Based on his past performances, his age (26) and the fact that he's had a cup of tea in the French third division without sticking, I have to think this one is agent hype bullshit.Originally Posted by Valdal
A guy who produces nothing in the Tanzanian league (one goal in 26 games) is not coming to MLS.
Influx of agent driven African players to TFC rumors starting now...
He has significantly matured since his early red card days at Rangers. I am pretty he has only one or two in the last three years. I am a huge Rangers fan and watch most of their games.
I admit I am highly suspicious of him being labelled trouble and a party boy when all of that seems to coincide with him asking for moves to clubs that wanted to pay less than Rangers valued him at.
It smacked of “if he doesn’t want to play or us, he only gets to leave when we get paid.”
I am told the $1.6M being quoted regarding Mailula is not correct. It’s well under that because that would, with salary, push him into DP realm.
What my source thinks they could be referring to is his combined salary and transfer fee over the contract term.
That makes me suspect it’s a typical two years plus options young DP deal.
Also this is apparently not our first inquiry about him, and he was initially advised to hold out for a bigger deal in Europe, as multiple teams were interested. But MLS is now seen as a European pipeline that can afford the player more game time.
Last edited by jloome; 07-19-2023 at 01:29 PM.
I'm not going to get worked up about the possible interest in the player from Rangers. Too many unknowns there.
However, the whole injury debacle REALLY gets to me. I'm confused about the years, and I don't feel like putting any effort into googling right now. But I believe when we started having injury problems after winning MLS Cup, and you heard some complaints even from DPs, TFC had a press announcement how they had made a deal with a sports science company. How everything would be monitored carefully to improve performance and avoid injury from then on. Then they NEVER reported about that again.
In the past, TFC loved to do deep-dives about various technical improvements, like the initial grass install; all the underground stuff to get a better natural grass surface; the hybrid turf upgrade with the expensive stitching machine; the grow lights; and much more. But not a peep about how the sports science company was working with training staff to improve things. Frankly injuries were already bad under Vanney, probably got worse under Armas, and cratered with BB. I can remember so many times (even in Vanney times) when players were obviously being overplayed, we would comment how there was a risk related to age, travel and all the other stuff, and of course the next injury came and they were out for a while.
I've asked about that mysterious sports science company many times on this forum.
I'm not even sure how much of that is only under Manning, although for sure he hasn't helped. I feel like it might even be a general MLSE/TFC thing. Like:
- Don't plan or research well.
- Spend a ton of money on some players that may not fit well and/or are an injury risk in this league of travel, weather & altitude extremes, crappy surfaces, and thin squads.
- Continue spending a ton of money on players that don't "fit" from last year that you had to buy out, loan, transfer or whatever but where you had to throw money on the pile so anyone would take them.
- Leave obvious gaps in your team, and no plans for rotating players in a reasonable formation to keep everyone fit.
- Charge very high prices for tickets and concessions.
- Always want to "win now" i.e. at least make the playoffs or sell some season tickets, regardless of whether the current team actually has hope of durable success.
Maybe somebody has more insights. I feel like all this could lead to any kind sports science or load management to get pushed to the side. Plus probably oversize egos and old thinking from guys like Bradley.
With our injuries, as long as he has 2 feet and a heart beat and can stay that way his minutes will not be an issue regardless of who signed him.
Random thoughts on this
I remember when we got Tom Williams, head of strength & conditioning at Leicester - he came over here talking about how stationery bikes were being used just prior to people going on the pitch to ramp up readiness and he'd like to see that occur here.
Vanney never implemented that thinking but the guy left for LAG with Vanney.
My understanding is injuries at LAG have been not good under Vanney their too.
I get the feeling load management was not something any manager with us has appreciated until possibly JH told Dunfield he has to.
Doesn’t surprise me to hear that. I generally like Vanney but when it came to load management he did not give a single crap. He played his best players as often as he could until they broke (see regular season 2020). Basically ignored any youth prospects too (as much as we know the problems there).
Somebody posted a very detailed analysis a while back, which showed that TFC's injury rate (measured as games lost) over the last 5 years was a bit over the league average, but not that dramatic.
There is a reason big teams in Europe have 25 name guys. Soccer players get hurt, a lot. We over invest dollars in veterans, players from “name” leagues, have done so forever. Our depth is never MLS ready.
The issue is roster construction.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Does this mean Cassius Mailula can't be added? Or are there exceptions?
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/mlsnetwork/status/1681836668708421633?s=20
Sheehan Bradley …learn something every day, haha
Also, or perhaps related to this WTR article by Corey Brady?
https://wakingthered.com/2023/05/13/...many-injuries/
IIUC, Alfredo Morelos has stated he prefers to play/stay in Europe. Let him and the cloud that surrounds him. Given TFC's recent past and ongoing circumstances... a hard no to 'El Buffet' or 'El Cabeza Caliente' for me.
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 07-20-2023 at 05:06 AM.
So my little bird tells me their intention for the South African kid is he will play wide right or left, and will play as the second striker when we have two up front or a hole player.
doesnt someone have to leave before he comes in?
and he is not on the leagues cup roster can they add him?
Jloome is our Lord Varys with his birds. 🤣
Is there an implied departure assumption in the plan to primarily have him play on the left or the right?
I did mention both those spots technically currently being filled but there was no bite on that, just what they plan to do with him.
Let’s face it though, even if they both stayed — which seems increasingly unlikely from general tone — one or the other is invariably out injured or suspended.
Maliula is apparently adept at both wings. By my count however 90% of his goals are coming in from the right.
I still don’t believe the Bologna story, not unless we’re somehow eating that lost salary. Fede isn’t going to give up millions at his earning peak.
it probably wouldn't be millions, especially given he can probably make more in endorsements and marketing in italy than here.
also remember the difference in net vs gross income, at the current discussed salaries, he'd be losing a little over a million euros a year (which could be made up in bonuses and marketing contracts).
insigne is totally different, he either needs to take 50%+ pay cut or saudi, or stay.
regardless, i think one of the main reasons insigne/ berna didnt work out is lack of pace out wide. basically a necessity in MLS, neither of them is particularly quick in terms of making runs in behind. new kid should at least give us that.
Last edited by leedsandTFC; 07-20-2023 at 03:35 PM.
Completely agree. Our front 6 was glacial in pace and that just killed us. We needed more pace in one of those spots.
I'm surprised, but according to Capology, which allegedly gets its numbers from the players union, he's only on $3.125M per year, well behind what was publicly stated. He was earning way more at Juve, more than $8M per season with all bonuses.
So yeah, we probably could eat part of his deal, and he might take less. I'm wrong on this one, it seems.
Quite surprising. Not the wrong part, the money.
The figures bandied publicly when they were both signed appear to be way off what their actual deals were.
In fact, it almost looks as if whoever reported those initially just took what he made the last time he signed an extension at Juve. But he had built-in salary increase guarantees there, so he actually made more than $8m, essentially as a backup.
They must have been weeping tears of joy when TFC showed up to buy him.
I'm cautiously optimistic about the new kid. Much tougher, deeper defending in this league, though, so... still basically a bit of a crap shoot.
EDIT: Also, the $5M the Italian press claimed Insigne was on when we signed him was also low, he was on $9.4M. The $5M was post taxes. They don't actually pay the tax for them, as has been claimed, it's built into their contract. They just DISCUSS the value of the deal in net, whereas we do it in gross.
His deal appears to be six years, not four, with payments of $14M the first year (last season) and $7.5M each year thereafter. The total value is $44M, not the $62M announced previously, and two years longer.
However, they list 2023 twice, so it's either five years with two payments this year (don't think that would work under league cap rules) or six years.
https://www.capology.com/player/lorenzo-insigne-33393/
Last edited by jloome; 07-20-2023 at 04:11 PM.
ideally more pace and quality up front (aka someone who can score), and pace on at least one of the wings.
Can't have sat well with Bernardeschi to come here on half the money he was on at Juve, only to discover Insigne getting a raise (at least in year one. As far as I can tell, he technically makes less here now than he did at Napoli, unless OUR figures are post-tax, which they never are.)
i think they sometimes fudge the numbers for the very highest earners in MLS (in the MLSPA numbers at least).
Yeah, hard not to suspect that. When was the last time the league allowed a team a six-year, front-end loaded deal?
I don't think that's the fudged number, though. The MLSPA ones are those that we can probably trust, because the league would literally face anti-trust suits if it reported the wrong ones to its contracted player association. The fudged number was the one reported publicly when he was bought.
If they are thinking of him as a second striker, does that mean we're playing 4-4-2?
I guess it's possible.
Nah he's on way more money than was reported, to the point where his camp was angry it was reported as so little in the MLSPA numbers.
I'm guessing a lot of the money is in various marketing and commercial deals so doesn't appear on the MLSPA numbers.
"Insigne’s reps, meanwhile, were upset that the 2023 MLSPA salary release did not include the star’s marketing deal that adds a significant chunk to his earnings"
Also means he's way harder to shift as has more ties to the city.
Feel like it's saudi or nothing fir him
I don't believe that off the face of it, though.
The league doesn't allow off-contract marketing deals with a player's club, only through them or third parties. Any compensation that is with TFC has to be reported as part of his overall package.
They might have arranged other contractual ties in Toronto, but they won't be through or with TFC, it just doesn't work that way. For example, Beckham's "shirt" deal was with MLS directly, not part of his Galaxy contract. THey had to cut multiple off contract deals with him, but they were all agreements in writing with the league, separately.
I just don't assume that's true, that's he's on more. They have "verified" and "unverified" status for contract listings, and the verified ones have been affirmed by their player association.
He's on $144,000 a week from TFC. If he's getting more than that, it's not a deal with the team.
He was on much more his first year, because they front-loaded the deal. So last year, he made nearly $300K per week. This year, he's on $144K per week, and is for the next four years. His last three years at Napoli, he was on $184K.
$44M on overall value is still a huge contract, it's just not what was reported. Given the apparent extra year, he may have a clause where he can opt out of his final year but the figure is guaranteed, so we still have to eat it in five years time. Still is well short of what was announced by the Italian press.
I'll be as conspiracy theory as anyone if the facts are there, but this stuff is all released publicly as part of the players' association protecting its members. If they attempted to hide $7M a year off books, we'd be seeing lawsuits out the yin yang.
Last edited by jloome; 07-20-2023 at 04:31 PM.
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