TFC 2023 player in-season roster discussion

[FiveThreeTwo]

Always felt Manning trying everything to get back Richie with the cost it would take to get him when the whole team is fucked would have been like a buddy identifying they need a $20,000 kabota lawn tractor when their house has black mold everywhere, needs a new roof job, there’s structural problems with the foundation lol, and theres soil problems with too much sand in the mix so the grass burns anyways.

Happy we didn’t go down this route. Happy for Richie if the purchase option occurs. I think that’s over pay in that role unless we’re about to get a 4th DP or some restriction loosening… since Vancouver are usually frugal as hell

[leedsandTFC]

Always felt Manning trying everything to get back Richie with the cost it would take to get him when the whole team is fucked would have been like a buddy identifying they need a $20,000 kabota lawn tractor when their house has black mold everywhere, needs a new roof job, there’s structural problems with the foundation lol, and theres soil problems with too much sand in the mix so the grass burns anyways.

Happy we didn’t go down this route. Happy for Richie if the purchase option occurs. I think that’s over pay in that role unless we’re about to get a 4th DP or some restriction loosening… since Vancouver are usually frugal as hell

laryea as a DP is perfect for the cheap owners.

a DP signing that will make fans happy, and won't break the bank.

no team with laryea as a DP is ever gonna seriously be a threat to win MLS cup, sure, but they weren't going to do that anyways.

[FiveThreeTwo]

Getting into the hard, harsh business of mistakes is kind of important right now. I sent my team contact a suggestion today that if we're cleaning house, they need to start looking at their existing staff, particularly scouting, and what they've actually produced. They've all been there a minimum of three years, are all -- to my eyes -- pretty underqualified for their roles. Given how little they've contributed, that's probably not surprising.

But I suspect general hiring policies have revolved around getting people who seemed easy to work with and likeable, rather than people who are aggressively goal-oriented and self-directed to improve.

Seeing this systems and quality of coaching discussion makes me wonder what exactly went wrong with Winter and Deklerk. Werent they probably some of the most technical hands on coaches we’ve
Had, who had experience laying down training/tactical systems/progression systems?

Or was it more they were ahead of their time and MLS and clubs structure weren’t ready for that yet (desire to take control of the entire process). Never understood why it never worked out or why we sucked so bad. Guessed too much focus on learning how to defend instead of trying to score and we didn’t win enough for fans and the bosses

[Phil744]

https://twitter.com/ManuelVeth/statu...c9uJAJNaA&s=19

Sources🚨! #VWFC    are in talks to sign #CanMNT star Sam Adekugbe from Süper Lig side Hatayspor.

Not a done deal yet but negotiations are advanced. Adekugbe would join fellow Canadian star Laryea in Vancouver. Would be a big deal if it goes through.



We should of got him instead of the highest paid LB in the league.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This sucks. We get to watch players we want go elsewhere for better money. This team is so broken. Move the big money players already and we can look to filling holes.

[ensco]

Surprised that the weight of public opinion is something like 8-0 so far, that letting Laryea go to Vancouver, is a good move for TFC.

I am not in sync. I think he is in his prime and will be for 3-4 more years, he is the best fullback in MLS, and I would have made Richie a DP and kept him.

EDIT: seeing Adekugbe go there as well is not making this better.

[leedsandTFC]

Surprised that the weight of public opinion is something like 8-0 so far, that letting Laryea go to Vancouver, is a good move for TFC.

I am not in sync. I think he is in his prime and will be for 3-4 more years, he is the best fullback in MLS, and I would have made Richie a DP and kept him.

EDIT: seeing Adekugbe go there as well is not making this better.

he's 29 in january, that's the age players in his profile start to decline.

not to mention fullback DP in MLS is atrocious roster management. which is why i'm surprised we didn't do it.

he's been amazing this year. how many games has he won us? a player with the same ability as a striker wins you a ton of games.

[ag futbol]

Seeing this systems and quality of coaching discussion makes me wonder what exactly went wrong with Winter and Deklerk. Werent they probably some of the most technical hands on coaches we’ve
Had, who had experience laying down training/tactical systems/progression systems?

Or was it more they were ahead of their time and MLS and clubs structure weren’t ready for that yet (desire to take control of the entire process). Never understood why it never worked out or why we sucked so bad. Guessed too much focus on learning how to defend instead of trying to score and we didn’t win enough for fans and the bosses

Well actually, if memory serves, the players, including our Dutch striker, went to management and asked they be fired after our “worst team in the world” run.

Sometimes European coaching does not translate here. Whether it’s cultural, the quality of the players, or something else… early MLS wrecked a ton of decent Euro managers and sent them packing quickly.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think he is in his prime and will be for 3-4 more years, he is the best fullback in MLS

*Maybe best offensive FB in MLS. His dodgy positioning caused a lot of goals against the past few years that usually got blamed on the RCB and/or MB.

[leedsandTFC]

*Maybe best offensive FB in MLS. His dodgy positioning caused a lot of goals against the past few years that usually got blamed on the RCB and/or MB.

yep.

fullbacks, especially ones who rely on pace, start to decline before they hit 30, too. richie will be 29 when he signs the DP contract in january.

https://sqaf.club/footballer-prime-age/

[ag futbol]

he's 29 in january, that's the age players in his profile start to decline.

not to mention fullback DP in MLS is atrocious roster management. which is why i'm surprised we didn't do it.

he's been amazing this year. how many games has he won us? a player with the same ability as a striker wins you a ton of games.

Not justifying signing him as a DP (definitely a gross overpayment) but I think he still has a good career ahead of him.

If the snipet we saw from this year is any indication, he could certainly slide in as a CB in a back 3 and remain useful once pace no longer supports his wide play like it does currently.

[Ultra & Proud]

If the snipet we saw from this year is any indication, he could certainly slide in as a CB in a back 3 and remain useful once pace no longer supports his wide play like it does currently.

Most of the good things he did at CB were last ditch pace covers for others (Rosted) who lost his man.

[leedsandTFC]

Not justifying signing him as a DP (definitely a gross overpayment) but I think he still has a good career ahead of him.

If the snipet we saw from this year is any indication, he could certainly slide in as a CB in a back 3 and remain useful once pace no longer supports his wide play like it does currently.

i think he would be amazing as a max TAM player.

but DPs need to win you games. a huge part of the reason we've been so bad this year is the inability of our DPs to do that.

Laryea has been in the team and not won us games, despite playing very well.

also think it makes sense for the whitecaps. they desperately need to sell more tickets, and their owner doesn't like to spend.

laryea will be cheap for a DP and should get some more casual fans out.

[ag futbol]

*Maybe best offensive FB in MLS. His dodgy positioning caused a lot of goals against the past few years that usually got blamed on the RCB and/or MB.

I think there’s some philosophical differences in different corners of football about this. I swear every elite attacking fullback for the last decade plus (Alves, Marcelo, etc) has had this charge levelled against them.

To me, if your fullback bombs forward, it is, absolutely the DM’s job to cover. And it’s not the FB being out of position or failing to track back, rather it’s what the coach asks him to do as part of the team’s plan which means the team needs to slide over because it’s not possible for him to get there.

[ag futbol]

i think he would be amazing as a max TAM player.

but DPs need to win you games. a huge part of the reason we've been so bad this year is the inability of our DPs to do that.

Laryea has been in the team and not won us games, despite playing very well.

also think it makes sense for the whitecaps. they desperately need to sell more tickets, and their owner doesn't like to spend.

laryea will be cheap for a DP and should get some more casual fans out.

I agree. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more overpayments for Canadians leading up to WC26 from the other teams (in no way am I justifying doing such, rather teams will want players with profile on the CMNT in their squad).

[ensco]

I think there’s some philosophical differences in different corners of football about this. I swear every elite attacking fullback for the last decade plus (Alves, Marcelo, etc) has had this charge levelled against them.

To me, if your fullback bombs forward, it is, absolutely the DM’s job to cover. And it’s not the FB being out of position or failing to track back, rather it’s what the coach asks him to do as part of the team’s plan which means the team needs to slide over because it’s not possible for him to get there.

Thank you. Saved me having to write this.

[JoesphNdo]

Surprised that the weight of public opinion is something like 8-0 so far, that letting Laryea go to Vancouver, is a good move for TFC.

I am not in sync. I think he is in his prime and will be for 3-4 more years, he is the best fullback in MLS, and I would have made Richie a DP and kept him.

EDIT: seeing Adekugbe go there as well is not making this better.

The way I'd frame it is, remove all emotion

Pretend instead of being a Canadian TFC player he's an American who played for Minnesota or something. Same player, same ability, same impact. Tried to goto Forest, flamed out, came back, and showed he was a very good MLS full back

Do you want him as a DP? Is he really one of the players you spend a DP slot on to rebuild a team with absolutely gaping holes in its spine?

I don't see it. I think Manning would be, rightly, getting all manner of abuse if he signed that player to a DP contract

EDIT - Though I do agree leveling 'positioning' as a problem to such an effective attacking fullback is something I don't agree with, and it's been levelled against some of the literal GOATs in that position. He was a very good full back, no question at all. Just we have higher needs elsewhere

[Ultra & Proud]

I think there’s some philosophical differences in different corners of football about this. I swear every elite attacking fullback for the last decade plus (Alves, Marcelo, etc) has had this charge levelled against them.

To me, if your fullback bombs forward, it is, absolutely the DM’s job to cover. And it’s not the FB being out of position or failing to track back, rather it’s what the coach asks him to do as part of the team’s plan which means the team needs to slide over because it’s not possible for him to get there.

He did it for a few different managers so who knows? I find it hard to believe these different managers would all go suicide like that with MB or Coello back there expected to shift and handle the overload.

[ensco]

You know what, call me crazy, but I like seeing our CMNT heroes play for TFC. This is disappointing.

Maybe we will sign Hoilett. We could use him.

[leedsandTFC]

I agree. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more overpayments for Canadians leading up to WC26 from the other teams (in no way am I justifying doing such, rather teams will want players with profile on the CMNT in their squad).

i wouldn't mind this if we were overpaying, say, eustaquio, larin, etc.

overpaying laryea at the age of 29 is asinine.

we've already seen what overpayment of a very good canadian MLS player (osorio) looks like.

[JoesphNdo]

i wouldn't mind this if we were overpaying, say, eustaquio, larin, etc.

overpaying laryea at the age of 29 is asinine.

we've already seen what overpayment of a very good canadian MLS player (osorio) looks like.

Going further - putting short term fan sentiment ahead of rationality is part of why our roster construction has been so poor since 2019. There's numerous examples.

I'm very, very happy to see us move away from that if that's what this is

[Ultra & Proud]

You know what, call me crazy, but I like seeing our CMNT heroes play for TFC. This is disappointing.

Maybe we will sign Hoilett. We could use him.

Pass. Enough appeasing fanbases based on nationality and no more old men. At some point we need to learn from our frequent past failures.

I like watching us win and play well so I am good with whoever they get that can help that happen regardless of nationality.

[leedsandTFC]

Pass. Enough appeasing fanbases based on nationality and no more old men. At some point we need to learn from our frequent past failures.

I like watching us win and play well so I am good with whoever they get that can help that happen regardless of nationality.

i'd rather see us win than watch laryea and oso lose, playing with a bunch of kids bc we've spent the whole budget on their contracts.

[FootBallAZ]

Always felt Manning trying everything to get back Richie with the cost it would take to get him when the whole team is fucked would have been like a buddy identifying they need a $20,000 kabota lawn tractor when their house has black mold everywhere, needs a new roof job, there’s structural problems with the foundation lol, and theres soil problems with too much sand in the mix so the grass burns anyways.

Happy we didn’t go down this route. Happy for Richie if the purchase option occurs. I think that’s over pay in that role unless we’re about to get a 4th DP or some restriction loosening… since Vancouver are usually frugal as hell

still feels like plenty of egg on the supporters face- 2 weeks of radio silent- seemed like they only had eyes for richie- SMH terrible - short sighted mis-management.

[ag futbol]

Going further - putting short term fan sentiment ahead of rationality is part of why our roster construction has been so poor since 2019. There's numerous examples.

I'm very, very happy to see us move away from that if that's what this is

Outright familiarity and laziness certainly appear to be a problem and I think Manning is more guilty of this than anyone (as much as he claims he sits in his ivory tower and doesn’t get involved)

[Ultra & Proud]

still feels like plenty of egg on the supporters face- 2 weeks of radio silent- seemed like they only had eyes for richie- SMH terrible - short sighted mis-management.

I think they have eyes for nobody. We shouldn't sign anyone in this window. Should be about dumping excess (as in pretty much everyone) trash.

Clear the deck for the new manager. Nobody should be surprised or upset that we're doing little. You should be upset that buyout is still sitting there when it could at least solve one problem.

[Ultra & Proud]

Outright familiarity and laziness certainly appear to be a problem and I think Manning is more guilty of this than anyone (as much as he claims he sits in his ivory tower and doesn’t get involved)

Throwing the TFC chequebook at Laryea would have been the classic lazy PR move Manning pretty much trademarked during his stint as our worthless TFC president.

I think he probably wanted to but Hernandez prevented it.

[leedsandTFC]

Throwing the TFC chequebook at Laryea would have been the classic lazy PR move Manning pretty much trademarked during his stint as our worthless TFC president.

yep, would have been ultra short term thinking to placate the fanbase while being a very bad decision in the long run.

i'll bet they are already wishing they could get out of the oso contract.

[ag futbol]

I think they have eyes for nobody. We shouldn't sign anyone in this window. Should be about dumping excess (as in pretty much everyone) trash.

Clear the deck for the new manager. Nobody should be surprised or upset that we're doing little. You should be upset that buyout is still sitting there when it could at least solve one problem.

Will said manger be making roster decisions though? Sounds like it’s being left to Hernandez before and after the hire.

Leaving that aside, after the experience with Bob, I’d greatly prefer those roles be separated.

[Ultra & Proud]

Will said manger be making roster decisions though? Sounds like it’s being left to Hernandez before and after the hire.

Leaving that aside, after the experience with Bob, I’d greatly prefer those roles be separated.

Depends on who we get I guess. If it's some younger guy like Kah then I guess Hernandez will be a big voice in moves but if it were an old head like Arena I think he would have a big say.