TFC 2023 player in-season roster discussion

[FiveThreeTwo]

He’s name dropped oso a few times as someone he plans on looking to to help pick the team up…sooo… (but seriously don’t think it changes this season)

Do I personally think oso has the leadership chops to command and inspire an MLS level club? No. Is it possible herdman uses him as an anchor symbol to what it means to wear Toronto colours, as a long standing member and member of the CMNT - and be the handover from mb4 to start next season? I could see it.

Could be a neutral way to solve the matter between DPs too - we don’t have one standing out over the other, so to give it to someone neutral like that, is a way to deal with one feeling slightly left out over the other. I could seriously see it being Oso in short term given what options are available. That all gets questioned I suppose if he keeps dropping in form even under herdman.

one thing that I understand from the pressers and herdman vibe is that he wants to bring back Canadian flavour/Toronto flavour infused with international talents - where both are seen as ways to fill out the roster in equal consideration vs. Our recent past of just filling holes with international pickups and Americans. He definitely even tho not involved with CMNT, wants to have the NT pool filled with players from TFC or moved on from here; - like a Bayern/Barca/Madrid/Porto/Benfica/Boca/RiverPlate/Ajax have done conventionally with their NTs. So oso could be a way to tie that next overall theme together… but who knows - just the way I see it tho.

[Mr. Inbetween]

I guess the team is on a bit of a break as Berna and Insigne are vacationing in South Beach Miami together with their families.

Check out this tweet at https://x.com/prizby/status/1699130385924272551?s=61

[OgtheDim]

Captain? MB for rest of season
Rationale - "He's been a figurehead for Toronto for so long and has such a presence..."


2024

Well hopefully MB retires so its Oso
Rationale - "He is everything this club is about - a proud Canadian, a proud Torontonian...a player who has brought...

[ensco]

I think it's a given that Oso is the captain in 2024, and I think he is a fine choice. He is not the greatest TV interview, but he sure is vocal, and exhibits tons of leadership and passion on the field (he does more of that than MB).

Re MB, he won’t retire unless he can get a Jason Hernandez type role (let's call it the “young GM” slot) somewhere. Or maybe a meaningful job at the league office, like the one that got Bez the TFC job.

Otherwise, he is a warrior, and he will want that other half of his pay cheque that he gave up this year. Suspect he will be elsewhere in MLS. He makes no sense here, he would be an excellent depth MF for a good team.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Rip that band-aid right off immediately; no waiting. Osorio… Captain by FIFA technical necessity!? Otherwise, prefer a Deion Sanders-esque approach; Leaders/Capi and Dawgs/Cani. For now, The Leaders being Johnson, Bernardeschi, Vazquez and The Dawgs… Bradley, Insigne; and Laryea when he returns .

[JoesphNdo]

Oso as captain makes sense to me, but I firmly expect MB to be here next season. 1) Nobody will pick him up on the contract he's on 2) He'll want to play, for financial reasons (Can't blame him, he's owed the money) and that's just how he is and 3) I agree he would retire if given a path into management and/or towards the GM side, but I don't see an obvious path here right now.

Personally I thinkk we should clean out as much of the team as possible, but I just don't see how Bradley gores. I find it very hard to believe he's bought out. So he's here, and if he's here, he'll likely be captain

[Ultra & Proud]

Oso as captain makes sense to me, but I firmly expect MB to be here next season. 1) Nobody will pick him up on the contract he's on 2) He'll want to play, for financial reasons (Can't blame him, he's owed the money) and that's just how he is and 3) I agree he would retire if given a path into management and/or towards the GM side, but I don't see an obvious path here right now.

Personally I thinkk we should clean out as much of the team as possible, but I just don't see how Bradley gores. I find it very hard to believe he's bought out. So he's here, and if he's here, he'll likely be captain

My prediction is that he will be Herdman's new Atiba. Probably won't start every match but enough of them and he will use him on the bench as well like an assistant.

[ag futbol]

Ha, that's funny. Definitely suggests some of the stories we've heard are false.

I definitely got that impression (without trying to observe overly). Everyone seemed to know each other. No way they’d be hanging out in their free time if there was animosity.

[ensco]

No. I see the MB question totally differently. This is a major test for Herdman.

Elephant in the room is that MB was kind of the GM here with BB, especially in the early decisions where all those guys got cleaned out without even speaking to Bob. Even if it isn’t true, that is for sure what all the players thought.

That whole setup was as massive a code violation as exists in sports, it was poison, and Herdman would have heard lots about all that in real time.

Now, none of this is MB's “fault”, exactly, but if Herdman is really doing “culture reset”…. MB has to go. In fact, he has to be the first to go.

MB’s departure may well be in the offseason, and not October 1, I don’t know re roster rules, trades, buyout… but I will be totally shocked if Herdman doesn’t see it this way.

[jloome]

I don't think Oso has the mindset to be captain and I don't think Herdman will pick him for it.

He's extremely passionate, but also highly self-critical. He actually smacked himself in the head during the last game after spraying a wayward pass to the right side. He's often harder on himself that is productive, and he misses a lot of games to injuries.

A captain has to be emotionally balanced and level. Oso has never struck me as that. I could well be wrong, but he's exhibited enough self-doubt and worry about various things that I just don't seem him being that guy. Too anxious.

[jloome]

I definitely got that impression (without trying to observe overly). Everyone seemed to know each other. No way they’d be hanging out in their free time if there was animosity.

I've heard so many "two sides" stories about player shit now, I suspect at this point that someone on the coaching staff is leaking this shit to try and get rid of players they don't like.

I have two people in the front office who have routinely told me stuff, including how exaggerated this shit is. One of those quite often -- as in we've talked at least once a week every week this season -- and both are people who MIGHT have benefited from sewing some discord... but then turned around and told me (and a few media folk) that it was all discord.

If they were the ones putting this shit out there, they wouldn't also be contradicting it a day later. I'd like to credit them with the subtle intellect required to be an arsonist who's also a fire investigator to cover their own tracks, but nothing else suggests that level of guile.

So it's either someone fairly low level in the office, or it's a coach, or it's a player who never plays and just fucking hates a few of his teammates.

I lean towards coach/player, because at least two incidents involved so-called dustups at training... and no one else is there, other than the coaches and players. The sessions are usually closed to everyone else.

As such, I'm not sure they'll be able to figure out who it is. They're probably smart enough to be tipping people from private email accounts, after hours.

[Kamp Berg]

I've heard so many "two sides" stories about player shit now, I suspect at this point that someone on the coaching staff is leaking this shit to try and get rid of players they don't like.

I have two people in the front office who have routinely told me stuff, including how exaggerated this shit is. One of those quite often -- as in we've talked at least once a week every week this season -- and both are people who MIGHT have benefited from sewing some discord... but then turned around and told me (and a few media folk) that it was all discord.

If they were the ones putting this shit out there, they wouldn't also be contradicting it a day later. I'd like to credit them with the subtle intellect required to be an arsonist who's also a fire investigator to cover their own tracks, but nothing else suggests that level of guile.

So it's either someone fairly low level in the office, or it's a coach, or it's a player who never plays and just fucking hates a few of his teammates.

I lean towards coach/player, because at least two incidents involved so-called dustups at training... and no one else is there, other than the coaches and players. The sessions are usually closed to everyone else.

As such, I'm not sure they'll be able to figure out who it is. They're probably smart enough to be tipping people from private email accounts, after hours.

Would be interesting if it turned out to be Conway.

[ag futbol]

No. I see the MB question totally differently. This is a major test for Herdman.

Elephant in the room is that MB was kind of the GM here with BB, especially in the early decisions where all those guys got cleaned out without even speaking to Bob. Even if it isn’t true, that is for sure what all the players thought.

That whole setup was as massive a code violation as exists in sports, it was poison, and Herdman would have heard lots about all that in real time.

Now, none of this is MB's “fault”, exactly, but if Herdman is really doing “culture reset”…. MB has to go. In fact, he has to be the first to go.

MB’s departure may well be in the offseason, and not October 1, I don’t know re roster rules, trades, buyout… but I will be totally shocked if Herdman doesn’t see it this way.

Yeah, I stand by my take MB has to go in the off-season. Even if it’s just eating his salary with no buyout and him not playing. Just too much history there and we need to turn the page.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yeah, I stand by my take MB has to go in the off-season. Even if it’s just eating his salary with no buyout and him not playing. Just too much history there and we need to turn the page.

I agree but I would include Osorio in the clean out too. Time for change.

[JoesphNdo]

No. I see the MB question totally differently. This is a major test for Herdman.

Elephant in the room is that MB was kind of the GM here with BB, especially in the early decisions where all those guys got cleaned out without even speaking to Bob. Even if it isn’t true, that is for sure what all the players thought.

That whole setup was as massive a code violation as exists in sports, it was poison, and Herdman would have heard lots about all that in real time.

Now, none of this is MB's “fault”, exactly, but if Herdman is really doing “culture reset”…. MB has to go. In fact, he has to be the first to go.

MB’s departure may well be in the offseason, and not October 1, I don’t know re roster rules, trades, buyout… but I will be totally shocked if Herdman doesn’t see it this way.

I agree this is what *should* happen, I just don't see the path there. Maybe this is one where Herdman just makes it a 'hill to die on', but Manning isn't suffering the bad press of buying out the contract of a player like Bradley if they don't want to leave without somebody really putting a knife to his throat on it. Nobody will trade for him at his wages, and I don't see a path upstairs. So the question isn't should he go for me, it's what's the road to get there?

[Ultra & Proud]

Nobody will trade for him at his wages

Unless his Dad ends up in New England. Plus his wages are still high-ish considering his output but under the threshold so not terrible.

[ensco]

I agree this is what *should* happen, I just don't see the path there. Maybe this is one where Herdman just makes it a 'hill to die on', but Manning isn't suffering the bad press of buying out the contract of a player like Bradley if they don't want to leave without somebody really putting a knife to his throat on it. Nobody will trade for him at his wages, and I don't see a path upstairs. So the question isn't should he go for me, it's what's the road to get there?

It's pretty easy, actually. They hve done far worse.

They bought out Jozy when he was owed $6.3M. Maybe they paid a bit less than that, I would guess TFC paid him $4.8M (the difference between Jozy's TFC contract and what the Revs gave him).

MB would cost less than a million to buy out. That's worst case.

I think a bunch of teams would be very interested in MB for a year on $500K or similar. He could be what Ozzy Alonso was a couple of years ago in Seattle then Minnesota.

[JoesphNdo]

It's pretty easy, actually. They hve done far worse.

They bought out Jozy when he was owed $6.3M. Maybe they paid a bit less than that, I would guess TFC paid him $4.8M (the difference between Jozy's TFC contract and what the Revs gave him).

MB would cost less than a million to buy out. That's worst case.

I think a bunch of teams would be very interested in MB for a year on $500K or similar. He could be what Ozzy Alonso was a couple of years ago in Seattle then Minnesota.

I don't think it's the money - though it might be the money, MLSE may be cutting down on costs based on what we've seen - it's the optics. Jozy was one thing (We could easily blame injuries and his never playing there), I just don't think Manning wants to sit in front of the fans and say our club captain, a legend in many eyes, wanted to stay and we told him to f off. It's just not his style at all. I would genuinely say the odds of a contract extension are higher than a buy out that Michael doesn't want. Michael Bradley has been the marketing face of this team since he signed here, I just don't think that's a Bill Manning move

This is all just speculation & I hope I'm wrong but I don't see it

RE: Trade, I think he's lightyears off what Ozzy Alonso was at that point and don't see it at that price, either. I think you'll get a far better return on that money elsewhere. But again, I could be wrong, and his being a big name US player (albeit, not a popular one anymore) might make someone spring for him, similar to Jozy at New England. But I wouldn't count on it.

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

I don't think it's the money - though it might be the money, MLSE may be cutting down on costs based on what we've seen - it's the optics. Jozy was one thing (We could easily blame injuries and his never playing there), I just don't think Manning wants to sit in front of the fans and say our club captain, a legend in many eyes, wanted to stay and we told him to f off. It's just not his style at all. I would genuinely say the odds of a contract extension are higher than a buy out that Michael doesn't want.

This is all just speculation & I hope I'm wrong but I don't see it

I wouldn’t be surprised if Manning pays MB another favour by offering the academy gig in exchange for retirement and they creatively avoid a buyout.

That will be a good test on the Herdman relationship with Manning as well.

[MikeForbes]

I strongly dislike international breaks. No games, no rumors. Just endless speculation.

[ag futbol]

I strongly dislike international breaks. No games, no rumors. Just endless speculation.

Blame the CSA for that one. Despite record interest in the national team, we are so poor that we can’t even host games to make us money.

[Valdal]

Osorio to me just is not captain material. Hes not good in interviews. His injury history lately is not good. A leader and Captain needs to be on the field each and every day. Its hard when youre always in the trainers box, rehabbing a injury and very critically of your game. Osorio is all of these things. Can any one really see him this season and say " Yes, that is the guy that will lead our locker room"

[Ultra & Proud]

Can any one really see him this season and say " Yes, that is the guy that will lead our locker room"

He was in the locker room during some of our worst periods of infighting, dissent, & fracturing and he was older and considered a "leader" during that time. All he did was manage to keep quiet through it all and while that was probably the smart thing to do, it surely doesn't shine on him as being a leader of that locker room going forward.

[portu]

He was in the locker room during some of our worst periods of infighting, dissent, & fracturing and he was older and considered a "leader" during that time. All he did was manage to keep quiet through it all and while that was probably the smart thing to do, it surely doesn't shine on him as being a leader of that locker room going forward.

I think that changes if you empower him with the armband.

He’s sitting in there with experienced internationals with no real power right now. He’s shown strong flashes on the pitch.

[jloome]

I think the purported state of our locker room is clear evidence our next captain should be a new signing.

[Richard]

I think the purported state of our locker room is clear evidence our next captain should be a new signing.

I don't know if it's possible but I think TFC should have the captain role vacant for at least half a season once MB is gone.

Herdman should bring in his players and come to a decision sometime mid next year.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think the purported state of our locker room is clear evidence our next captain should be a new signing.

I think they should have "leader" and "Captain" earmarked as important criteria when looking at a new DP this winter. They should be looking for a Bradley type player who can walk in and be captain from day one without missing a beat.

[jloome]

I think they should have "leader" and "Captain" earmarked as important criteria when looking at a new DP this winter. They should be looking for a Bradley type player who can walk in and be captain from day one without missing a beat.

Yeah, that's it. Pretty much the only sensible way to go. Doesn't have to be a DP, but someone who has been a captain at their other club and has a rep for sensible consistency.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think that changes if you empower him with the armband.

He’s sitting in there with experienced internationals with no real power right now. He’s shown strong flashes on the pitch.

Do you really think him putting on that Toronto flag armband is magically going to make the Italians respect him? They have their opinion on him already and pretty much everyone else on the roster and I find it hard to believe they'd be interested in taking orders from a mediocre Osorio. If they're staying then the team needs a strong personality to step in and demand that respect. Bradley has that but he's washed so they need a similarly outspoken, hard personality to deal with the mess our locker room is. I'm not saying they need a tough type player that the Italians will fear but I'm also not, not saying it either. The other option would be a Messi type superstar but that's not happening since the last couple stars we signed turned out to be shit.

[Ultra & Proud]

Yeah, that's it. Pretty much the only sensible way to go. Doesn't have to be a DP, but someone who has been a captain at their other club and has a rep for sensible consistency.

No it doesn't need to be a DP but I think to get the respect of our "stars", the player would need some clout. Or just be fearsome and not one to cross.