Waiting for the Kerr for Teibert trade to go down.Originally Posted by ag futbol
Waiting for the Kerr for Teibert trade to go down.
If Kerr could just learn how to hold up the ball and get it out of his feet faster we’d really have something to work with.
Watching this team, I don’t understand why there isn’t more of an attempt to vary the attack. We basically try and do 2 things: have Insigne and Berna attack the net by cutting in or play between the lines in some sort of intricate passing arrangement. Why don’t we cross? Why don’t the fullbacks and forwards attack the end line? Why aren’t guys pinching forward on occasion to crash the box?
Leaving that aside, I’m with Jloome on Insigne’s play. What we’ve seen the last few games has been dour. Forget DP status, he’s not even worth TAM money the way he’s playing right now. If not for the transfer implications I think he should be dropped. If he plays like this next year he can get acquainted with the bench.
And the scary thing is this is the time they should be playing to impress the new coach. What chance is there of this getting better.
Diomanded - 166 Minutes
Akinola- 555 Minutes
Sapong- 1303 Minutes
Owusu - 60 Minutes
Mailula - 26 Minutes
Guitteriez - 58 Minutes
Because our two quarterbacks refuse to play that way.
What you're describing is how we've ATTEMPTED to play for the last four games. We've only managed it in one, against Philly. In the others, it's the same old story. The Italians get frustrated early and stop passing, then everyone else follows queue and stops moving it quickly. Our momentum dies and they're all over us.
Same shit, different weekend. Get rid of them both. Fuck.
I’m at the point where if they can’t be moved, just nail them to the bench.
They’re being outplayed by teenagers on 1/10th their salary.
How is Insigne not humiliated by that display last night? He lost the ball SIX times without any of them being passes: 2 dispossesions and 4 bad controls.
(A match rating of 6.29 for an Italian international in this league should be humiliating, end of.)
Right now, their stat for "bad controls per game" for the season stands at 2.5 for Fede and 2.1 for Insigne, and their dispossessions per at 1.8 and 0.8 respectively. So they're good for, basically, eight lost possessions per game just from holding onto the fucking ball.
That's horrendous. It's probably the highest in the league by a factor of nearly 100%.
Herdmann should role Cash, Prince and Kerr up front for the last few games and see what happens.
If I were running the show and I couldn't move them then I would sit them at home to stew and hopefully that embarrassment/insult would be enough to make them consider mutual termination of their contracts.
100%. If there are issues and they are not willing to change for the better in whatever way is needed then sit them at home. In the end, I bet they love to play soccer and really want to play so maybe that is a hard lesson for them to learn by not letting them. They either figure out they are not above the team or they don't play again and like you said, agree to take the money they already made and leave to go play somewhere else. Right now on the field they are not playing like the talent/leaders they should be with all the walking around, throwing hands in the air, looking at teammates when they lose the ball as if it is the other player's fault. Not a good look for them right now.
Billy Sharp, lifetime goal leader in the Championship, 37 years old. The defending in this league is so ass that he has five goals in his last three games, including a hat-trick last night.
He's an excellent player, but he's 37. And yet no one bothers to tightly mark him for most of his 2/3rds of a game.
He's also a leader on the field, pumped all the time. Even at 37, he'd have been a wiser signing on character alone than either of our DPs or Sapong.
Yes, he should.
I mean, what is there to add at this point. They were horrendous last night, fucking horrendous.
Go back and look at the last thirty minutes. At several points, Insigne is the only open player near Osorio outside the box, and Osorio resists giving it to him over and over, because he knows he's going to be selfish and waste it.
As tough as he's had it since his injury, I fucking feel for him, having to play with these egotistical ass clowns.
We really need a leader out there. Someone with a take no prisoners approach.
Unfortunately MB’s decline in play and hiring his dad as coach really deterred his effectiveness in the locker room. We’ve been absent that voice since that time.
Have to feel happy for Alex Bono though. He's played 465 minutes since Tyler Miller got injured and given up one unstoppable goal (last night). Playing his socks off. Seems to be able to see the ball now. I wonder if he got contacts, or if the pressure of living up to 2017 was always just too much.
Or maybe we need new goalkeeping coaching.
Yeah with insigne and berna we’re getting into area where it’s adaptability problems. Who cares if they could end up being world beaters and mvp level quality- they are never going to do it through being adaptable and team orientated; playing off the players that are around them and playing more pragmatic ways that get the job done and get us wins and goals. Not with Bob, not with TD, not with herdman. They just aren’t those type of people.
If we only see their best when they grinning and smiling, and every player and coach are carving a system around their one trick pony needs/approach of cutting inside and trying to pull defenders out with one-twos (and failing) so they can get the ball to make a shot on net 1 every 10 attempts. It’s not worth it… at all, to put up with that level of ‘rider’ these two prima donnas need just to be able to be serviceable and have their weaknesses and poor habits covered lol. I mentioned in game thread but big money DPs in this league should buy you utility and range of playing and adaptability, while having good character & humility about the moment in hand - these two have neither and that won’t ever change.
Look at mukhtar - that man doesn’t give a rats ass on how other players around him view the game or want to play it. He gets the ball, moves it quickly, uses individual skill to cut through lines with a killer ball or open up space with the dribble, and he sets up players like shaff who run behind… or creates own opportunities - which ever is best option. He adapts his game around others’ decisions. He’s not stomping around if a player doesn’t pass to his feet, or a winger can’t trap a shitty ball he delivered out wide. He’s not throwing tantrums if a midfield isn’t forming a perfect triangle so he can work the one two angles. He just gets on with it, and adapts. Prime Valeri, Gauld, zelaryan.. etc same. That’s what 7 to 14M a year should get you, albeit on a whole other tier lol; not a player who only likes to cut Inside from the same zone in the field every time, and has 1 or 2 plays in their head and tries to play hero ball.
Best thing that could happen is we close the book completely here and hopefully let herdman start with no DPs and a blank slate - wishful thinking tho.
Yeah, you and I are usually on the same page, and this is no exception. They just refuse to adapt to the league they're in.
To be fair they literally have nothing to work with.
Had Bob and son not got rid of Pozuelo, imagine what we would look like? And we still unexplicably have no striker.
Ososo is on huge money and an absolute disaster. Don't get me started on the defenders with MB absolutely should not be on the field.
We talk about the Italians who try, meanwhile MB literally refuses to go in for a header or tackle and roams around...case in point the other night winning goal....
The Italians didn't forget how to play overnight...they ned SOME players to work with.
I said before the season started, our midfield trio in MB, Oso and Kaye was the worst midfield in the league...and that was proven over and over.....
Nope, they're shit. Seen enough and players on shit teams should still manage to perform to some level if they're worth 2 shits (Kamara in DC for years as an example).
You can try to pin it on MB like usual but he was out for 4 months and Osorio out for a few and they managed nothing but failure during that time. They can beat no one in a poor defensive league like MLS, they can't work within a system that was somewhat effective when they stuck to it, and they throw fits at the players around them for poor play when they are usually the poorest performers on any given match day. Insigne has more turnovers than MB and Oso combined most of the time and I'm not defending those two, they're awful, but the Italians are far worse and far more expensive.
And yeah that midfield was no good but it's the past and been gone for a while. The common denominator of our continued and worsening failure besides Manning? Insigne & Bernardeschi.
If there was an actual striker and a midfielder to link up with, they'd look much better.
MB has no business on the field. I think you wil agree to that.
Oso has literally fallen off a cliff and he is on a big contract too.
Only way out of this mess is burn it all to the ground again but the Italians are on guaranteed money and not going anywhere. So have to build around.....
But Mannig has to go first and foremost. And it looks like he is not going anywhere, so more of the same.
You keep blaming two players that missed a lot of time like it's all them because of your agenda. Should MB & Oso be here next year? No, but neither should the Italians. It'd be worth buying one of them out and benching the other for the season because they are not worth building around.
Also Oso on $1.3M so it's not that big of a contract. Too much for someone with his recent injury history but he would probably look a lot better out there if he had more to work with than the two turnover machines on each wing. At least yesterday he was smart enough to stop passing to them.
But the Italians - dollar for dollar are the worst DPs in MLS history and that list incudes Mista, Denilson, Gerrard, & Pirlo. Utter rubbish and an embarrassment to one of the worst presidents in MLS history and one of the worst teams in MLS history.
Craig Forrest said today on Footy Prime that he's never seen a professional team give up as easily as we do, that Dunfield isn't to blame because he's put a system out there. But as soon as they go down, they crumple.
Again, yesterday Insigne had six turnovers from trying to force play, and that doesn't include a couple of bad errant passes. Bernardeschi passed at a 58% clip. Insigne had 74 touches, more than anyone on the field, and was abysmal.
It wasn't that other players weren't in the box, or supporting him. It was that once we went a goal down, after Kerr missed the sitter, he lost all confidence and started showboating.
But that never works. The only time we've played well and won in the last four months, against Philly, was when they both stuck to the gameplan.
At least last night Bernardeschi put in real effort. He still made countless bad decisions from also trying to force it, but he wasn't a complete ball hog.
But once we went down, any chance we had of equalizing was done once Insigne decided to ignore buildup, passing and support play entirely.
We know it can work. Philly is not a bad team in this league, they're one of the best. They weren't awful statistically in that game, we just beat them, man for man, on the pitch.
But that happened because all of the players stuck to the offensive set they're clearly trying to use: be more direct, work off a first key pass then try to switch the play or advance it quickly between the lines, then put balls into the box in dangerous areas.
That's what worked against Philly. But the moment one winger starts ignoring that and holding, and holding, and holding the fucking ball, because he thinks this is Italy, and we're going to suddenly shift or rotate to create an opening, we're fucked.
Neither of them can get their style of play from there out of their heads. But the chances we will EVER have the quality of team to play in a solid block, synchronized formation that tests defenses, probes them, shifts them, are basically slim to none. At least not for a few more years; the defending in MLS just isn't good enough to even BITE on half that shit. They just in a sit in a low zonal block and make shooting difficult.
It's like dink tennis. If you put a good player in with a good athlete who's never played, the good athlete will sometimes win, because he does nothing in orthodox, expected fashion, and is still a good athlete.
That's what MLS is. It's semi-pro mixed martial arts, not professional chess.
What they are doing, holding onto the ball incessantly, WILL NEVER FUCKING WORK, Hala. If they don't know it by now, they're fucking idiots, frankly. And they don't watch other teams in the league, either.
Teemu Pukki, who plays for Minnesota know, is an average premier league striker and a good Championship-level striker. So, probably a backup in Serie 'A', maybe an occasional starter.
He has four goals since coming over and his strike rate has dropped from the Championship, because he still plays like a European, expecting through balls that don't come, making runs that aren't seen. He's starting to get it; he played much more openly last night and was really dangerous, bagging a really nice poacher goal.
People who've watched him there are baffled he's struggling to adapt a little here. But it's a very different game here, with less tactical acumen, less vision. The way teams adapt to that is by using athleticism and speed to aggressively win the ball back, then get up field quickly and put the ball into danger spots. They basically play English football Circa 1978.
That is not going to change for the Italians. They have to adapt, period. This is not about anyone else really. While other players certainly are part of the problem and , in some cases, clearly not good enough to start (Rosted, Petretta, O'Neill, Mabike... basically the whole defence and our current keeper) we have enough talent up top to be in games. We've seen it... but only when we sat Fede, and only when they both played to the system.
My front office source says the current consensus is that if they continue this with Herdman and don't get on board, "they will have to find new homes." How they do that? I don't know. I'm not really in the collegial mood for quizzing them right now. Probably buyouts or mutual terminations, I imagine.
If we had an objective party up top, I’m sure we’d give them some runway to get out of here and maybe even throw some resources at a buyout to do it. And if that failed we’d tell them “don’t care what you’re paid, get in line”
But the second Manning goes to the board for more cash to cover another mistake he might as well hand in his security pass.
Last edited by ag futbol; 09-21-2023 at 04:00 PM.
I suspect the reason I’m getting this particular message is that the board is highly impressed by Herdman, and he knows if John doesn’t approve of their effort or teamwork, he can sell that to the board as them disrespecting a coach who they already know and like. Then he probably would get the okay to eat a big chunk, to move at least one of them.
Compared to what the Raptors will spend on a single player, his calculation may be that eating a year or two to help a move, if it protects Herdman building the team into a Messi-era winner, is worth doing.
Old boys network - Dunfield is his friend.
Sorry, but NONE of them on that podcast have any objectivity left - they are the Canadian version of USMNT journalism.
Its not just the Italians
Did the Italians make Mabika give up?
Did the Italians make Coello not do basic defensive midfield stuff last night on that second goal?
Did the Italians make our goalie into a rebound prone dude?
Did the Italians make MB not jump for a header?
Did the Italians make Sapong worse then he was before this season - which wasn't good to begin with?
Did the Italians give Oso the yips and have him conistantly in the wrong spot as an AM?
Did the Italians make Petretta unreliable defensively?
Did the Italians make Rosted a nervous head swiviler?
Did the Italians make Blessing give up on his man last night for their 3rd goal?
Did the Italians make subs based on fumes and wishes?
Did the Italians force all our players to lose all hope when scored against?
I get you have this idea jloome - but the problem is WAAAAY deeper then hero ball.
We are crap beyond maybe...maybe...3 players - Ibarra, Kerr, Kosi.
Our current coach is way out of his depth
This is a badly constructed team being coached by a badly constructed coaching crew with a badly constructed academy underneath it.
RH & Herdman may not blow it all up in the offseason but...they can't have any sacred cows out there anymore.
Their big benchmark here has to be the WC and general interest around the sport. There has never been so much interest around the game in this county. TFC needs to start winning in the coming years or the big chance to scoop up fans will go to waste and they’ll find other places to get their fix.
I nearly fell off my chair last night when TSN led with TFC, then more MLS, then champions league… and eventually got to the jays after 15 minutes. Now watching the production you could tell the anchors and the production crew were clueless what to focus on and how to tell a story but I digress.
You need to parse what I write a little more closely. I've said repeatedly we have one of the most unbalanced lineups in the league.
But go back and look at the stats in that Philly game. They didn't play badly; we just beat them, by playing as a team.
We have serious issues, as our defense is weak and our central midfield is slow. But we've been in games right until they score. Then we fold. We're weak but we're not repeated-four-nothing-capitulation weak.
The common denominators are bad defense AND a lack of offense. And that latter is largely down to the two ballhogs.
I also reject the blanket assertion that Forrest can just be dismissed as biased. That's silly. Make an argument about what he actually said, which was true, not who he's friends with (and I see literally nothing to suggest he's tight with Dunfield. He was retired before Terry's hey day, and is fifteen years older. He never mentions them being friends. I think you're just making an assumption).
When your $15M striker is scoring a 6.29, the lowest on the team, and gives the ball away eight times in one game, despite having the most touches, 74, by nearly 20? Yeah, he was the biggest problem, by a fucking mile. (Although Romero's unwillingness to go up and claim a ball didn't help.)
Last edited by jloome; 09-21-2023 at 07:26 PM.
TSN must have done some research or been fed a policy indicating Messi is the biggest eyeball grabber in Canada that isn't involving hockey.
jloome...thanks for that. Appreciate the views.
My thing on Forrest is from listening to that podcast before - I'll try to refrain from my natural twitch when I hear the names involved.I stand by my assertion they support those they consider part of the CMNT experience and that in this regard, they are as naturally inclined to superiority based on being Canadian as most of US soccer journalism is of Americans.
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