TFC 2023 player in-season roster discussion

[leedsandTFC]

Assuming the Italians stay....

Still need a DP striker and an attacking CM (pozuelo type)...and a CM (Caseimiro type holding midfielder). At a minimum.


As I said before, even if "fit", the Kaye/Oso/Bradley trio in the midfield is the worst trio in all of MLS. Horrible defensively, weak, can't win challenges, lose their man, and perpahs Oso has a bit of skill going forward but he's done..non stop injuries....we need to blow this midfield up and get quality there to have any chance to work with the Italians....or whomever comes in for them or striker.

The fact that we signed Kaye for what we did is shocking...that one was ALL on bb....a complete clueless evaluator of talent and now we are really stuck. No one would take Kaye off our hands. Oso, as Manning calls him a "DP" is laughable, no offense to him..is simply not good enough and the "rumours" he was going to Europe were well played by his entourage to sucker manning/bradley to renew at what they did...but he's not good enough for what we pay him and he is hurt more often than available. And don't get me started on MB...simply this better be it for him and he is done this year and away from the club in ALL capacities.

I really don't know where/how we rebuild...there will no quick fixes..and I don't know who we can get in here to manage unless we back up the Brinks truck and allow them to rebuild and tear everythign apart (again) with a massive long terms gauranteed contract....otherwise, who would come here, its a disaster now.

do you not see that bernardeschi is fucking terrible and a dressing room cancer?

he was vaping in the dressing room and spent offseason throwing hissy fits that insigne makes more money than him. he's as big an issue at the club right now as anyone.

even taking away the terrible attitude, he's been completely figured out by mls defenders. he hasn't beat a fullback, scored or assisted in months.

going off on the midfield three that have played a grand total of 30 mins together this season as the root of our problems is hilarious though lmao.


my main hope is that hernandez actually follows through on the promise to look into what the best teams in MLS are doing...and seeing that all of them are built incredibly sturdily in the center.

we need a DP striker and a DP CM, both in their primes.

[Ultra & Proud]

do you not see that bernardeschi is fucking terrible and a dressing room cancer?

The guy is trash. The two Italians are getting tossed on our list of worst DPs ever. Some people defend them based on the squad around them but who can say another renowned bust in Soteldo had a better squad around him? There was no striker then either.

At this point Soteldo > Berna & Insigne and that's saying something.

[leedsandTFC]

The guy is trash. The two Italians are getting tossed on our list of worst DPs ever. Some people defend them based on the squad around them but who can say another renowned bust in Soteldo had a better squad around him? There was no striker then either.

At this point Soteldo > Berna & Insigne and that's saying something.

Line up giovinco and Altidore in this squad instead of them this season and we're comfortably a playoff team btw (in their primes).

DPs in this league are meant to elevate others and make stuff happen..

[ag futbol]

The guy is trash. The two Italians are getting tossed on our list of worst DPs ever. Some people defend them based on the squad around them but who can say another renowned bust in Soteldo had a better squad around him? There was no striker then either.

At this point Soteldo > Berna & Insigne and that's saying something.

I’ll say it before and I’ll say it again, the South American style (not necessarily from the region) / trequartista / individualistic style of play is the best fit as a creative DP in this league. And that player needs to be paired with a goal scorer DP.

Insigne, Defoe, even Fede are players that are meant for a different style of football with more balanced teams behind them.

[Ultra & Proud]

Line up giovinco and Altidore in this squad instead of them this season and we're comfortably a playoff team btw (in their primes).

DPs in this league are meant to elevate others and make stuff happen..

We could have went after a guy like Lucho Acosta when DC dumped him, kept Shaff, and drafted a CF like Orlando did and we would be in the playoff picture. All at the cost of about 2 months of Berna & Insigne.

[leedsandTFC]

We could have went after a guy like Lucho Acosta when DC dumped him, kept Shaff, and drafted a CF like Orlando did and we would be in the playoff picture. All at the cost of about 2 months of Berna & Insigne.

Yep.

And insigne could be great in MLS, but very likely not at his current contract which hinders the team badly in terms of funds available.

[jloome]

The guy is trash. The two Italians are getting tossed on our list of worst DPs ever. Some people defend them based on the squad around them but who can say another renowned bust in Soteldo had a better squad around him? There was no striker then either.

At this point Soteldo > Berna & Insigne and that's saying something.

I suspect we are stuck with him. In their latest, my office source made a point of upping Bernadechis potential if they can change his attitude. I suspect that's to soften the blow as there is no interest from anyone in picking up his deal.

[Hala Hrvatska]

going off on the midfield three that have played a grand total of 30 mins together this season as the root of our problems is hilarious though lmao.

My point about them was if "fit"...the plan going into the season was them as our starting trio. Anyone could tell that they are not good enough. Let alone then having to go to reserves. Oso has been injured a lot..what made you? or anyone think this year wold be different? Kaye is just crap...and has played a tonne this year...he is horrible, surely you will agree especially for what it turns out we gave up for him....and MB, apart from some here like yours truly, could tell he wasn't good enough to start anymore..until the tsn piece on him showing all the mistakes (which they probably were inspired by reading my takes and pointing them all out), most still believed he is some excellent player.....now apparently, even they know he has to be gone.

Put it this way, next year starting day, do you think if kaye/oso/bradley are still here and our starters, do you not think that is a MAJOR issue? Fit they are the worst midfield in the MLS, easily. Even servania was hyped...he's crap too if we are being honest without ourselves. I know he started last night...but did he touch the ball even was anonymous.

What I'd give to have Pozuelo back working his magic in the midfield.

Fede was our best player last year when he came. This year frustration is sinking in but he keeps showing up and getting triple teamed. Lets maybe point the finger how many games iNsigne has missed...but also, they literally have no one to work with. They are used to players that can play...not this.

[ag futbol]

My point about them was if "fit"...the plan going into the season was them as our starting trio. Anyone could tell that they are not good enough. Let alone then having to go to reserves. Oso has been injured a lot..what made you? or anyone think this year wold be different? Kaye is just crap...and has played a tonne this year...he is horrible, surely you will agree especially for what it turns out we gave up for him....and MB, apart from some here like yours truly, could tell he wasn't good enough to start anymore..until the tsn piece on him showing all the mistakes (which they probably were inspired by reading my takes and pointing them all out), most still believed he is some excellent player.....now apparently, even they know he has to be gone.

Put it this way, next year starting day, do you think if kaye/oso/bradley are still here and our starters, do you not think that is a MAJOR issue? Fit they are the worst midfield in the MLS, easily. Even servania was hyped...he's crap too if we are being honest without ourselves. I know he started last night...but did he touch the ball even was anonymous.

What I'd give to have Pozuelo back working his magic in the midfield.

Fede was our best player last year when he came. This year frustration is sinking in but he keeps showing up and getting triple teamed. Lets maybe point the finger how many games iNsigne has missed...but also, they literally have no one to work with. They are used to players that can play...not this.

I appreciate the team around the DP’s is poor. But… if you come any MLS team, good or bad, you have to embrace the mentality that you are the high paid star and you’re going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting in the face of less capable counterparts.

I don’t think either of these guys really have that in them. They both play too far away from goal and have less individualism in their game than other top DP’s in this league.

So in summary. TFC roster very bad but DP’s also not right fit. Both can be true.

[Ultra & Proud]

Fede was our best player last year when he came. This year frustration is sinking in but he keeps showing up and getting triple teamed. Lets maybe point the finger how many games iNsigne has missed...but also, they literally have no one to work with. They are used to players that can play...not this.

He was good until the rest of the league figured out he was a slow, selfish, one trick pony. Now he is just as shit as all the members of our midfield you hate. He is no better in any way than any of MAK, Oso, or MB. He isn't even as good as Kerr.

Thing is that this is MLS. You're not going to have a team of players out there to carry the luxury DP. The DPs job is to carry the rest of the regular MLSers and Berna & Insigne aren't good enough or the right type of players to do that job in MLS.

His frustration should be directed in the mirror. He fancied himself a cool, star type guy and once he was figured out, he was exposed as shit. That's how it works for lots of DPs here.

[leedsandTFC]

My point about them was if "fit"...the plan going into the season was them as our starting trio. Anyone could tell that they are not good enough. Let alone then having to go to reserves. Oso has been injured a lot..what made you? or anyone think this year wold be different? Kaye is just crap...and has played a tonne this year...he is horrible, surely you will agree especially for what it turns out we gave up for him....and MB, apart from some here like yours truly, could tell he wasn't good enough to start anymore..until the tsn piece on him showing all the mistakes (which they probably were inspired by reading my takes and pointing them all out), most still believed he is some excellent player.....now apparently, even they know he has to be gone.

Put it this way, next year starting day, do you think if kaye/oso/bradley are still here and our starters, do you not think that is a MAJOR issue? Fit they are the worst midfield in the MLS, easily. Even servania was hyped...he's crap too if we are being honest without ourselves. I know he started last night...but did he touch the ball even was anonymous.

What I'd give to have Pozuelo back working his magic in the midfield.

Fede was our best player last year when he came. This year frustration is sinking in but he keeps showing up and getting triple teamed. Lets maybe point the finger how many games iNsigne has missed...but also, they literally have no one to work with. They are used to players that can play...not this.

The dps are the biggest issue with the team, by a mile (second is the inability to keep players fit).

This project was going to sink or swim based on how well or badly they performed, and we're second last in the league.

Fede was good for a few games after he arrived. Then he got figured out as he's completely one dimensional. He hasn't scored or assisted in over 3 months and based on that Athletic article is a dressing room cancer.

Our best performance and only win in the last 6 weeks was the game he didn't play in.

We'd genuinely be better off starting kerr there.

Kaye has been bad, Bradley hasn't been fit (although the team was way way better before he got injured), and the oso contract is a bad one (unless it's heavily front loaded, a possibility).

Those 3 together are making around 14% of whst insigne and Bernardeschi are making.

Bill Manning is the biggest issue for giving out these contracts, actually.

[Derko]

It baffles me when I see other teams and the players they have, how balanced and competitive they are, and it is just a shame that TFC have disposed of players whom seem to be thriving at other teams under different coaches and managers. I said it in the Orlando thread, they have a great rookie whom has scored 7 goals, why don't we have that? There is no cohesion or drive, I agree with what Julian DeGuzman said during the half time break, these players have nothing to play for, management has bled then dry with it's bumbling for the past few years.

[leedsandTFC]

He was good until the rest of the league figured out he was a slow, selfish, one trick pony. Now he is just as shit as all the members of our midfield you hate. He is no better in any way than any of MAK, Oso, or MB. He isn't even as good as Kerr.

Thing is that this is MLS. You're not going to have a team of players out there to carry the luxury DP. The DPs job is to carry the rest of the regular MLSers and Berna & Insigne aren't good enough or the right type of players to do that job in MLS.

His frustration should be directed in the mirror. He fancied himself a cool, star type guy and once he was figured out, he was exposed as shit. That's how it works for lots of DPs here.

100%

[Ultra & Proud]

Fede was good for a few games after he arrived. Then he got figured out as he's completely one dimensional. He hasn't scored or assisted in over 3 months a
Our best performance and only win in the last 6 weeks was the game he didn't play in.

We'd genuinely be better off starting kerr there.

And this is what bothered me with Bob and now Dunfield. Everyone can see Berna has no pace and no ideas and he is where all possession on his wing goes to die yet they keep using him there. Since he is mostly usless in an actual moving football sense, the best thing to do is just drop him at CF where maybe he could score or at least not cough the ball up in bad areas that can lead to counters. He has good feet and he is more likely to score than Sappong or Akinola and at worst he is an expensive pointless foward walking around doing nothing.

[Hala Hrvatska]

The dps are the biggest issue with the team, by a mile (second is the inability to keep players fit).

This project was going to sink or swim based on how well or badly they performed, and we're second last in the league.

Fede was good for a few games after he arrived. Then he got figured out as he's completely one dimensional. He hasn't scored or assisted in over 3 months and based on that Athletic article is a dressing room cancer.

Our best performance and only win in the last 6 weeks was the game he didn't play in.

We'd genuinely be better off starting kerr there.

Kaye has been bad, Bradley hasn't been fit (although the team was way way better before he got injured), and the oso contract is a bad one (unless it's heavily front loaded, a possibility).

Those 3 together are making around 14% of whst insigne and Bernardeschi are making.

Bill Manning is the biggest issue for giving out these contracts, actually.

The Athletic piece was about BB and son's toxic impact..around father/son, captaincy...the "other son" kaye.....

I'd have never went for Insigne and Fede based on alone...if you go DP it better be a striker or attacking midfielder who pulls the strings...these guys are not that type of player. Clueless manning thought he'd get lightning in a bottle again and get another Seba but he played all over, and was not isolated to the wing where could get triple teamed and have no one to work with. There literally is no striker on this team and no pulling the strings midfielder (ala Poz). Its never going to work no matter who we get in. What BB was thinking in assembling this team is beyond me...and same for MB who no doubt had input behind the scenes advising dear old dad.....

I can get you 5 guys from dinamo zagreb on way way way less than what even Oso, Bradley and Kaye make and we'd be way better immediately. Instead, we allow Manning to make his moves and its a disaster.

The team was crap with Bradley...come on. He started every game last year and look where it got us...the DC game we got overun with him and Oso and Kaye opening day and lost. Had Bradly not got hurt, we'd still be in this mess...he offers ZERO going forward, and defensively is a sieve (as the TSN piece pointed out).

Yeah, the italians are way overpaid...and it was a dumb move bringing them here at that price with no supporting case to work with....our only hope now is MAnning is fired and the Saudis come in and take Insigne and Fede off our hands.

A complete tear it up is needed. I don't even know which quality players would want to come here at this point...am sure everyone in the MLS thinks Manning is useless and our club is a joke now. We will have to vastly overpay to get a qaulity manager and players to come here.

The youth set up also needs to be completely revamped and scouting...we have great talent in the Toronto area...that plays elsewhere. We can't even scout our own backyard.

Oh well, rant over. Am so pissed. Like I said last night durinig the in game thread..I don't know whether to laugh or cry at what I was watching. Absolute disaster. Men vs boys.

[leedsandTFC]

Imagine looking at this season and pointing your blame at Michael Bradley.

Can only feel bad for someone with so much hate in their heart.

[Hala Hrvatska]

Imagine looking at this season and pointing your blame at Michael Bradley.

Can only feel bad for someone with so much hate in their heart.

Dude give it a rest. I don't point the blame at only him. Manning and Bradley sr created this mess. One down, the other has to go as well. And then we try and fix the damage they have done.

NO one "hates" Bradley. Am sure he is a good guy in "real life". Just he is done here. Father time catches up with all of us.


You on the other hand have some real anoymosioty towards Fede....our one and only legit threat most games. I for one and thankful he spoke up. Imagine he didn't? BB would still be here I bet....

[leedsandTFC]

Dude give it a rest. I don't point the blame at only him. Manning and Bradley sr created this mess. One down, the other has to go as well. And then we try and fix the damage they have done.

NO one "hates" Bradley. Am sure he is a good guy in "real life". Just he is done here. Father time catches up with all of us.


You on the other hand have some real anoymosioty towards Fede....our one and only legit threat most games. I for one and thankful he spoke up. Imagine he didn't? BB would still be here I bet....

He was the captain last night in a very young team and intentionally got sent off. So yeah I do feel ANIMOSITY towards him, you should too.

And he's not been a threat since March.

I blame this all on bill manning though. He's set everyone up to fail: Bob, the Italiana, everyone.

[Ultra & Proud]

You on the other hand have some real anoymosioty towards Fede....our one and only legit threat most games.

Guy hasn't scored or assisted in 3 months and he is our threat. He is our joke at best. An expensive, useless, jackass joke and the worst thing is the laughs are at us because we're the ones coughing up money to watch him cough up the ball, pass like an amateur, and walk around like a whiny kid.

Sooner he is gone and forgotten the better. Soteldo Pt II - The Jackassening

[Hala Hrvatska]

Guy hasn't scored or assisted in 3 months and he is our threat. He is our joke at best. An expensive, useless, jackass joke and the worst thing is the laughs are at us because we're the ones coughing up money to watch him cough up the ball, pass like an amateur, and walk around like a whiny kid.

Sooner he is gone and forgotten the better. Soteldo Pt II - The Jackassening

Him and Insigne are in monster long term contracts. That's the only reason they even came here in the first place. They aren't going anywhere unless the Saudis step in...and/or some other club takes them on here and we eat their salary.

[leedsandTFC]

Him and Insigne are in monster long term contracts. That's the only reason they even came here in the first place. They aren't going anywhere unless the Saudis step in...and/or some other club takes them on here and we eat their salary.

Bernardeschi could go back to serie a if we release him on a free transfer.

He's probably worth 8 mill euros so justifiable to a club to pay more wages if they get him free.

Insigne yeah only saudis taking that contract. But they might.

[Bushmancan]

We have no pace, anywhere and whatever pace we had we dumped.

Now that wouldn't be such a problem if we had skill and we played possession but we don't do that either. Bill Manning - Bob Bradley (BBM) dumped any possible unique attack lever we had.

One other thing, in 2017 we had Ricketts coming off the bench in the 80th minute just to disrupt things. I like Sapong but neither he nor Diomande nor Peruzza for that matter are going to put any fear into an MLS defence.

[ag futbol]

We have no pace, anywhere and whatever pace we had we dumped.

Now that wouldn't be such a problem if we had skill and we played possession but we don't do that either. Bill Manning - Bob Bradley (BBM) dumped any possible unique attack lever we had.

One other thing, in 2017 we had Ricketts coming off the bench in the 80th minute just to disrupt things. I like Sapong but neither he nor Diomande nor Peruzza for that matter are going to put any fear into an MLS defence.

It’s almost like we shouldn’t have traded Shaffleburg for a bag of balls…

[barticusz]

I'm completely with Ultra & Proud. I want a FULL reset. This garbage has been sitting out in the hot sun for far too long.

I went on whoscored.com to check out some player ratings as some have suggested we shouldn't have disposed of certain talent. This year, there isn't a team that's head and shoulders above anyone else, but I would suggest we would want to achieve a minimum rating of 6.65 for any starter calibur player. Ideally we would be striving for a 6.7+ rating in order to be among the teams that are performing in the top half and really capable of competing for the cup. As some comparisons to ground all this in, TFC 2017 had a 6.86 rating; that monster 2019 LAFC year they were 7.00 and Philly in 2022 were 6.89.

So how are we doing right now? 6.59 which is surprisingly not too bad. Under Armas we were our worst ever with a 6.46 rating in 2021, and a 6.56 last year.

Top Players so far this season:
LI is our best. When he's on he actually helps this team unlike Berna who can't seem to realize that he has to use his teammates.

I looked up some of the kids we recently shipped out. Priso 6.14 (!!!); Shaffy (6.60 - ok but honestly he's 14th best on Nashville); Petrasso (6.18!!). Shaffy is definitely serviceable but based on the performances of the other two, I can't see them sticking in MLS much longer.

As for Toronto's youth, Kobi Franklin is our best performer so far this season at 6.66. Other than Kerr at 6.52, all of our youth are under 6.5 rating. Our most highly prophesized youth, JMR (6.36) and Akinola (6.04!!!) have been woeful. Maybe I'm being overly harsh but I'll bash the Academy system yet again. Of all the people I mentioned Franklin is the only one where I see a real desire and work ethic. Everyone else has moments but are so incredibly inconsistent.

The point of all this is to show how we CANNOT rely on our Academy as it has not delivered even serviceable MLSer's. There must be something in the mindset of the Academy or the youth coming through where they think they've made it if they're playing on TFC and they lack the desire and work ethic to actually become pro's.

[Ultra & Proud]

The point of all this is to show how we CANNOT rely on our Academy as it has not delivered even serviceable MLSer's. There must be something in the mindset of the Academy or the youth coming through where they think they've made it if they're playing on TFC and they lack the desire and work ethic to actually become pro's.

I think we also need to either get an all encompassing, very expensive manager/sporting director to oversee the whole thing right down to the academy and by expensive I mean overpaying a big name like we do with the players.

Or more logically, we hire an established youth academy director from somewhere else (as in Europe) and let that guy run the academy separate from the first team and let him do his thing there. Establish a pro environment with pro training staff instead of ex-players who barely have a clue.

I like the first idea but even if we hired some bigger name manager like Conte or say Potter, he would be fired or quit in a few years anyways and it would back to ground zero.

[jloome]

He was the captain last night in a very young team and intentionally got sent off. So yeah I do feel ANIMOSITY towards him, you should too.


I blame this all on bill manning though. He's set everyone up to fail: Bob, the Italiana, everyone.

I just posted at length on this in the Manning Deathwatch thread.

I'm not sure people get how hands off he's been since 2018. The problem with Manning isn't that he's set anything up, it's that he's been completely absentee since signing Pozuelo.

He's worried about making them money, not football. That's the real problem.

He thought he could get away with/would benefit from letting Ali and Jack Dodd run football operations, and when that crapped out, turned to the league's favorite "legend."

I don't think he's had a role in any signings in years until Insigne. Bernardeschi was in concert with Bob, who clearly liked the idea of fixing another "enfant terrible", as he did with MAK coming from USL with the same rep (or thinks he did). He's the player whisperer, in his world view.

He deferred to people he respected and it cost him. That's not to say his own decisions would've been any better. I think it was probably just easier for him to let guys he knew and liked run their own show.

Having done this myself in management I have sympathy... within reason. I was a pretty shit manager.

[jloome]

I think we also need to either get an all encompassing, very expensive manager/sporting director to oversee the whole thing right down to the academy and by expensive I mean overpaying a big name like we do with the players.

Or more logically, we hire an established youth academy director from somewhere else (as in Europe) and let that guy run the academy separate from the first team and let him do his thing there. Establish a pro environment with pro training staff instead of ex-players who barely have a clue.

I like the first idea but even if we hired some bigger name manager like Conte or say Potter, he would be fired or quit in a few years anyways and it would back to ground zero.

Ideally, we get a sporting director first and foremost who is good at cutting deals and coming away with more than at the start. If we could get Ernst Tanner I'd say he's the guy. I'd say Lutz Pfannenstiel has proven the same eye for value and need at St. Louis, and if the deal were big enough has shown a long desire to move to new projects (he was the most travelled professional goalie in history, I suspect.)

I'd try and hire Pfannensteil away. St. Louis is so early and his upside potentially his much higher if they start out a winner, so perhaps that isn't possible. But he knew what he wanted when he hired Bradley Carnell, he knew which journeymen were actual fighters, he knew the level of DP they would need to be effective rather than flashy.

I think the reason they're going after young up-and-comers first is that they know with the Italian deals hampering finances, they're going to need someone who can produce without the goods.

I think there has been heat from above over the value of the Italians, and he has been instructed to start watching dollars, regardless of the need to rebuild.

They've been told to watch dollars, produce supporting metrics for both performance and value. This isn't being done in isolation with Manning and Hernandez accountable to no one, they've got a metaphorical ankle bracelet on them in the form of having to justify the bottom line now, which hasn't been the case in years.

[Gringo Starr]

He hired new agents so he wants out so I would do it and I would move Berna too.

And Diomande. And Akinola. And MAK. And Osorio. And Petretta. And Ranjitsingh. And Dunfield. And Manning. And the training staff. And the assistants. And the physios. And Conway.........and........

In a rebuild who do we keep Coehlo, Kobe, Kosi, Mabika, Kerr?

[Hala Hrvatska]

I appreciate the team around the DP’s is poor. But… if you come any MLS team, good or bad, you have to embrace the mentality that you are the high paid star and you’re going to have to do a lot of heavy lifting in the face of less capable counterparts.

I don’t think either of these guys really have that in them. They both play too far away from goal and have less individualism in their game than other top DP’s in this league.

So in summary. TFC roster very bad but DP’s also not right fit. Both can be true.

Agreed. But also the roster construction is horrible. If these two guys weren't on opposite wings they could work one/twos and look for each other...but the are spread out away from each other so can't help.

I think Fede came here with great intentions and worked his tail off last year. Insigne constantly hurt and out and seemingly every slight knock means he is out is/was a bad sign...he came for the massive money but deep down doesn't want to be here. I think they both think the team, Manning, Bradley, mls in general are a joke and beneath them. They aren't young and hungry trying to parlay a move to Europe (like Atlanta's Almiron years back as an example).

Its a mess top to bottom and the culture now is toxic in the club. The Athletic piece was the tip of the iceberg no doubt "off the record"...imagine what its like if guys could speak freely or will once they are gone?

Chris Mavinga's tweets show alot of what he thinks/thought of BB for example....

I don't know where we go from here if Manning is not fired.

I certainlyh do not want any American retreads ever again. Enough is enough. If there is not some capable Canadian, then Euro or South American and we build again.

[Ultra & Proud]

In a rebuild who do we keep Coehlo, Kobe, Kosi, Mabika, Kerr?

Romero maybe? Obviously all these TFC 2 loaned up guys. Unfortunately all the albatross contracts too like Petretta & MAK. Be better to ditch them but there's no way except a buyout.