when we're playing well

Where's the evidence of us struggling to aquire talent? I just don't see any evidence that Tfc struggles more in the transfer market than any other team. I'm open to it, but I'd need to see the evidence for it as I see alot of evidence against it

I think you’ve arguing with someone else, man. I’m not talking about overpaying.

But on that subject, the money we have almost always shelled out for DPs is usually far and away what they’re worth in Europe (though maybe not what they’re worth in the middle east). I don’t think that’s in doubt. Maybe as the league grows that won’t be necessary at some point.

Also, as I’m sure you know we take a different tack than other clubs. We often want star power media recognition. We don’t go for low salary/high transfer fee with intent to sell like Atlanta, or young cost effective good players already more or less in the international system like NYCFC, or Seattle’s often lower cost, lower profile DPs who come at a decent age and play out their careers here. There are only a few teams at most that do this in MLS and mostly they have to pay to do it. Unless it’s a one season last hurrah from a star. But what does it matter? MLSE is filthy rich and it’s all 600,000 or so against the cap. Insigne’s salary is the first time I’ve heard any talk of it restricting any other signings but that has to do with our many TAM signing not with his 15 million. If we can clear enough salary cap space no doubt we can afford a third DP of some decent salary. Although personally I’m leaning towards an inexpensive but competent DP striker, Ayo moved and three new under 22 players.

[Section 223]

I think you’ve arguing with someone else, man. I’m not talking about overpaying.

But on that subject, the money we have almost always shelled out for DPs is usually far and away what they’re worth in Europe (though maybe not what they’re worth in the middle east). I don’t think that’s in doubt. Maybe as the league grows that won’t be necessary at some point.

Also, as I’m sure you know we take a different tack than other clubs. We often want star power media recognition. We don’t go for low salary/high transfer fee with intent to sell like Atlanta, or young cost effective good players already more or less in the international system like NYCFC, or Seattle’s often lower cost, lower profile DPs who come at a decent age and play out their careers here. There are only a few teams at most that do this in MLS and mostly they have to pay to do it. Unless it’s a one season last hurrah from a star. But what does it matter? MLSE is filthy rich and it’s all 600,000 or so against the cap. Insigne’s salary is the first time I’ve heard any talk of it restricting any other signings but that has to do with our many TAM signing not with his 15 million. If we can clear enough salary cap space no doubt we can afford a third DP of some decent salary. Although personally I’m leaning towards an inexpensive but competent DP striker, Ayo moved and three new under 22 players.

From what I’ve seen from Bobs assessment of talent I’d rather have the team go for another big money DP, relying on Bob Bradley to bring in three new under 22 players with decent talent would be futile exercise

[FootBallAZ]

to put in perspective Bayern fired their coach being second in the bundersliga and being the final 8 teams in the UCL- and they still fired their coach-

Even conte who tottenham let go- went off and talked about accountability and how him and all the players are being paid very well to perform- this was refreshing to see -yes they let him go but at least he was honest and transparent about the team performance.

I am unsure which coach can win 1 game this year or gut the team and not bang out wins vs an easy schedule.

The saddest part is- the defense and goalie shouldn;t be the issue-but still allowed two goals vs one of the worse teams in the league.

The biggest issue is going back to last year - TFC cannot score goals within the play of the game- most goals have come from set pieces. the goals TFC did score in play was individually moments of brilliance vs a well coached team.

Seems like with defense not allowing 4 goals per game the offense is being exposed badly.

Team canada is much more enjoyable to watch- my season cost a lot and I was able to spend money and find joy watching CMNT and their coach learn and grow- sitting at the game on saturday after watching Canada win in better weather makes me question a lot.

It has been the first time since 2017 where my card was charged and I went to look to see where TFC was in the standings.

[Canary10]

to put in perspective Bayern fired their coach being second in the bundersliga and being the final 8 teams in the UCL- and they still fired their coach-

Even conte who tottenham let go- went off and talked about accountability and how him and all the players are being paid very well to perform- this was refreshing to see -yes they let him go but at least he was honest and transparent about the team performance.

I am unsure which coach can win 1 game this year or gut the team and not bang out wins vs an easy schedule.

The saddest part is- the defense and goalie shouldn;t be the issue-but still allowed two goals vs one of the worse teams in the league.

The biggest issue is going back to last year - TFC cannot score goals within the play of the game- most goals have come from set pieces. the goals TFC did score in play was individually moments of brilliance vs a well coached team.

Seems like with defense not allowing 4 goals per game the offense is being exposed badly.

Team canada is much more enjoyable to watch- my season cost a lot and I was able to spend money and find joy watching CMNT and their coach learn and grow- sitting at the game on saturday after watching Canada win in better weather makes me question a lot.

It has been the first time since 2017 where my card was charged and I went to look to see where TFC was in the standings.

Yes, and a lot of people think that was stupid. And in the first game, Davies benched and didn't get in, and Bayern got knocked out of the Cup by Freiberg.

Conte was doing a George Costanza trying to get fired by the Yankees.

[FootBallAZ]

Yes, and a lot of people think that was stupid. And in the first game, Davies benched and didn't get in, and Bayern got knocked out of the Cup by Freiberg.

Conte was doing a George Costanza trying to get fired by the Yankees.

um good sir you missed the point, the first game Bayern won 4-2 vs BVB who were ahead of them in the standings.

Yes davies was benched -due to the congestion of games, they are prioritizing the league and champions league which is on tuesday- so in perspective it seems like coach has an objective and he is focused on it.

Yes was not playing davies questionable for sure- but if they win their league and the match on tuesday -

[Canary10]

um good sir you missed the point, the first game Bayern won 4-2 vs BVB who were ahead of them in the standings.

Yes davies was benched -due to the congestion of games, they are prioritizing the league and champions league which is on tuesday- so in perspective it seems like coach has an objective and he is focused on it.

Yes was not playing davies questionable for sure- but if they win their league and the match on tuesday -

Ah, I thought his first game was the Cup game. I actually kinda like Tuchel and think Chelsea made a mistake getting rid of him, especially now that Frank Lampard is back there. But a little worried about Davies' position, although they have said CancelO is going back when his loan is done. I think there are some legit questions whether firing Nagelsmann was a good move, which we'll see in the tie against City I guess. I get the intent of your post though. Bayern is definitely not prepared to settle for second.

[Ultra & Proud]

Forgetting about all the father/son noise and focusing on Bob, I see the problem as:

Last year he showed he could get an offense going somewhat (with what we had). This year he is showing that he can set up a decent defense.

However, if he can't strike a decent balance between the two with the roster we have now then he has to go. I get that our forwards probably won't score but we at least need to create real chances and it seems we've sacrificed all of that just to get us our defense to not allow 4 goals against a match.

[nick.mastro]

I’m still not impressed with the defence. We already have given up two leads at home. Last one being us up 2-0 at the half.

Atleast the offence is getting us the leads

[OgtheDim]

I’m still not impressed with the defence. We already have given up two leads at home. Last one being us up 2-0 at the half.
...

Midfield not tracking players back is a large % of those goals against.

[NK Toronto]

Defending is a team concept. If your midfield is being dominated and the other team has the majority of the possession you will concede goals. TFC have given up several goals on long shots from outside of the penalty area. The defending this year so far has been the team's strength.

[ag futbol]

This is the negative view but my overall faith in Bob is really operating on a razor’s edge here.

The ties are fine for road form but those really represent dropped points at home. They need to break our beyond the current pace or we’ll be the very bottom playoff seeds at best (which is a failure).

Popular logic goes Insigne returns and that sorts out the attack and builds on our defensive solidity, coverts more draws into wins. It’s not that simple because in that process of re-inserting LI we are dropping more of a traditional midfielder which also lessens the defensive cover that is surrounding Bradley.

On the roster front we clearly need a striker. Until that happens this team is going to be playing at a disadvantage. But it’s not known if we have the cap space and we have to also figure out a way to keep Laryea in the summer.

This isn’t to say Bob hasn’t done any good work. The roster seems to have far more usable pieces than when we started and solidifying a shit show of a backline deserves praise. But issue identification seems to be slow (one year to realize we needed a keeper, really?), tactically we feel over zealous and inflexible (which also taints our roster building), and searching for progress in this team is requiring a lot of waiting.

If there are any further mishaps I would be very tempted to do what LAFC did, which is hand over the keys to someone else

[los sonadores]

This is the negative view but my overall faith in Bob is really operating on a razor’s edge here.

The ties are fine for road form but those really represent dropped points at home. They need to break our beyond the current pace or we’ll be the very bottom playoff seeds at best (which is a failure).

Popular logic goes Insigne returns and that sorts out the attack and builds on our defensive solidity, coverts more draws into wins. It’s not that simple because in that process of re-inserting LI we are dropping more of a traditional midfielder which also lessens the defensive cover that is surrounding Bradley.

On the roster front we clearly need a striker. Until that happens this team is going to be playing at a disadvantage. But it’s not known if we have the cap space and we have to also figure out a way to keep Laryea in the summer.

This isn’t to say Bob hasn’t done any good work. The roster seems to have far more usable pieces than when we started and solidifying a shit show of a backline deserves praise. But issue identification seems to be slow (one year to realize we needed a keeper, really?), tactically we feel over zealous and inflexible (which also taints our roster building), and searching for progress in this team is requiring a lot of waiting.

If there are any further mishaps I would be very tempted to do what LAFC did, which is hand over the keys to someone else

What Richie does or doesn’t do is huge. (Though I don’t see how we can afford to keep him.)

As for the striker need, that, I think was the idea behind Diomande and he could still fill it well enough, at least until summer. I’d like to see him when he’s fit. He has the talent to do the job.

I still think it’s much too early to hand the keys over to anyone else. He’s had 6 matches with his roster. To do a brutal year long tear down and then immediately fire the guy is counterproductive. Also, if the keys are handed over to someone else it has to be someone who plays both roles Bradley has. Or it’s got to be two hires. Not so easy.

Last year our roster was a bad joke, this year it’s pretty good. We are improving and becoming more coherent.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Bonkers… cuckoo in the coconut… bat-shite crazy… epic rant!? Caution, offensive language!!! Off the rails, but with possible kernels of accuracy. I will argue some peoples of Naples are a difficult read; understand their tells. For me, at times, Lolo’s you’re ok or I am going to bury you… face… are one in the same. No doubt that he was itching to play last night, starting 10 to 15 minutes into the second half while he was pausing during warm-up drills at the south-west end line, he kept glancing down the touch line to the bench/coaches and slapping the corner flag. It felt like BB was ignoring him. In fact, I believe and it seemed like ‘Roy Kent’ had to have a very long conversation with BB, who always maintained his fixation on the pitch throughout it, before Lolo got the go ahead. Though, Lolo did embrace BB before entering the pitch. So IDK, maybe he is just a focused and fierce competitor.

https://twitter.com/fanfirstnetwork/...11325138878466

[wopchop]

Bonkers… cuckoo in the coconut… bat-shite crazy… epic rant!? Caution, offensive language!!! Off the rails, but with possible kernels of accuracy. I will argue some peoples of Naples are a difficult read; understand their tells. For me, at times, Lolo’s you’re ok or I am going to bury you… face… are one in the same. No doubt that he was itching to play last night, starting 10 to 15 minutes into the second half while he was pausing during warm-up drills at the south-west end line, he kept glancing down the touch line to the bench/coaches and slapping the corner flag. It felt like BB was ignoring him. In fact, I believe and it seemed like ‘Roy Kent’ had to have a very long conversation with BB, who allays maintained his fixation on the pitch throughout it, before Lolo got the go ahead. Though, Lolo did embrace BB before entering the pitch. So IDK, maybe he is just a focused and fierce competitor.

https://twitter.com/fanfirstnetwork/...11325138878466

At the end of the day, many fans don't know what the hell they are talking about. For example, the two guys beside me were arguing about why Bob hasn't been playing Insigne this year, and how we have "$12 MM sitting in the bench".

[FootBallAZ]

I really believe BB is on the hot seat, here is my reason why:

1. TSN video- exposing MB- MLSE never lets things out in the media like this that makes someone from the company look bad unless -someone is out for blood.

2. MB saying- he doesnt believe in load management- and will play 90 m -paraphrase.

3. Think he was given an ultimatum to start someone other then MB.

4. The way it happened- in stadium it was announced he was one of the available bench subs- which MB wasnt even dressed.



unfortunately ATL without half their starting XI made TFC's midfield look weak - unsure if MB will regain his starting position.

I do feel BB is being pressed and if results arent coming in shortly- will see a change of direction.


Also someone mentioned Insgine hitting the corner flag - as he wanted to get in the game- my colleague also noticed this and said one of the guys yelled at isigne to get in italian and he responded - "tell them to put me in"

which kind of makes me question why BB wouldnt put him in sooner especially when down 2-1 in a season where TFC has 1 win?

[Ultra & Proud]

Bob's seat is warming but won't get hot until the offense keeps misfiring when Insigne can start a run of matches. Even without a CF we should be creating more chances for whoever we have up there to blow.

As for MB, Coello didn't exactly make a case to sit MB this week, if he is healthy that is. He didn't dress because he felt off during warm ups. Could be anything from muscle pain (but I think he would play through that) to sickness (which he probably couldn't do depending on symptoms).

As for Insigne, guy is coming off a lengthly lay off with a groin issue. That's normally an ease him back in situation regardless of scoreline or even if it were a "must win" type scenario. BB send him on at 55 at he pulls up at some point and is out until August and that's much, much worse.

However, I still haven't seen consistent proof that we can balance defense & attack with Bob yet. It's been pretty much one or the other except we've abandoned chances this season too. If that doesn't improve then he will have to go and I say he has until August to prove he can get both working with our roster to some level of efficiency.

[jloome]

However, I still haven't seen consistent proof that we can balance defense & attack with Bob yet. It's been pretty much one or the other.

The commentators during El Classico mentioned that under Bradley, LAFC was all attack and had trouble balancing offense and defense. He said Cherundolo's one significant contribution has been to press and push less, work more often from a counterattacking position when convenient.

But we've seen more flexibility from Bradley by far in the last four games that we saw all of last year.

I think he's finally adjusting to the reality being not perfect, roster wise, and adapting as a result. I don't think, or see any factual suggestion, that someone else is forcing his hand. And after years of listening to him, I don't credit Manning doing any forcing. He believes in letting the guy he picked do the job. With Ali, clearly a mistake, so maybe Bob has less wiggle room. I'm not sure that would be a bad thing.

Whether he can adapt enough to the squad, rather than the squad adapting to his tactics, is what will decide this and whether it works in the long run.

My only concern from the game is that neither Coello or Peruzza seemed to be doing badly. Coello was beaten twice on the run, so maybe that was why he pulled him. But his numbers, his passing and his coverage of space were all pretty okay.

I felt at the time like Oso was ineffective wide, having to always come in to the right, instead of being able to play the ball to whatever space was available, and he was of more value centrally (which he pretty much always is).

My concern is that he judged them both to be poor, which they weren't. Peruzza had issues but was a far sight better than Akinola, both at pressing and moving off the ball. He can't beat a backline yet because he's not used to the speed and timing at this level, and having to go early. But other than that, he was okay. He used a nice dummy run on Richie's goal to pull one of the two defenders clear.

So we'll see. If he cameo'd them to please others and it was an indignant sub, hopefully they don't suffer because of his biases. Because neither youth was poor. They were both stock average. Coello maybe -- maybe -- got shaded a little to easily defensively. Again, experience from playing and knowing how to angle runs more quickly at this speed will address that.