TFC 2023 player in-season roster discussion

[jloome]

The other thing is the equation changes so so much on this kind of signing

You sign an elite level Italian winger on 14m a season, you pretty much can't afford to fail, ever. And you also guarantee you'll neer get a penny back on resale, so they better deliver all of their value on the field and sell alot of jerseys and tickets off it. No ifs ands or buts, it's succeed by dominating the league or have it be branded a complete failure

You sign a young dp at low wages who, if he succeeds, has resale value which could cover the expense of signing a few of them? A 20% success rate is probably enough to make the whole thing break even between potential money you recoup over the long term and improved on field performances vs expense and cap/roster spot hit

Crapshoot is a vague term but if you can get to a point where you think this kind of signing works out even around 1 out of 3 or just under 1 out of 2 times, you've actually struck gold.

You can't assess these as one offs, or decide if it's good or bad based on if one person fails or not. You need a large sample and to accept that many will fail and many will be 'just okay' and that's perfectly fine for this strategy

Seems a good risk to me.

[Ultra & Proud]

You sign a young dp at low wages who, if he succeeds, has resale value which could cover the expense of signing a few of them? A 20% success rate is probably enough to make the whole thing break even between potential money you recoup over the long term and improved on field performances vs expense and cap hit

The other factor is that the $14M DP just got his money so his only motivation is if he really cares about his legacy and the team paying him that $$$. The young guy on the other hand still has to be 100% motivated and prove himself to get the big, big contract so until he does, hustle and fight should always be happening.

[Mr. Inbetween]

No, it's not.

I'm pretty sure. That account has never broken anything that wasn't out 10 mins earlier on google news or twitter. Unless he happens to be from the same town in South Africa and getting games by some sort of subscription, I see no way he could possibly have "watched him play a few times".

There ARE however highlights from his Champions League games on youtube.

They're not very impressive; in fact, the reason I posted that OTHER highlight reel was because I'd seen the aforementioned already and he looked unimpressive, but the highlight reel of his OTHER appearances in the league was quite good.

Believe it may be available in Canada on beIN? Son knows some Wydad AC fanatics.

[leedsandTFC]

I still don't believe him. "I just happened to be watching a South African club team on an app that has dozens of football matches and...I also just happen to be a TFC aggregator and... I also just happened to notice how good this guy was, despite him not actually doing anything in that tournament... and..."

Yeah whatever. He's full of shit, would be my take. But I'm a cynic.

Also, a lot of the stuff on Fubo, including beIn and One Soccer, is not easy to find.

The sub channels aren't listed in their daily soccer schedule, you have to know they're on and look for them. I just spent two years watching Fubo almost daily and never noticed African league games, ever. And I partly grew up in Angola, so I WOULD take an interest.

So again, unless he's South African, I don't believe him.

I don't think he'd seen him before, and I don't believe TFC "noticed" or "scouted" him. They look continually at statistics from multiple leagues and have online databases that are sub only and more up to date than transfermarket. They saw 15 goals in 31 this year and that was their scouting, I believe.

bein sports is the top channel when you open the app, wouldn't be hard to find, and the sundowns are one of if not the best team in africa so wouldn't be that crazy to believe someone wanted to watch them play in CAF.

regardless, doesn't really matter.

this guy has talent, the key thing will be whether he can settle in a new country at such a young age and adjust to a different style of footy. big ask for a young man.

[jloome]

Believe it may be available in Canada on beIN? Son knows some Wydad AC fanatics.

Yeah, and beIn is available through FUBO, as Leeds has already pointed (although again, their listings are not on the app, and htey are not listed in Fubo's football schedule). I still don't believe him. The dude we're talking about is not "stick out like a sore thumb" talented. His CAF higlights are online and htey're not nearly as impressive as his domestic league highlights... so what would he have noticed?

Also, that's one of the most scouted tournaments in the world. I guarantee you through their online database subscriptions they had some raw data on him before his stat line caught TFC's eye.

[jloome]

this guy has talent, the key thing will be whether he can settle in a new country at such a young age and adjust to a different style of footy. big ask for a young man.

Also, is he talented at S.A. football speed, or is he talented at higher level speed? Lots of guys look like goals-scoring world beaters at USL level then get to MLS and look like it's just too quick, defenses too organized. The looks they get where they are happen to be longer than the looks they get at a higher level. For all in the individual talent, South Africa's league is not ranked that highly on the balance.

Wrexham fans kept asking why an MLS team hadn't gone in for Paul Mullin after their promotion, and I tried explaining that most of the looks he got in those last two games wouldn't have even happened here, the defender would've closed on him before he got the shot off. In his one year in league one, he had eight goals.

Granted, he's older and wilier now, but a lot of the difference in levels in football is sheer athleticism. There are a ton of guys who have the ball skills and smarts at lower levels that are just never strong or quick enough to move up.

[leedsandTFC]

Also, is he talented at S.A. football speed, or is he talented at higher level speed? Lots of guys look like goals-scoring world beaters at USL level then get to MLS and look like it's just too quick, defenses too organized. The looks they get where they are happen to be longer than the looks they get at a higher level. For all in the individual talent, South Africa's league is not ranked that highly on the balance.

Wrexham fans kept asking why an MLS team hadn't gone in for Paul Mullin after their promotion, and I tried explaining that most of the looks he got in those last two games wouldn't have even happened here, the defender would've closed on him before he got the shot off. In his one year in league one, he had eight goals.

Granted, he's older and wilier now, but a lot of the difference in levels in football is sheer athleticism. There are a ton of guys who have the ball skills and smarts at lower levels that are just never strong or quick enough to move up.

yep.

i would note that 538's algorithm of ranking clubs currently has the sundowns 50 higher than tfc.

[Mr. Inbetween]

^^
Ahem... Terence Boyd.

[OgtheDim]

Adjusting to the speed of play & tactical weirdness of MLS is always the question.

There are worse bets.

[FiveThreeTwo]

This feels like a short term flip- most always start out that way I guess, but if he was looked at by Monaco and other clubs - maybe their mindset was, nice - let’s see you grow your skills and prove this in a slightly more competitive league with more cameras then we’ll talk. Ur not a teenager anymore so we can’t just dump you in our junior program and you aren’t gonna get first team minutes.

Tbh I wouldn’t even care if that was the best case scenario - he keeps on playing with positivity impact player with goals and assists, and those EU teams come looking after seeing some validation and he moves on in 2 years

I know some folks might disagree with that risk or situation but if we wanna be a serious club that’s agile again in player movement and looking to build back better connections in regions with scouts and people on the ground - it’s worth the punt.

[jloome]

yep.

i would note that 538's algorithm of ranking clubs currently has the sundowns 50 higher than tfc.

That algorithm has all sorts of weirdness in it and frequently over-ranks the best teams from weaker leagues, even though they would over the course of a season generally get slaughtered in higher leagues.

(Not that isn't right in this case; we're dire right now. It also sometimes underrates; it had the aformentioned Wrexham about a thousand places lower than Forge at one point, which to anyone who has watched both leagues is absolutely ridiculous).

I'm not saying there's not a lot of talent there, as I grew up in West Africa. It's everywhere. My sense, however, is that defensively and in term of structural rigor African teams tend to be weaker than those in bigger leagues. The individual offensive talent is often brilliant.

Having said that, his highlights don't look brilliant, just professionally competent. But as we have no professionally competent strikers right now, I have to figure it's an improvement. At least he knows how to keep it low and to the corners.

[jloome]

^^
Ahem... Terence Boyd.

Yeah, perfect example. Shit in the Bundesliga and MLS, great in the German regional division 3, pretty good in Bundesliga 2 on the second go around. He's really a guy who fits where he fits. His size and athleticism probably fit a more formal, positionally rigid style of play than this league ever provides.

[jloome]

So I did a little checking and it turns out Mailula divides his time between right wing and striker, but plays more from right wing. They didn't move him to striker in the league until the last few weeks of the season.

He also didn't score in the league as a striker over three or four games, all nine league goals were from right wing.

He did start two games during a cup tournament at striker and scored a couple. He also played left wing, second striker... they basically moved him where they thought he could best attack their opposition.

So now, looking at that, I'm thinking they see him as a right-sided forward. That would put him more in realm of where Fede plays, but maybe they see him as a striker project.

I suspect they realized halfway through the season he would be in demand as they appeared to start resting him against weaker opponents.

[jloome]

I am told they are hiring a new head of "player care and performance" whose job is to ensure the on-field coaching is in sync with the physios' demands and requests. They have identified an ideal candidate.

Up until now, it has not been, possibly leading to the player injury toll.

Also, they're still looking at strikers and were interested in Alfredo Morelos, ex of Rangers, but have been told he's signing at Everton within the next few days.

If that doesn't happen, they will inquire.

We'll see, I guess, as Morelos himself said today that "nothing is close."

His significant red card accumulation worries them a bit.

[leedsandTFC]

I am told they are hiring a new head of "player care and performance" whose job is to ensure the on-field coaching is in sync with the physios' demands and requests. They have identified an ideal candidate.

Up until now, it has not been, possibly leading to the player injury toll.

Also, they're still looking at strikers and were interested in Alfredo Morelos, ex of Rangers, but have been told he's signing at Everton within the next few days.

If that doesn't happen, they will inquire.

We'll see, I guess, as Morelos himself said today that "nothing is close."

His significant red card accumulation worries them a bit.

Damn.

Morelos would be quality.

[JoesphNdo]

I don't watch the spl at all but the mariner scouting...for as low a level and as good a team in it as he's playing at, that goal record doesn't say quality to me. Is he more of a support forward?

[jloome]

I don't watch the spl at all but the mariner scouting...for as low a level and as good a team in it as he's playing at, that goal record doesn't say quality to me. Is he more of a support forward?

He's been trying to force a move for two or three seasons now, so he fell out with the coaches and spent a lot of time last year coming off the bench, playing with very little interest.

But his career record is a goal every 140 minutes, with 175 goals in 352 games.

He scored 11 in the SPL last year but that was in only 1,400 minutes total.

He also has seven red cards lifetime. He's temperamental and thinks he should be playing at a higher level (and perhaps should be, as Rangers turned down offers allegedly from Ligue 1 and La Liga when he was still in favor).

So he might not be the kind of influence they want after everything goes down. But in ability, he's a 15-20 plus goalscorer in MLS.

[Areathrasher]

Isn't he a fat lunatic?

[jloome]

Isn't he a fat lunatic?

He's a fat goalscoring lunatic. (I think he's just a little tank, not fat. Beale said a few months ago he's been fat tested at rangers and was the same weight as when they won the title.)

[JoesphNdo]

With that history of problems and it being a few seasons since he scored at a decent clip at what is quite a low level...I don't see it. High risk for something unproven, and if he has any kind of discipline record throwing him into a dressing room that seems completely toxic without much leadership...seems like a recipe for disaster

[jloome]

With that history of problems and it being a few seasons since he scored at a decent clip at what is quite a low level...I don't see it. High risk for something unproven, and if he has any kind of discipline record throwing him into a dressing room that seems completely toxic without much leadership...seems like a recipe for disaster

Yeah, could be. Like I said, my little bird made a point that they're leery of his discipline. I imagine, too, he'd be sort of like the Italians in that he doesn't really want to be here and would demand large DP money.

[Areathrasher]

He's a fat goalscoring lunatic. (I think he's just a little tank, not fat. Beale said a few months ago he's been fat tested at rangers and was the same weight as when they won the title.)

Rangers fans on another football forum I'm on say he enjoyed the nightlife a bit too much in Glasgow. Given all the locker room issues here I wouldn't go for him.

[Yuushalinsky]

so far this isn't looking too bad - if we can keep Manning focused on schmoozing and his hands out of the soccer side, maybe we'll be OK.

[Valdal]

Check out this tweet at [URL="https://twitter.com/Total_TFC/status/1681403345532071946"]Total TFC on Twitter: "Negotiations between Bologna and Bernardeschi continue to progress. Having found a willingness to talk to the player about salary issues, Bologna will now start working with Toronto FC to figure out the formula of a potential deal. [via @TuttoBolognaWeb] https://t.co/BXWCcKK6Vp" / Twitter[/URL][COLOR=#333333][/COLOR]

[Valdal]

Check out this tweet at [URL="https://twitter.com/EricNdagije250/status/1681343767247290368"]Eric NDAGIJIMANA on Twitter: "���� Simba SC���� expect Pape Sakho���� to leave the club . Sakho���� would leave Simba for $872k plus $18k. Sakho, set for new challenge after 2 years at Simba SC���� He has been approached by MLS clubs (Toronto FC) but France League two looks most likely destination. https://t.co/mnr31OJYR6" / Twitter[/URL][COLOR=#333333][/COLOR]

[Valdal]

Check out this tweet at [URL="https://twitter.com/Total_TFC/status/1681635407358750722"]Total TFC on Twitter: "����➡️ Toronto FC have made a $1.6 million offer to sign Cassius Mailula from Mamelodi Sundowns. �� The player has been given permission to discuss personal terms with TFC. The transfer is now imminent, pending medicals and other details. [via @SABC_Sport] https://t.co/sC0mQghbwF" / Twitter[/URL][COLOR=#333333][/COLOR]

[ag futbol]

I am told they are hiring a new head of "player care and performance" whose job is to ensure the on-field coaching is in sync with the physios' demands and requests. They have identified an ideal candidate.

Up until now, it has not been, possibly leading to the player injury toll.

Also, they're still looking at strikers and were interested in Alfredo Morelos, ex of Rangers, but have been told he's signing at Everton within the next few days.

If that doesn't happen, they will inquire.

We'll see, I guess, as Morelos himself said today that "nothing is close."

His significant red card accumulation worries them a bit.

Things like this defy belief. Bill Manning overseas the entire franchise with the care and attention to detail of me ordering a pizza from dominos.

Nobody did a deep dive as to why we have been ravaged with injuries until now despite it being a major issue for years. This is the obvious answer?

We just get half way out of one locker room hellscape and their next thought is to sign a guy with questions about his character?

I’m starting to think we should view TFC like a shitty reality tv series as opposed to a football club. The dysfunction is just bound to be more entertaining than the football.

[reggie]

Things like this defy belief. Bill Manning overseas the entire franchise with the care and attention to detail of me ordering a pizza from dominos.

Nobody did a deep dive as to why we have been ravaged with injuries until now despite it being a major issue for years. This is the obvious answer?

We just get half way out of one locker room hellscape and their next thought is to sign a guy with questions about his character?

I’m starting to think we should view TFC like a shitty reality tv series as opposed to a football club. The dysfunction is just bound to be more entertaining than the football.

manning is a usl AAA baseball caliber prez.he will never take tfc to the next level.lied about the safe standing the supporters groups are a mess.all he cares about is ST count.in a city like toronto every game should be a sell out and waiting list,he is a part time prez.

MANNING OUT

[JoesphNdo]

The more I think about the fact that we're looking at Alfredo Morelos the worse it seems

Has Manning learned *nothing*!? His lesson from this whole debacle is "Go find someone even more disruptive than the Italians but with 1/1000th of the pedigree". Not even getting into quality but all of the baggage associated with our locker room and all of the baggage associated with Morelos and they think this is a good idea!?

[jloome]

The more I think about the fact that we're looking at Alfredo Morelos the worse it seems

Has Manning learned *nothing*!? His lesson from this whole debacle is "Go find someone even more disruptive than the Italians but with 1/1000th of the pedigree". Not even getting into quality but all of the baggage associated with our locker room and all of the baggage associated with Morelos and they think this is a good idea!?

Yeah, don't lay it too hard on them for that. I think they just looked out of due diligence, I get no sense they're seriously interested. I asked if they'd looked at him and that's what I got. It wasn't offered up as someone they're hot on, just that they'll look at him if he remains available.

I think the mention of his red cards was probably to dissuade my interest. Sometimes, I think they're throwing out stuff or answering stuff largely to placate a sense it might come from the fan base, rather than just me asking.

The physio/coaching situation though is ridiculous. How it got that far is just absurd.