^ I don't see Auro Jr listed on there and we technically declined his contract extension for 2023 back in November. Even though he didn't play for us last year either.
I would also be interested to see how many left before the start of 2022 season since Bob has taken over...
Here is our 2021 final roster. I put stars next to Laryea (since he left and returned) and Singh (loaned out twice)Originally Posted by 613reppingTFC
oh nice thanks for going through that. I was going to start doing something similar but i'm at work..ugh always gets in the way when i'm trying to look up my TFC stuff haha
edit: wow what a crazy turnover we have had in the last two seasons..well let's call it 14 months...
Last edited by 613reppingTFC; 03-03-2023 at 11:31 AM.
You also have to remember for about a 2 month period (April-May) the Reds roster was even in more flux due to injury, 1-4 TFC II players were being signed to short term deals week in, week out for that period. Things were not in great shape.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
I would say that's an oversight to be added/included.
Great follow-up and update.
Agree, nuts! Presented in this manner, I would say an unmitigated tear-down and re-build; no?
Even more in-flux additions to the chaos.
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 03-04-2023 at 03:13 AM.
Correct, no suggestion TFC is still in the running. The latest... apparently, Steve Cooper is suggesting a 'MLS move not off the table for Lewis O’Brien'.
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/OwenBarnard_02/status/1632146947917201409
How things change overnight... Well, as some in the community suspected, the length of Lewis O'Brien's loan may be an issue. Does not appear a TFC destination is one of the options. Yet, should we still take him on a 'free' until just the summer window if the opportunity presents itself?
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/NottmForestNews/status/1632297348184375296
I don’t think so. Before the season I sat on the fence, but two games in I think it’s a flat no now. Game over game continuity is an asset in this league and I’m not sure the temporary upgrade in skill is worth the hit to squad chemistry in the long run.
Go get a striker this window this is unacceptable especially after last nights performance and it's clear the mid is too slow.
Go do something now don't wait for the summer window this is starting to get frustrating and patience is thining.
We still have an open DP spot which blows my mind and all I hear is TFC is a big club....
I can see Diomande's quality in how he moves and where he moves to and his first touch; but he's 33 and coming off a couple of dud seasons. He was so bad last night, and I think he knew it. When he came off, my first thought was "he just wants to get the hell out of there."
Just nothing went right for the guy. He was usually in the right spot to receive the first ball, but couldn't succesfully hold it up and distribute, as his passing was just terrible.
I don't think we can count on him rounding into his old shape; it was probably a bad gamble. Either way, we should be using the extra DP spot for the certainty of a clinical finisher.
Absolutely agree on all points.
Unfortunately, it looks like the DP won't happen because of cap space. Just tells you how bad management has been. It's honestly insane to be so cap tight that a 3rd DP is off the table.
How is it that we are still in cap hell as I believe we’ve run out all the bad contracts from the Curtis years?
We have so many TAM players. Johnson, Petretta, Rosted, Hedges, Laryea, Bradley, Osorio, Kaye.
Our entire starting XI is either TAM or DP (only striker isnt and Akinola is a U22).
Good teams usually have a quality starter or two on like a 200k deal. We dont. We had to TAM at every spot and have no depth as a result
The hope is that Miami signs Messi and they have to change all the roster mechanisms instead. Can't see him coming to MLS to play with ancient Martinez & Robinson. He will want his buddies with him.
I'm not surprised. This is why it is so important to have your academy produce some starting quality players who you can sign on reasonable contracts.
And, when they do, don't just give them away
Given the state of our midfield having Nelson on the roster might have been a good idea, especially since he would be surrounded by veteran players. Sometimes young players can have a break out year.
Toronto linked to Belotti... again. (Don't throw things at me! I know this is most likely agent nonsense.)
https://www.calciostyle.it/notizie/r...ra-gol-e-soldi
Didn’t we receive in the range of one million in GAM from that sale? Was it already spent or can we do something with it in the summer? Richie is on 1.2 million or so. Probably too much for a wing back in this league playing right back. If he leaves in the summer and we replace him with someone half his salary, that alone should pay for the salary cap hit for a DP.
Appreciate you being first to broach this subject again. Aware of the intranets chatter, but been keeping my thoughts holstered on this notion. Do not think we are flogging a dead horse nor is it solely Agent positioning. IIUC, believe Belotti's contact with Roma is tied to performance markers... situation kinda like, but not matches played per se, a la Benezet. Currently, Bellotti is not a regular starter at all and when he does sub-in it's either between the 60th to 70th minutes or literally with only minutes left; even in extra-time. I do not think it is how he truly expected his experience at Roma would go; second or third option, even though it seemed obvious. Think some love (of empty words) was expressed by Mourinho to get him signed. I do not expect Belotti to be at the club after season end. Where will he go? Fiorentina? Turkiye? No to Barca; seems club is subject to a La Liga Summer Transfer Ban? Consensus may be coalescing towards TFC needs a DP striker asap. Whatever is understood to be the Capology position of the club, hopefully not as 'Oprah' fcuked as 'everyone gets a TAM', I cannot believe TFC has not blocked out/reserved the required basic charge amount for that action. IIUC, and the 2022 season rule may still be in effect... 'a Designated Player who is at least 24 years old during the League Year will carry the Maximum Salary Budget Charge ($612,500) unless the player joins his club after the opening of the Secondary Transfer Window, in which case his budget charge will be $306,250'. Otherwise is it bye-bye Akinola and/or Diomande by intra-league trade or with the new in-season buy-out ruling change? Still does not seem to be the year of Perruzza?
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 03-07-2023 at 05:02 AM.
Ok crazy idea what about playing LI in the middle of a 4-2-3-1. Bringing him more into the middle (which he has played in his career) sets him up nicely to control the central attack and midfield and rely less on MB (not saying he isn’t involved but not the central player). Have LI take control of the ball and make positive runs and passes around and in between the final defence. It would also set him up to be prepared to shot from distance and play off the strikers. That way we move Diomande/Akinola into more poachers and tactical opportunists.
Effectively we build our offence around our two most expensive players… And thereby 1) free up space for strikers, 2) be in great shape for his long shot 3) play off of Bernie and Richie on the right 4) Play off Osorio and Petretta on the left.
Both of our WBs like to run the overlaps to attack the box, set up the strikers for the cross, or pull it back into LIs feet in the middle. Having two deeper midfielders isn’t a bad thing either. Based on the first two games and the LA game, we need it. Gives us more time to thing about the DP, which if it works would make someone like Belotti a nasty target that we still need (or maybe we have) and and most importantly connects our two most lethal players.
I believe there is value in Polish players and/or footballers in the Ekstraklasa. Thought Sebastian Kowalczyk (24) was a candidate for TFC. So Knap (21) as a U-22 singing? Sure... maybe?
We really are poorly built.
When I look at how competitive St. Louis is in year one, and how Nancy has Columbus reacting to his style in two weeks, my confidence in our staff flags even further.
It's like we're trying to do everything inorganically. "We have two players worth $20M a season, and another who has to play every game at 35. Base the tactics around that."
Plus, no cap space as we overpay for everyone. I just noticed yesterday that Seattle's wingback Nouhou, one of the best in the league, has just signed a new three-year-deal and expected to get a raise from his wage of ... $300K.
I think we're badly overpaying for players rather than being patient and seeking out bargains, and now we have no money left for depth or speed.
It's all just mismanagement, isn't it? They've always had more money than the church, so they don't worry about things like value for money, or balance, or cohesion.
Having watched us for two games, this roster looks: a) out of sync. They've all been playing together now for a year, bar petretta and the central defenders, and yet it looks like we can't string three passes together without being intercecpted. b) so slow in the midfield compared to other teams that we might as well be playing with six at the back.
This past week, we were good defensively. But our off-the-ball movement -- rotations, triangles, whatever the fuck you want to label it -- were so slow, or so absent, that we couldn't hook anythign up offensively. If Richie's dummy run doesn't freeze Andrew Gutman for a split second, maybe Bernie's shot is even blocked and we get nothing.
We are creating NOTHIGN from open play, back to last year. The Charlotte game, where they bunkered in fear of the newly arrived Italians, was the only time we weren't basically bailed out by an Insigne or Bernadeschi wonder goal.
That is still the case. Guys are just making the wrong calls, again and again, on crosses to the free man at the back post, on short passes to progress play -- pausing and always looking for something better, inviting a press.
Who the fuck is coaching these guys? We have the most expensive payroll in MLS, but they move together like weekend players.
Plus, they always have that stunned "I'm trying to think of too many things I need to do" look that Leeds players had under Marsch. One of the first things Tyler Adams commented on after Marsch was fired was that the new coach calmed them down by reducing the massive checklist of responsiblites MArsch was asking them to consider. Gracia simplified their game (and addressed a lack of tactical width) and they were instantly, instantly more dangerous offensively.
Bob was also Preki's mentor as a coach. He is a very defensively responsible manager, not just a "free flowing possession" guy, as frequently advertised by mlssoccer.com
But I do worry that we're overcomplicating it to the point they're inert, death by a thousand choices, whilst also leaving out the nitty gritty of how to achieve their goals in our zone.
One of Stephen Gerrard's players at Villa after he left said the problem was he was too good a player; he expected them to just "know" things they didn't. "He'd tell us what to do, but not how specifically to do it," he said (I'm paraphrasing from memory, apologies). "So he'd tell us to move to a certain area to support a teammate, but not how to make sure we can recieve and turn with the ball in double pressure when we moved there."
I sort of wonder if we're just concentraiting on a long list of tendences, overboggling them with what is supposed to happen, rather than keeping it simple and instead focussing their training on how to break out of traps, bad situatons, double teams.
We're trying to work the ball to certain areas that are more dangerous -- the top two corners of the box, for example, as primary attack points -- but we're not working on creating space in the box to attack by shifting defenders with tactical, prescribed movement.
That's just what it looks like from the outside. I could be completely wrong. But you can find tactical interviews with guys like Tata Martino, a guy who has never had a sub .500 season, and he's quite specific that he doesn't just manage, he coaches on the field, and he is very specific about not just what he needs but how to achieve it.
I think Nancy, with his time in youth development, is that way, too.
But adapting to the squad would be easier if the squad was built for flexibility. As it is, we are probably the least flexible lineup in the league, the most dependent on the same players doing the same things, because they are good at specific things, not a broad pallette.
Oso isn't really a speed merchant. His finishing is okay, but he's not driving to goal. He holds up the ball, beats a guy, slips a pass. That's his skillset.
MAK is a two way progressive passer. This week, he was alos much better both blocking and tackling, but that might largely be because he was pinned in our end. (Maybe he should really be a number six? Just a thought. Despite people in LA saying he can't tackle, he sure managed it this week. He had five.) Normally, his skill is receiving, using his long stride to gain a few yards space, then finding the player ahead.
Coincidentally, that's largely also MB's skill set. He's never been a strong tackler, but he blocks well and fills passing lanes well. He connects front and back.
So none of them play defense as a strength. But equally, none of could even be said to have "balanced" skill sets. As good as they are at short passing, they're all terrible in the air. As good as they are at finding a few feet of space to retain possessio, none of them has dangerous speed.
That's the problem. THe players we most need to be well rounded arent'.
The two superstars don't seem to like each other -- I mean, they're from rival clubs so maybe we shouldv'e expected that, and one is a quiet family guy while the other is a playboy. But more, they dont' seem to have confidence their teammates will be in the right place, because they're too inconsistent.
That's at least partly due to how we train movement, I'm sure. If they KNEW a player would be in a supportive location before looking, if they KNEW a triangle would give them two options every time without huge defensive pressure on at least one outlet, we'd be moving the ball smoothly.
But we're not. It's a poorly constructed lineup, regardless of what's been spent on it. They need to adapt to what they've got. The tactics and approach our coaching has taken to getting them to work together has so far not worked.
Maybe last week and this, playing the 4-2-3-1 offensively, were a sign Bob is adapting us tactically. But it seems begrudging and far too slow; two systems and differnet shape offensively and defensively? That somehow manages to be both arrogantly optimistic and stubbornly non-accepting, all at the same time.
Get us a dangerous striker, play the 4-2-3-1 consistently so the backline is shielded by at least one midfielder in a double pivot, then get down to having the ball move quickly and smoothly (especially quickly. our ball movement is turgid.)
We have the talent to go far, but we won't get there unless it becomes about adapting to who we have, rather than making them learn a system.
Last edited by jloome; 03-07-2023 at 01:26 PM.
On just one minor note
Be VERY careful about saying St. Louis is competitive.
a) they are using the Red Bull model - that has yet to work much past August
b) they have been gifted 2 goals in circumstances which in many leagues would have had people saying "was that scripted or did somebody gambling get to that guy?"
Well.... okay, when they stop winning games and being competitive, I'll be careful about calling them competitive. Right now, I don't think it's inaccurate.
Their squad average score is 6.84, well above us. They're averaging fourteen shots per game.
They're competitive. I'm sure depth, travel etc will hit htem and the rush of being new will wear off, and they'll lose lots of games. But... they mostly just got here. Most of our team has been together now for nine months and they look like they've barely played together.
STL was wise and frankly fortunate to have some of their bigger pieces, DPs included, playing for STL2 last season so there's more gel there than the average expansion team.
A point on the cap situation - are we sure that we are tapped out? I wasn't able to read the Molinaro article that touched on budget so it's conceivable that the answer to my question is already out there.
Really? Out of our Starting XI 5-6 have been newcomers this season.
I feel like folks should listen to the media of Raoul last week. Guy doesn't even have a place to live in Toronto yet its all moved so fast. Not sure how we can expect them to have instant chemistry. He talked about that.
Not on offense. We have a striker who's new but has worked in this system for three prior seasons, Diomande.
Our defense, which IS new, looks more cohesive than our offence, which isn't.
Competitive to me is where a team looks after 4-5 games and then where they are after half a season, 3/4 and a full one.
I put little to no stock in the first 2 weeks for any team, beyond tendencies - which you get right mostly, BTW.
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