TFC 2023 player in-season roster discussion

[jloome]

t
sapong is an MLS level journeyman striker who can ruun the channels...

Dude is 34, had five goals last year and hasn't played a minute this year. EDIT: I'm wrong, he's played in eight games. But he hasn't scored or assisted on a goal yet.

(I'm being overly cynical; he's a hard-working player even if not a very good finisher. he might do okay for us. It just seems reductive and stupid to continue pushing an offensive tactical set that doesn't work with our players. CJ Sapong isn't going to make us quicker, more fluid or more able to handle being overrun on the transition.)

[FootBallAZ]

If they were going to trade anyone with terrible performance I would have done
MAK
M.B.

Before McNaughton

[leedsandTFC]

Dude is 34, had five goals last year and hasn't played a minute this year. We'll be lucky if he can run at all.

(I'm being overly cynical; he's a hard-working player even if not a very good finisher. he might do okay for us. It just seems reductive and stupid to continue pushing an offensive tactical set that doesn't work with our players. CJ Sapong isn't going to make us quicker, more fluid or more able to handle being overrun on the transition.)

he's played 8 games this year, starting 4 (including against us).

[jloome]

If they were going to trade anyone with terrible performance I would have done
MAK
M.B.

Before McNaughton

As uneven as MAK can be, he's twenty times the player McNaughton is.

McNaughton is TWENTY-EIGHT. He's not going to get better.

[jloome]

he's played 8 games this year, starting 4 (including against us).

My apologies, one of their fans on Reddit said "hasn't scored a goal yet" and I remembered that as "hasn't played a game yet."

Yes, he's played eight.

He has zero goals and zero assists, he's passing at a 69% clip, and averaging 47 minutes weekly.

BUT on the upside, he wins 2.4 headers per game and we are TERRIBLE up the middle at winning the ball in the air, second lowest in the league last time I checked (a few games ago).

They're attempting a "moneyball" move, getting a hold up guy who wins headers. Still, seems sadly desperate.

[leedsandTFC]

My apologies, one of their fans on Reddit said "hasn't scored a goal yet" and I remembered that as "hasn't played a game yet."

Yes, he's played eight. He has zero goals and zero assists.

yep, but when you watch nashville and how defensive they are you can see why they don't score many (8 in 9 games) and a lot of his role is movement off the ball to make space for mukhtar.

let's see how it plays out, but when you look at our forward pool, we needed to do something and couldnt afford to wait til the summer.

diomande acquisition failed, akinola, perruzza, kerr have not been up to it. at least sapong is a proven MLS target man (albeit an average one), could argue that none of those others are.

[Ultra & Proud]

My apologies, one of their fans on Reddit said "hasn't scored a goal yet" and I remembered that as "hasn't played a game yet."

Yes, he's played eight. He has zero goals and zero assists.

But the majority of their supporters are not happy with the deal.

Sifting through their complaints I see:

Sappong does a lot for the team and was important for Mukhtar but doesn't score much, if at all. Apparently good team guy too. Most not happy he moved.

MacNaughton played 3 matches and TFC got mostly steamrolled when he was out there and he is 28.

They got GAM but they never use it so they aren't sure why the team is collecting it.

Most likely this deal is a wash. After last weekend we probably weren't going to see MacNaughton out there again this season unless in the VC or if we got ravaged by injury. Sappong probably won't score much, if at all. If he can move and hold up the ball to allow Insigne + Bernardeschi to advance and maybe get a few chances, then it's a bonus. All in all, probably a whole lot of nothing either way.

[AdamAM]

We keep developing and discovering players and in the process losing games and seasons to get them MLS-ready and Nashville keeps swooping in and grabbing them for pennies on the dollar. Shaff and now this.

Obviously Lukas is not a 34 game starter in MLS but he had some decent games last year, and is completely serviceable as a 3rd and especially 4th CB. To give that away for what amounts to 6 months of a guy who never was more than somewhere between decent and good in his prime in MLS is terrifying. It really speaks to where management has their heads at.

Bob is really, really bad at asset management. He plays favourites and doesn’t check his biases. Our already half-empty cupboard continues to get more bare.

[jloome]

yep, but when you watch nashville and how defensive they are you can see why they don't score many (8 in 9 games) and a lot of his role is movement off the ball to make space for mukhtar.

let's see how it plays out, but when you look at our forward pool, we needed to do something and couldnt afford to wait til the summer.

diomande acquisition failed, akinola, perruzza, kerr have not been up to it. at least sapong is a proven MLS target man (albeit an average one), could argue that none of those others are.

He might do okay, you're right.

But this is only required because they badly overestimated the abilities of the forwards we have, or Bob's ability to integrate them into his system.

Really, the problem is his system. With the ideal lineup (LAFC) it works great. I've watched LAFC's last three games; they play EXACTLY the same offensive set we do, right down to switching to the 442 while defending. For all the Cherundolo praise last year, it's Bob's system in use there.

But the perfect roster alchemy is a lot harder to achieve than adapting tactics to fit who you have.

That setup is never going to work with our mid-field. We're just not quick enough against younger, faster teams.

By getting Sapong, it suggests to me they're not going to change tactical approach. I have zero confidence it will work. I don't know why, having watched it fail here repeatedly for a year now, we would expect that it will. One game against a Charlotte team that is bunkering proves nothing.

[jloome]

BAll in all, probably a whole lot of nothing either way.

Except we also gave up $200,000 in GAM. So, the wash becomes a one-way loss.

Really, we didn't need a whole lot of nothing either way. We needed a goal scoring target forward. We knew we needed one before the seaosn and he's given us... Adama Diomande, 33, and CJ Sapong, 34.

[Ultra & Proud]

We keep developing and discovering players and in the process losing games and seasons to get them MLS-ready and Nashville keeps swooping in and grabbing them for pennies on the dollar. Shaff and now this.

Obviously Lukas is not a 34 game starter in MLS but he had some decent games last year, and is completely serviceable as a 3rd and especially 4th CB. To give that away for what amounts to 6 months of a guy who never was more than somewhere between decent and good in his prime in MLS is terrifying. It really speaks to where management has their heads at.

Bob is really, really bad at asset management. He plays favourites and doesn’t check his biases. Our already half-empty cupboard continues to get more bare.

Not this time. Shaff yes but not MacNaughton. He just isn't that good and not as good as he thinks he is when he gets a run of minutes. Even on us, he should be 4th CB and for that you might as well take a flyer on a guy like this Mabika.

No chance MacNaughton does anything of note in Nashville.

[leedsandTFC]

He might do okay, you're right.

But this is only required because they badly overestimated the abilities of the forwards we have, or Bob's ability to integrate them into his system.

Really, the problem is his system. With the ideal lineup (LAFC) it works great. I've watched LAFC's last three games; they play EXACTLY the same offensive set we do, right down to switching to the 442 while defending. For all the Cherundolo praise last year, it's Bob's system in use there.

But the perfect roster alchemy is a lot harder to achieve than adapting tactics to fit who you have.

That setup is never going to work with our mid-field. We're just not quick enough against younger, faster teams.

By getting Sapong, it suggests to me they're not going to change tactical approach. I have zero confidence it will work. I don't know why, having watched it fail here repeatedly for a year now, we would expect that it will. One game against a Charlotte team that is bunkering proves nothing.

yeah cherundolo was there when bob was, they haven't changed up at all since he left, just got healthy and added bouanga.

i still am of the opinion that we badly need a DP 9 in the summer. but i also don't think we can afford to hang around and wait while we learn repeatedly that dio cant stay healthy and the other 3 aren't good enough.

sometimes a change of scenery for these MLS journeymen strikers is incredibly fruitful.

look at kei kamara who scored 9 goals in the 2 seasons combined before signing for mtl last year at the age of 37.

[jloome]

He just isn't that good and not as good as he thinks he is when he gets a run of minutes.

I really feel he shot himself in the foot. Again, contagious arrogance. Too many games of taking an extra yard, trying to beat a guy, making a quick risky pass that instead goes right to an attacker.

He has all the tools but not the mindset to be consistent and safe.

[Ultra & Proud]

Except we also gave up $200,000 in GAM. So, the wash becomes a one-way loss.

Really, we didn't need a whole lot of nothing either way. We needed a goal scoring target forward. We knew we needed one before the seaosn and he's given us... Adama Diomande, 33, and CJ Sapong, 34.

GAM might end up being nothing by the next window but yes, Bob's faith in what we had and what he knew failed us. Sappong probably won't do much either. The problem now is more Bob wanting guys he knows to use in his system instead of changing his system to suit the players we actually have. So we've reached the point where we just sit back and watch it burn until the great reset happens again.

[leedsandTFC]

Not this time. Shaff yes but not MacNaughton. He just isn't that good and not as good as he thinks he is when he gets a run of minutes. Even on us, he should be 4th CB and for that you might as well take a flyer on a guy like this Mabika.

No chance MacNaughton does anything of note in Nashville.

macnaughton got exposed badly on saturday, and was responsible directly for at least 2 goals, maybe 3. it was brutal to watch and i thought we might not see him play for us again after that.

[Smokecell]

macnaughton got exposed badly on saturday, and was responsible directly for at least 2 goals, maybe 3. it was brutal to watch and i thought we might not see him play for us again after that.

I had MacNaughton penciled in as a solid depth piece for the year, but I have to say that I agree with this.

[ag futbol]

I’m not worried about the loss of MacNaughton but tying up cap space and sending out GAM when both those things could contribute to our ability to sign a better player in the summer feels downright stupid.

I agree with someone who said they’re tinkering to save their asses. They shouldn’t be given the freedom to move like this to the detriment of their potential successors.

[Richard]

MacNaughton can have a bad game?

Yes of course.

Look, I'm not going to die on a hill for him, but historically these are the type of moves that bit us before.

I feel like a lot your are undervaluing him when this is MLS, in a solid team system these minimum depth player's can play their role over a long season.

[Ultra & Proud]

macnaughton got exposed badly on saturday, and was responsible directly for at least 2 goals, maybe 3. it was brutal to watch and i thought we might not see him play for us again after that.

I didn't want to see him play for us again but I sort of expected that with his performances this season he would drop to 5th CB behind Hedges, Rosted, O'Neill, and probably MB or even Pearlman on short term loan.

[los sonadores]

Funny, it smacks of desperation but I don’t mind it because it was what was possible now on the last day of our window.

Diomande, even when he was hot at LAFC, didn’t play every game. A rotation of he and Sapong can hold the ball up, win headers, make smarter runs and Diomande at least should be able to score. We’ve had exactly zero of any of that so far. I think we’re better now than we were yesterday. Unless Diomande is done… but we don’t know anything about that. We’ve got 9 games or something in 4 weeks coming up, I expect both will play. For better or worse this will get us through to the summer window.

I don’t think we were ever getting a DP striker anyway not unless it’s an under 22. My guess is that Richie will be the low cost DP, Ayo will be bought out and with that 600k we’ll add a full compliment of under 22s, one of which will be a striker.

[Ultra & Proud]

MacNaughton can have a bad game?

Yes of course.

Look, I'm not going to die on a hill for him, but historically these are the type of moves that bit us before.

I feel like a lot your are undervaluing him when this is MLS, in a solid team system these minimum depth player's can play their role over a long season.

He's not that guy. Maybe a spot start here and there on an organized team but really he is CPL quality. I liked him and wanted him to do well but he isn't one we will every look back and rue the day we moved him.

[SenorDingDong]

I’m not worried about the loss of MacNaughton but tying up cap space and sending out GAM when both those things could contribute to our ability to sign a better player in the summer feels downright stupid.

I agree with someone who said they’re tinkering to save their asses. They shouldn’t be given the freedom to move like this to the detriment of their potential successors.

They needed to make a move. Honestly in this window there isn't much available.

[ag futbol]

He's not that guy. Maybe a spot start here and there on an organized team but really he is CPL quality. I liked him and wanted him to do well but he isn't one we will every look back and rue the day we moved him.

I would have liked to see him play next to Hedges or some other capable organizer first before completely coming to that conclusion. Let’s be honest, Rosted’s not nearly as capable without a stronger CB next to him either.

But as the OP said, not really morning that loss too much.

[ag futbol]

They needed to make a move. Honestly in this window there isn't much available.

The bar isn’t high here. There would be plenty of players in summer. It’s when most leagues are open to do business.

[Areathrasher]

I just don't know. I could talk myself into liking these moves and I could absolutely lose my shit about these moves.

It's all very meh

[leedsandTFC]

Reminder that the league could have ditched the current transfer market style by the summer and could have embraced a cash transfer window.

[FootBallAZ]

The last three seasons have been a nightmare a lot called for a bad season with Armas in charge .

A lot liked Bob but disagreed with banishing useful players for no value in return.

I kinda gave up on trying to make sense of nonsensical management.


My only Q - If our 32 yr old stud CB was injured and is coming back from concession and tfc traded away CB in McNaughton- what happens when hedges isn't ready to play ?

[los sonadores]

Bradley was quoted as saying he’s looking for Sapong to impose himself in front of goal. Diomande should also be able to be commanding close to goal. We have (still?) zero touches in the box from our strikers. A rotation of Diomande and Sapong should help everyone out because as JLoome pointed out it’s like we’ve been playing with 10 men. If that continues until July we’re screwed.

[SenorDingDong]

The bar isn’t high here. There would be plenty of players in summer. It’s when most leagues are open to do business.

I'm Certain they still will make moves in July. I don't think any move here means we don't there.

But they need to get us winning some games before then.

[ensco]

Can somebody explain the Mabika part?

The guy is a late first rounder, plays some during covid, never sees the field again, disappears from sight, is left off Miami's protected list for the expansion draft… and is worth 200K in GAM?