Bob Bradley Evaluation Thread

[ag futbol]

OK we should have got something from the DC game. But Atlanta and Columbus, there is no escaping the fact that both looked miles better than us.

We are by no means crap, but are playing like crap. We are being outplayed.

I don't see what you see at the back. Maybe it'll be there, it is not that I see a problem there. I see us getting opened up regularly. This has much to do with the MB problem.

There is no joy out there. Something is obviously missing.

Quoting this post from another thread just to keep discussion points clean.

My worry right now is, it’s been a very long time since we’ve seen a complete 90 minute performance. We just go through long spells in games where things look off the rails and players body language screams of frustration. Reminds me a bit of the beginning of the end of Aaron Winter.

I agree that our roster is not crap. We should have enough to work with to be competitive. Do I think it’s MLS cup winning? No, but a lot could change with a few smart moves in the summer. I just think we have to stabilize ourselves in terms of organization and results.

This is just my wild guess but if the current form were to continue Bob would be at risk of losing the room.

[levyashin]

Me thinks that he has already lost Bernerdeschi!

[Ultra & Proud]

Do we still have the same shitty physio team under Bob that has plagued us for years?

Now even the MLS journos are making jokes about it.

[ManUtd4ever]

It's embarrassing that any player on our roster (let alone a player of Insigne's magnitude) would aggravate an injury in training.

If he wasn't ready to start training at full capacity, why was he on the training pitch in the first place?

This is starting to have the same odor as the ongoing injury saga with Jozy. Groin injuries in particular need to be dealt with very carefully.

[ensco]

Quoting this post from another thread just to keep discussion points clean.

My worry right now is, it’s been a very long time since we’ve seen a complete 90 minute performance. We just go through long spells in games where things look off the rails and players body language screams of frustration. Reminds me a bit of the beginning of the end of Aaron Winter.

I agree that our roster is not crap. We should have enough to work with to be competitive. Do I think it’s MLS cup winning? No, but a lot could change with a few smart moves in the summer. I just think we have to stabilize ourselves in terms of organization and results.

This is just my wild guess but if the current form were to continue Bob would be at risk of losing the room.

Thanks for moving my post to correct spot.

I don't think Bob should go. I pretty much 100% agree with this post.

But I do think Bob should feel serious effing heat now.

To channel what I think Fede would say, basta! Basta with the excuses!

I don't know how heat works from the suits, so we have to bring it here. That's all.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Comparative set... 'Best GoalKeeper' versus 'Most Expensive Player' in MLS both get, out with, groin injuries. Jim Curtain versus Bob Bradley in mister media management; transparency. I think BB needs to work on being more forthcoming. Judge for yourself against this...

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/DaveMReports/status/1634776770330218496

BTW, a past paraphrased quote of Craig Burly on BB dealing with the (MLS) media and uncomfortable questions... 'arrogance of the highest order...beggars belief... If BB doesn't like it then tough... maybe that is one of the reasons (he) is back managing here (in MLS) and not in Europe... because he may not be able to take the pressure (scrutiny) of managing there... maybe wants it all his own way'.

[Section 223]

Comparative set... 'Best GoalKeeper' versus 'Most Expensive Player' in MLS both get, out with, groin injuries. Jim Curtain versus Bob Bradley in mister media management; transparency. I think BB needs to work on being more forthcoming. Judge for yourself against this...

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/DaveMReports/status/1634776770330218496

BTW, a past paraphrased quote of Craig Burly on BB dealing with the (MLS) media and uncomfortable questions... 'arrogance of the highest order...beggars belief... If BB doesn't like it then tough... maybe that is one of the reasons (he) is back managing here (in MLS) and not in Europe... because he may not be able to take the pressure (scrutiny) of managing there... maybe wants it all his own way'.

Anyone who has followed Bob Bradley’s career knows he is not “Europe level” just another arrogant American who decided to get into Soccer coaching at absolutely the perfect time in America

[Mr. Inbetween]

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/msceducation/status/1636342959099576321

[jloome]

Thanks for moving my post to correct spot.

I don't think Bob should go. I pretty much 100% agree with this post.

But I do think Bob should feel serious effing heat now.

To channel what I think Fede would say, basta! Basta with the excuses!

I don't know how heat works from the suits, so we have to bring it here. That's all.

I think this is where I am. I'm cautiously pessimistic.

If it were just us being out of sorts from a short preseason, or it was easy to blame all of our issues on pre-Bob roster choices, I'd still be expecting early season jitters to give way to strengths. But I'm not sure.

[ensco]

Did I miss a discussion of this somewhere? This was pretty interesting, BB (not Fede) describing Fede's frustration last week this way….

"In the last game, he was frustrated at the end. But he was also frustrated at himself," said Bradley. "He didn't give as much in that game as he did the previous two games."

https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/toronto-fc...eads-1.1933022

To discuss post game or tomorrow… never feel like getting into this type of conversation on gameday…

[portu]

Did I miss a discussion of this somewhere? This was pretty interesting, BB (not Fede) describing Fede's frustration last week this way….

"In the last game, he was frustrated at the end. But he was also frustrated at himself," said Bradley. "He didn't give as much in that game as he did the previous two games."

https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/toronto-fc...eads-1.1933022

To discuss post game or tomorrow… never feel like getting into this type of conversation on gameday…

That’s a hilarious Bob Bradley quote. Fede can’t carry this team.

[portu]

1-4-1 through 6. Lots of luck to be there. Team has looked better, but the team is also actually better.

I think we are on the cusp of hot seat territory.

Fede’s comments suggest a view that the onus is not on the players: “We need to improve for sure because this year we have a team.”

[JoesphNdo]

I'm still not 'fire Bradley' but we have Nashville away, Atlanta home, Philly away and NYCFC at home in the next four games. That's not an impossible run of games, but, it's definitely a harder run than we've had so far. If we don't improve, that may not be pretty. By the time we play our Canadian championship in May if we haven't gotten some results there, which is a possibility, the conversation definitely starts. That will be a really, really pivotal run of games for assessing where this team is at

The good news is with the play offs the way they are we can shit the bed until summer with almost no repercussions and then maybe make some moves in summer, but if we don't get a win from the next 4 I really start to question whether that window is in the right hands with Bob. On the other hand, this could be the window where he starts to finally show us what the vision is and turns things around. We shall see.

[Hala Hrvatska]

I am for BB OUT right now. Cut our losses and move on.

Look at Chelsea and Bayern in the last weeks, they see its not working, and move. LA fired BB after he missed the playoffs and they won it all the very next season. We have the pieces here, just need a competetent coach and we can win it all. (add a striker and CM and we are rolling).

I don't want another lost season. We've missed the playoffs two in a row, and have one win in 8 plus months under BB....and have frankly looked like crap playing a very easy scedule so far. 5 blown leads this year so far as BB stands on the sideline with a deer in the headlights look every single time. Slow to react, no tactics, little to no use of the bench, etc...its time to cut the cord.

Bring in a Euro or South American coach and lets go!

PS anyone know what Perez is up to lately? I was a big fan of his when he was here.

[los sonadores]

I'm still not 'fire Bradley' but we have Nashville away, Atlanta home, Philly away and NYCFC at home in the next four games. That's not an impossible run of games, but, it's definitely a harder run than we've had so far. If we don't improve, that may not be pretty. By the time we play our Canadian championship in May if we haven't gotten some results there, which is a possibility, the conversation definitely starts. That will be a really, really pivotal run of games for assessing where this team is at

The good news is with the play offs the way they are we can shit the bed until summer with almost no repercussions and then maybe make some moves in summer, but if we don't get a win from the next 4 I really start to question whether that window is in the right hands with Bob. On the other hand, this could be the window where he starts to finally show us what the vision is and turns things around. We shall see.

I’d be pretty shocked if Bradley wasn’t given at least the season after a difficult and total rebuild that’s still in progress. The relative faith of our ownership not to mention we’ve only just begun the season. I don’t think he’s under the absurdly high pressure premier league microscope, or subject to Joey Saputo’s Quebec whims.

I guess it gives the disgruntled fan something to do but it’s pure fantasy and I’d rather read discussion of tactics, roster building, the merits of individual players, all for better or worse. Fire Bradley at this stage is a bore.

[JoesphNdo]

I’d be pretty shocked if Bradley wasn’t given at least the season after a difficult and total rebuild that’s still in progress. The relative faith of our ownership not to mention we’ve only just begun the season. I don’t think he’s under the absurdly high pressure premier league microscope, or subject to Joey Saputo’s Quebec whims.

I guess it gives the disgruntled fan something to do but it’s pure fantasy and I’d rather read discussion of tactics, roster building, the merits of individual players, all for better or worse. Fire Bradley at this stage is a bore.

You're probably right in terms of what will actually happen. But way off on the expectations

We're the biggest spenders in the league, by far. In football, money buys trophies - show me the dominant team over a long stretch in any league and I'll show you one of, if not the, biggest spender in that league

Given the money he's had to spend, the carte blanche to gut the squad, write off a season and rebuild it completely as he saw fit, the expectations *should* be high. TFC has a way of gaslighting its fans into low expectations and just ignoring the fact that we're probably he worst team in MLS history in terms of points against spend. With our spending, anything less than contention for MLS cup is failure. There's no other way around that fact.

He *should* be under absurdly high expectations, he would be at any other club, and it's reasonable for what he's been given. Never mind sports, if I was given a budget at work far higher than any competitors and allowed gut and re-shape my department I'd be expected to turn around performance to match and shown the door if I showed I couldn't do it.

You can argue we maybe give him until the end of the season (And I agree we likely will) but it is not crazy to be looking at what he's been given and looking at what he's producing and saying 'so far, this isn't even close to good enough'. Maybe it's 'give him time and see if it gets better', sure, but it's definitely not that the pressure is too high. If anything he's getting a pass on pressure and expectation that wouldn't exist in almost any other team

[Hala Hrvatska]

You're probably right in terms of what will actually happen. But way off on the expectations

We're the biggest spenders in the league, by far. In football, money buys trophies - show me the dominant team over a long stretch in any league and I'll show you one of, if not the, biggest spender in that league

Given the money he's had to spend, the carte blanche to gut the squad, write off a season and rebuild it completely as he saw fit, the expectations *should* be high. TFC has a way of gaslighting its fans into low expectations and just ignoring the fact that we're probably he worst team in MLS history in terms of points against spend. With our spending, anything less than contention for MLS cup is failure. There's no other way around that fact.

He *should* be under absurdly high expectations, he would be at any other club, and it's reasonable for what he's been given. Never mind sports, if I was given a budget at work far higher than any competitors and allowed gut and re-shape my department I'd be expected to turn around performance to match and shown the door if I showed I couldn't do it.

You can argue we maybe give him until the end of the season (And I agree we likely will) but it is not crazy to be looking at what he's been given and looking at what he's producing and saying 'so far, this isn't even close to good enough'. Maybe it's 'give him time and see if it gets better', sure, but it's definitely not that the pressure is too high. If anything he's getting a pass on pressure and expectation that wouldn't exist in almost any other team

Very well said Joesph.

It might be a "bore" to some, but for the fans sick and tired of losing with THE or the closeest to the highest payroll in the league, we expect to win. I fork over a tonne of money for seasons and Saturday night felt like rock bottom, watching a dog.shit team in Charlotte pin us in our end all second half and just hanging on to avoid a loss...and another home game without a win.

Imagine another missed playoff? 3 in a row....despite all this spend. And yes, great metric, points per dollar spent...we have to be in first or close to it.

I don't want BB to make it worse. Cut the cord and move on. He has shown me nothing to believe he can lead us to the top....so no more time...we have seen the product this year so far and its not good...put in a competent coach, and we can improve immediately.

LA seen enough and fired him after they missed the playoffs...very next year they win it all. So change can happen and happen quickly. And one other big reason, this father-son situatiuon as de guzman also said it problematic. No doubt it doesn't help the lockeroom...and also it means MB never comes off either..and everyone is walking around on eggshells...

Cut the cord...get rid of BB and Manning now. Enough is enough.

[Section 223]

You're probably right in terms of what will actually happen. But way off on the expectations

We're the biggest spenders in the league, by far. In football, money buys trophies - show me the dominant team over a long stretch in any league and I'll show you one of, if not the, biggest spender in that league

Given the money he's had to spend, the carte blanche to gut the squad, write off a season and rebuild it completely as he saw fit, the expectations *should* be high. TFC has a way of gaslighting its fans into low expectations and just ignoring the fact that we're probably he worst team in MLS history in terms of points against spend. With our spending, anything less than contention for MLS cup is failure. There's no other way around that fact.

He *should* be under absurdly high expectations, he would be at any other club, and it's reasonable for what he's been given. Never mind sports, if I was given a budget at work far higher than any competitors and allowed gut and re-shape my department I'd be expected to turn around performance to match and shown the door if I showed I couldn't do it.

You can argue we maybe give him until the end of the season (And I agree we likely will) but it is not crazy to be looking at what he's been given and looking at what he's producing and saying 'so far, this isn't even close to good enough'. Maybe it's 'give him time and see if it gets better', sure, but it's definitely not that the pressure is too high. If anything he's getting a pass on pressure and expectation that wouldn't exist in almost any other team

Very well said , you are clearly in my opinion the most astute contributor in this forum, I enjoy all your takes , well done Joseph

[los sonadores]

You're probably right in terms of what will actually happen. But way off on the expectations

We're the biggest spenders in the league, by far. In football, money buys trophies - show me the dominant team over a long stretch in any league and I'll show you one of, if not the, biggest spender in that league

Given the money he's had to spend, the carte blanche to gut the squad, write off a season and rebuild it completely as he saw fit, the expectations *should* be high. TFC has a way of gaslighting its fans into low expectations and just ignoring the fact that we're probably he worst team in MLS history in terms of points against spend. With our spending, anything less than contention for MLS cup is failure. There's no other way around that fact.

He *should* be under absurdly high expectations, he would be at any other club, and it's reasonable for what he's been given. Never mind sports, if I was given a budget at work far higher than any competitors and allowed gut and re-shape my department I'd be expected to turn around performance to match and shown the door if I showed I couldn't do it.

You can argue we maybe give him until the end of the season (And I agree we likely will) but it is not crazy to be looking at what he's been given and looking at what he's producing and saying 'so far, this isn't even close to good enough'. Maybe it's 'give him time and see if it gets better', sure, but it's definitely not that the pressure is too high. If anything he's getting a pass on pressure and expectation that wouldn't exist in almost any other team

I think that if we fired him now we may as well be owned by Saputo. Revolving coaches rarely works in MLS and has never worked with us. You got to let him see out a reasonable cycle. Last year was the tear down (personally I think it was a travesty but it was his way of handling the year and it was directed toward this year of which we’re only (6?) matches in and currently in a playoff position. This year we really don’t know very much yet.

As far as I know there are certain business that don’t fit the model of the generic (office) department. Although waste and incompetence seem to be very high in most large businesses, Sports, Film, the international art world and others are something else apart.

[Graeme]

All this talk of spending...isn't this a salary-capped league? Barring the additional cost on our 2 DPs, 1 of whom is not currently playing, what exactly is the salary supposed to contribute to?

[JoesphNdo]

All this talk of spending...isn't this a salary-capped league? Barring the additional cost on our 2 DPs, 1 of whom is not currently playing, what exactly is the salary supposed to contribute to?

And TAM. But keep in mind, it was Bobs decision to spend it all on 2 DPs and just ignore having a third. It was also his decision to spend high on starters and, likely, break our cap leaving no room for backup

So while the spending advantage isn't as pronounced in MLS, the fact is spending the highest still means you should be contending at the top. If you're not, what's your excuse? Why can the others do it with less recources?

Now, Inisigne is injured. And like I said, I'm not on fire Bob yet, but that conversation starts if the next run of games sees us winless as summer approaches especially if Inisngne comes back and it's still not enough. There's some pretty bad signs looking in (I mean has TSN, in its history, ever criticized a high profile player before?) though that means while I'm not 'fire Bob' yet, I would guess it's likely I soon will be. Because if he doesn't look like he can turn this team into an mls cup contender, he should be shown the door. That's the equation. It's contend or bust, nothing else is acceptable

[Fort York Redcoat]

I remember the jealousy I was trying to bury watching that LAFC team he coached. That team had the best player in the league at the time. We have the highest paid player in the league.

While I think there is an element of that simplicity in his team building I don't believe it was him alone responsible for where his biggest stars came from. MLSE knows who to Market to. Doesn't mean they know how to build a winner again.

[Graeme]

But keep in mind, it was Bobs decision to spend it all on 2 DPs and just ignore having a third.

Was it?

[JoesphNdo]

Was it?

He's the GM, so it should have been. In absence of any other evidence, it's a natural assumption that the GM who has otherwise been seemingly given freedom to do what they want with the squad is also calling the shots on DPs. He'd have to get sign off from above, and may not have handled negotiation etc with the Italians, but I doubt that deal happens without him being part of the decision making process as roster construct is literally his job

If there's evidence against I'd hold my hands up but I doubt believe there is

[Hala Hrvatska]

He's the GM, so it should have been. In absence of any other evidence, it's a natural assumption that the GM who has otherwise been seemingly given freedom to do what they want with the squad is also calling the shots on DPs. He'd have to get sign off from above, and may not have handled negotiation etc with the Italians, but I doubt that deal happens without him being part of the decision making process as roster construct is literally his job

If there's evidence against I'd hold my hands up but I doubt believe there is

He's also handcuffed us with no striker....and brought in Kaye at quite the cost, and is turning into a bust.

The decision to go with no target man or elite CM and stick with his son, also is all on his head.

[Canary10]

He's the GM, so it should have been. In absence of any other evidence, it's a natural assumption that the GM who has otherwise been seemingly given freedom to do what they want with the squad is also calling the shots on DPs. He'd have to get sign off from above, and may not have handled negotiation etc with the Italians, but I doubt that deal happens without him being part of the decision making process as roster construct is literally his job

If there's evidence against I'd hold my hands up but I doubt believe there is

Who tells the boss to stop flipping through Transfermarkt?

[jloome]

Who tells the boss to stop flipping through Transfermarkt?

While I disagree with him starting Michael every game, because it's not realistic or defensively sound, I do believe Bradley has been stuck with a lot of financial problems from Curtis' era.

As far as I can determine, all the players we let go to other teams for nothing likely had us paying most of their salaries for the last two years. Under league rules, players waived are only charged the minimum against their new team's cap.

The team that waived them picks up the difference. As we released most of those players still in contract to other teams, their existing contract terms would have been in place, and even where the other team compensated us, we could have been liable for the difference.

On top of that -- and perhaps more importantly -- we have overpaid multiple players in the last six years, based on league standards. I'm not talking about the DPs; I'm talking about making the rest of the starters effectively TAM players, and then only bringing in contract-heavy older players to compensate those who left.

So it's entirely possible that he's making what he can of a very bad roster situation.

He may also want to sit Michael, at least occasionally, but genuinely believe his alternatives are more harmful. Whether that's nepotism, tactical rigidity or realism, I can't really say, as I'm not in his shoes and don't know what limitations he's facing.

Either way, we only know what we see from results, because the reporting on this team is terrible pack journalism, following pressers instead of developing and nurturing real sources.

I think Diomande's signing points to the roster situation being far more fucked up than we imagined. He KNOWS he needs an experienced, strong number nine, but the only guy we could afford with any pedigree was basically crocked.

So it's not as simple as people sometimes want it to be. Life rarely is. Seeing it in black-and-white is probably good for a person's ego, but it's not reality.

[rydermike]

All this talk of spending...isn't this a salary-capped league? Barring the additional cost on our 2 DPs, 1 of whom is not currently playing, what exactly is the salary supposed to contribute to?

Sure it's a cap league beyond the DPs, but if you have two Tier 1 league quality players (Bern and Insigne), you have to win.

Bernadeschi are not typical DPs. They are so far above that.

DPs in this league are usually those Tier 2 league stars or so. Soteldo was a DP. Pozuelo was a DP. Bernadeschi and Insigne are basically "Super-DPs". Anything less than a title should be considered a failure and building a team that if it turns out that this is only a borderline-playoff team with two of those guys then that will frankly be a roster-construction failure and mismanagement of resources (I'm willing to give it a few more weeks to see if they can turn it around, but I feel that our current midfield and striker woes won't really improve from the status quo). We have the same budget to spend on the "supporting roster" beyond the three DPs. The difference is our cherries on top are supposed to be the very best cherries in the league, but why is our ice cream tasting so much worse despite having the same money to buy ice cream as everyone else.

We blew all our cap space on TAM players that there is no depth. Instead of having solid subs/starters ala a Cheyrou, Beitashour, Morrow, younger Osorio, DeLeon, etc, who can be a starter for cheap or quality depth for solid depth through the top 18, we basically have no one after number 11/12 on the roster, which exposes us in injuries or second half adjustments. We did have albatross contracts from previous years that we did need to get rid of, but guys like Petretta, Laryea, Kaye, Osorio, Rosted, those are positions where if 1-2 of them were on 250-300k instead of all being 700k+ would free up enough to bring in an additional 3-4 quality bench players. Those players are good but in a cap league you need to find "quality bargains" which we don't have. When you have quality bargain players, it can help a team overcome having an overpaid/underperforming contract, but not having those means you get stuck using those underperforming players because there is no other choice

[JoesphNdo]

While I disagree with him starting Michael every game, because it's not realistic or defensively sound, I do believe Bradley has been stuck with a lot of financial problems from Curtis' era.

As far as I can determine, all the players we let go to other teams for nothing likely had us paying most of their salaries for the last two years. Under league rules, players waived are only charged the minimum against their new team's cap.

The team that waived them picks up the difference. As we released most of those players still in contract to other teams, their existing contract terms would have been in place, and even where the other team compensated us, we could have been liable for the difference.

On top of that -- and perhaps more importantly -- we have overpaid multiple players in the last six years, based on league standards. I'm not talking about the DPs; I'm talking about making the rest of the starters effectively TAM players, and then only bringing in contract-heavy older players to compensate those who left.

So it's entirely possible that he's making what he can of a very bad roster situation.

He may also want to sit Michael, at least occasionally, but genuinely believe his alternatives are more harmful. Whether that's nepotism, tactical rigidity or realism, I can't really say, as I'm not in his shoes and don't know what limitations he's facing.

Either way, we only know what we see from results, because the reporting on this team is terrible pack journalism, following pressers instead of developing and nurturing real sources.

I think Diomande's signing points to the roster situation being far more fucked up than we imagined. He KNOWS he needs an experienced, strong number nine, but the only guy we could afford with any pedigree was basically crocked.

So it's not as simple as people sometimes want it to be. Life rarely is. Seeing it in black-and-white is probably good for a person's ego, but it's not reality.

What players do you think are still on our cap, and do we know by how much? I do agree that if that's hurting our ability to construct a roster and hamstringing us then for sure it's something to consider and some context on the overall job Bradleys doing, though the choice to get rid of those players if they're still eating cap space then becomes very questionable

[Hala Hrvatska]

Sure it's a cap league beyond the DPs, but if you have two Tier 1 league quality players (Bern and Insigne), you have to win.

Bernadeschi are not typical DPs. They are so far above that.

DPs in this league are usually those Tier 2 league stars or so. Soteldo was a DP. Pozuelo was a DP. Bernadeschi and Insigne are basically "Super-DPs". Anything less than a title should be considered a failure and building a team that if it turns out that this is only a borderline-playoff team with two of those guys then that will frankly be a roster-construction failure and mismanagement of resources (I'm willing to give it a few more weeks to see if they can turn it around, but I feel that our current midfield and striker woes won't really improve from the status quo). We have the same budget to spend on the "supporting roster" beyond the three DPs. The difference is our cherries on top are supposed to be the very best cherries in the league, but why is our ice cream tasting so much worse despite having the same money to buy ice cream as everyone else.

We blew all our cap space on TAM players that there is no depth. Instead of having solid subs/starters ala a Cheyrou, Beitashour, Morrow, younger Osorio, DeLeon, etc, who can be a starter for cheap or quality depth for solid depth through the top 18, we basically have no one after number 11/12 on the roster, which exposes us in injuries or second half adjustments. We did have albatross contracts from previous years that we did need to get rid of, but guys like Petretta, Laryea, Kaye, Osorio, Rosted, those are positions where if 1-2 of them were on 250-300k instead of all being 700k+ would free up enough to bring in an additional 3-4 quality bench players. Those players are good but in a cap league you need to find "quality bargains" which we don't have. When you have quality bargain players, it can help a team overcome having an overpaid/underperforming contract, but not having those means you get stuck using those underperforming players because there is no other choice

Well said Mike.