Sad, but true. If not then perhaps in the post game interviews, which no one will be able to see.Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud
Sad, but true. If not then perhaps in the post game interviews, which no one will be able to see.
Last edited by NK Toronto; 03-13-2023 at 09:29 AM.
Yeah I agree. It’s so close when the ball leaves the players foot. It’s impossible to tell if that’s offside or not by the replay. It’s supposed to be clear and obvious but it wasn’t.
That said, I don’t think we can feel particularly hard done by with the result.
Nothing is inherently wrong with VAR, but only a fool would believe the PRO can/could use it correctly. Half of the refs use VAR to establish what they think is the right call in the moment, the other half don’t seem to understand it at all. Clear and obvious has becoming a running joke in MLS.
Last edited by Kamp Berg; 03-13-2023 at 09:52 AM.
Even if we do get an update have we been given any reason to believe what is said?
Bob said on the Thursday Media day before the Atlanta game: "Insigne is potentially able to play a part in Saturday's game" Yet he wasn't on the bench a week and a half later vs Columbus. To my knowledge I don't think he has released much more information on the matter either? Possibly a groin injury I think Mr Inbetween might have posted earlier somewhere? I'm not confident enough with answers like "You saw the game and watched him go down so you can have a pretty good idea what he is suffering from." My best guess is we will hear Raoul & siggi suffering from tightness in their legs. Dio & Ayo are back in some capacity training. Johnson took a day off to recover from getting hit in the head and back in training and good to go.
p.s. side note: can't stand watching Bob on the sidelines with his arms crossed non-emotional rigid demeanour...but if anything, I've noticed it matches how he likes the games to go, lack of changing formations or adapting during the games and such.
Yeah, I think that’s why this discussion has come late in the thread. I don’t think, either way, we were going to win that match.
I don’t agree. Expecting a ref to make a call after the fact, a call he or his team has already made… and to do it on a small screen under bad (too bright) lighting in front of the supporters sections with opposing players around him. May as well just toss a coin. The tech is wrong and psychologically it doesn’t follow either. Even if you have the monitor in a better place and restrict the players to another areas it still doesn’t look good to me.
But yeah, of course, our officials are underpaid and mostly inadequate. Asking them to do one more inherently complicated and tenuous thing is not a good idea either.
Offside needs to be semi automated like the world cup
Also, sorry lads, that goal was onside clearly and obviously all day every day. It is what it is.
Yeah, I don’t get the debate about this. In truth, it's the Atlanta goal called back for offside that is the questlonable call, of anything we have seen thus far.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I’m less debating the call than the technology and the conditions under which the technology is used. To me it interferes with the rhythm of the games and puts the focus too often on something that goes against the pleasure of watching football. The waiting to know what your eyes have seen. The players dumbly standing around waiting to find out what’s going on. The half forced, attenuated celebrations of the team that now finds out they’ve scored. Offside flags down while injuries occur so the play can be checked later on a monitor. To me, more is lost than gained.
But hey, that’s life these days. There is a lot less physical presence in any environment. Last time I sat at the waterfront on a lovely spring day I was one of the few looking at the spring day. Everyone else was on their screens and seemed not to know where they were.
To me it would be good if one goes to a football match and the most important moments did not take place away from the real time of the game, the watching and participating of the players and fans in the real time of the game.
^Oh I see that argument, dreamers - we agree there.
I was making a narrow argument. VAR got the Columbus goal right, and got the Atlanta disallowed goal wrong.
Last edited by ensco; 03-13-2023 at 05:47 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Did they though? I haven’t see a definitive angle on either goal, which is to my point. Calls on the field should stand unless clearly incorrect.
To be fair, I have not exhaustively searched all angles, but I have not seen any replay that I can look at and say yes/no for sure the player is/isn’t offside.
This will hopefully go away (at least for offside) as machine vision tech improves but we are not there yet and VAR isn’t resolving any controversy
When I looked at the video freeze frame, it looks extremely narrowly onside. However, it was by no means "clear and obvious" so the initial call should have stood. This abuse of VAR that we saw Saturday is exactly the type that caused a lot of unhappiness with VAR when it was first implemented in the EPL. You shouldn't be drawing lines on freeze frames to determine offside, VAR is supposed to catch obvious mistakes. Period.
It should also be a yellow card for players to interfere with video review like 2 Columbus players did during that review.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 03-14-2023 at 10:40 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
The basic point (which I disagree with) aside, If they are still with us, how do your Serie A household members feel about the current state of this part of football? It seems to me the tech hasn’t stopped the debates on numerous wrong or mysterious calls (the Columbus goal going against the letter of the MLS law - see Oldtimers post just above and others)… even with the reduced importance of the dinner table, the bar and social clubs.
Was my father and certain groups of friends and work colleagues; unfortunately most were of the Silent Generation and are no longer among us or too old, in no condition, for that passion. Honestly, if they were in their younger selves now, I am not sure how any would feel about this matter. I would like to think they would welcome and be accepting of it given some of the chaos in officiating at the time; but who knows? To me, the crux always seems to hinge on the 'clear and obvious' conditional aspect of this process; in of itself being subjective. I do agree with you, debates have not stopped. There are issues; on occasion significant. Still in totality, subjective to my own sense and perception, and not privy to or based yet on any comparative metrics/data, I still think VAR benefits 'The Beautiful Game' more than hinders it.
BTW, there is legitimacy in the sort of chicken-and-egg dilemma and battle currently facing match officiating. VAR was introduced to help competent referees make the right call; be better. Or VAR diminishes any agenda to make referees competent; allows a standard to stagnate or become worse by de-facto reliance.
Thanks for answering!
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