I wouldn't take him at all if I were them. As it is maybe a couple million Euros tops if they're desperate & stupid.Originally Posted by Canary10
Nobody would be stupid enough to pay him what we are though. He wasn't worth that then and now he is worth even less.
i mean, juve have 8 players making more than bernardeschi right now, and another 2 or 3 in the same ballpark.
if we let him leave for free (aka no loan or transfer fee), i could see them taking him. in terms of total cost (wages + transfer fee/ divided by contract length), bernardeschi on a free would be on the mid-lower end of their squad in terms of cost, even on current wages.
source:
https://football-italia.net/juventus...l-the-details/
my worry is that they look at how he's played this year and pass lol.
Last edited by leedsandTFC; 10-12-2023 at 10:33 AM.
Lol! Yup, that is a worry.
Last edited by Canary10; 10-12-2023 at 11:22 AM.
Insigne pushing Sarri for the reunion if rumours are to be believed.
Hope Sarri takes him with no cost to us. I guess he has made probably ~20M here now so that's a decent sum to cash out on.
https://thelaziali.com/2023/10/12/in...on-lazio-move/
i pray
He was crocked, from their perspective, before he left Italy. Yeah, he was on €8M before he left, but he was also being shuttled from position to position, coming off the bench. He was not the player he'd been, due to a bad ACL tear in 2018.
He had four goals in four full years of play prior to joining us. I have a hard time seeing them ignore that. They know his second gear isn't what it was, and he's demonstrated here that he can't beat more than one marker.
It just doesn't seem realistic, certainly not with respect to shedding salary.
Again, they didn't want him when his Napoli deal was up.
The only other offer he got was from Napoli itself, for half the money he was making on his old deal. Because he's 32 and no longer quick, and slightly injury prone.
Plus, he's still owed over $20M in salary and bonuses. He's not going to eat that just to live in Italy, not when he's probably going to retire (based on his play decline) at the end of this deal.
It's just not realistic on any level: from their perspective he's expensive and old, from his he'd be giving up tens of millions of dollars.
It's not going to happen.
The only hope we have of either leaving is that someone in the UAE or Saudi offers to pick up their deals. At the level of their performance even BEFORE this year, that was probably the case. Now, it's definite.
The front office is desperate to unload them and if the players were willing to eat ANY significant amount of their deals, TFC would take it.
But there's a reason they're talking in terms of praying Herdman can get them to see the light and adjust their play and effort.
Barring extreme good fortune, I fully expect both to be here next season.
I even think they've moved beyond what our DPs can offer. Technically our DPs are producing at sub TAM levels. Nobody paying for that.
From the few conversations we've had in the last month (they're been a lot quieter and more occupied with actual business, as far as I can tell) I think they're hoping beyond hope that strengthening the starting core and having way less dependence on youth will bring them back to a productive level.
And they might be right. Let's face it, between injuries, age and poor decisions, their average teammate for most of the season was a 22-year-old with little MLS level experience. Take away the DPs and the oft-injured TAM (Hedges, Osorio, Bradley) and we have the lowest payroll in the league for what's left, less than $8M for the season.
Add in a complete lack of midfield speed, no striker with any pedigree or dependability (although I think Owusu may come good, but he was added late) and there is a point to be made.
I'm not saying I think it'll work. But if we bring in a strong defense, a proper mid anchor and some speed in the eight and ten positions, they likely would be more effective.
Certainly, they blame the other players, not themselves. Their argument continues to be 'we can't play this style of football, and our teammates can't play proper football,' essentially.
I think the real problem is that without a severe attitude change, even a better team around them will be miserable, as they've really been a pair of toxic cunts for a good chunk of the season.
One of the great ironies in this is that Bradley approved of both -- and was actively involved with the Bernardeschi choice -- and yet he's the guy who purged 18 players over two years for not being of the right mindset. Clearly, whether a decent coach or not, he was no judge of talent or attitude.
Last edited by jloome; 10-12-2023 at 12:24 PM.
It's surprising that they refuse to see they aren't as advertised. Like I get that the team around them is poor and that for sure is a factor but if you have asked either last summer if they could succeed with youth around them and be able to take players on in MLS and be productive they would have laughed at the question. At some point you would think they would look at themselves and think "we/I have to do something here to get this on track" instead of repeatedly doing the same idiocy (Bernadeschi) or "feeling something" to avoid playing as often as possible like Insigne.
My sense is that over the last two months, Bernardeschi's attitude and effort has improved. I would even say dramatically. But he is not quite quick enough to be individually dominant; he's very skilled, but he DOES need a team to perform at his best that can predict and move with him.
Insigne, on the other hand, has been treated like a blue chip for a very long time. I think he's convinced himself it's just disrespectful that he doesn't get a Tata Martino or Marcello Bielsa as his manager, like at Miami, and that anything he tries is likely to fail, because it's not "proper football."
The fact that open, less disciplined football is played in almost every league other than Serie A and the Premier League doesn't faze him, as he's always been considered a top player. So he sees no reason why the situation shouldn't adapt to him, rather than the other way around. And he knows the money they're paying him handcuffs them to trying to work with him, so....
He's a bit of a dick, in other words. An oblivious, "wants to do the right thing" kind of dick, but still a dick.
If you listen to McKennie, Weah, Pulisic and other Americans talk about Serie A and adapting, they all say it's much more difficult than players expect, because the offensive sets are ENTIRELY tactical, entirely based on team movement, rotating and maintaining possession until someone in the defense is lulled or tricked into providing an opening.
That's what he wants: great looking team interplay, fewer shots but more on frame, everyone is equally responsible.
Last edited by jloome; 10-12-2023 at 12:38 PM.
He probably should have watched some MLS matches before securing his bag.
Since he didn't or thought he was good enough to change the league and how it works then he should STFU and do something.
Not sure I would want media calling me the biggest DP bust in MLS history but I have pride.
I just want to say, Hi!
also Herdman sent Ibarra home - I hated this move from the beginning, glad to see it
https://x.com/johnmolinaro/status/17...gnuvoekh9VGF_w
———
Resume the primal screams….
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Sensible move. He did not want to be here, and wasn't buying into any notion of that changing.
You were right, dumb forcing a guy to be here who doesn't want it.
Given that most of our coverage is in English, I doubt he's reading any of it. Yeah, you'd think pride would be a factor. But perhaps his perspective is "pride in what? This isn't football."
This is probably true. I can see that.
But if I was a player and I got an offer from the UAE league or similar, I would watch a lot of matches before I made my decision and do a lot of internet research on things. I wouldn't automatically assume I would succeed no matter what but I get how some players who were given everything from a young age would think there's no way they wouldn't succeed in some small league.
Just really speaks to the fact our scouting on the Insigne signing was profoundly stupid.
These are the sort of conversations that should have happened before ink met paper.
The conversations:
Scouting : Google Transfermarkt. Look at free agents. See Italy. Smile with dollar signs in eyes.
Conversation (due diligence) with Insigne : "What restaurants do you like?", "Have you heard of the Raptors?", "We have a Little Italy in Toronto", "How much should the cheque say for you to sign?"
Is it harsh to call it strike one against Hernandez?
I don't think it is, but others might think so...
I dunno if I'd call it a first 'strike', or that magnitude of failure, but it's a failure. Yes, he potentially filled a need -- although he clearly did not want to be a six, so it wasn't our primary need -- but his attitude was terrible from the get go, which suggests they took him out of expediency: he was available, Atlanta wanted him gone, we needed the body.
But he's not got the right attitude, clearly, and I do wonder if one of the reasons they've gone out for Sean Rubio is they want BOTH aspects addressed in recruitment, the hard numbers but also the attitude.
Rubio has developed contacts across MLS and CONCACAF. So while Hernandez might spot someone whose hard numbers are good and who is available, Rubio will potentially be able to suss out more quickly if the person has issues.
^Only contenders rent players for the stretch run. It is utterly senseless for last place teams to do it.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
There was a theory at the time that we were the "smallest" bidder for Ibarra.
**
Wondering if anybody else has had that "the players I really want to look at and players I want to work with." talk. Will be intriguing to see who is a "non injury" scratch for next week.
I didn’t hate it on paper. In theory there was an opportunity for purchase.
Hearing more-and-more about his character flaws though. Dumb move. What are we trying to do, pour gas on the fire that is our shitty locker room? Hernandez should have known better and checked particulars.
Was Sapong injured. From his Insta he may already be at home in Southern US.
Probably not in Herdman's plans since he won't be here next season so no point in being in the 18 for the last match.
At least they won a bunch of games and changed Coello's life by his mere presence.
You're welcome, Atlanta.
I appreciate that these are the kind of conversations Herdman is having with guys now. Definitely needed.
I think we have at least one positive out of this season: DeAndre Kerr is only 20. He has 5 goals in 22 appearances this year and his movement and finding space in the box got better.
He could have a genuine future in MLS. He looks a lot like Gyassi Zardes at the same age. I'm not seeing an instinctive poacher who knows how to always trick a back line yet, and I'm not saying his ceiling is high in Europe or anything, but I can see him getting 10-15 a season for a long time.
Hopefully Herdman can make him a little more aggressive, teach him how to split defenders rather than just running off the back shoulder. He had a nice headed goal earlier in the year, and he didn't blow a ton of chances, he just didn't see the ball much most games because we had zero service or speed of movement to open anyone up.
Coello has a real upside as a midfielder but he seems to lack the athletic edge of quickness and strength. His technique and vision are very, very good, better than much of this league; but his habits got steadily worse as the season progressed (the Richard Eckersley effect) under a bad team, and without speed or quickness, he can't afford to do that.
So he sort of regressed a little from the earliest appearances to later. Part of that, however, might be that Terry played him very deep, basically as a six, and he's an eight. He's not a six. he wants space to step around a tackle, so he can have that extra split-second to find the difficult pass. But that's not what an anchor does, so it's possible misusing him wasn't helping.
Franklin has the physical tools and is getting better and better going forward. But his defending is pretty fucking terrible. As long as the guy is right in front of him, he's fine. He can mark off well, step in and get a foot on the ball. But if the man is lateral or quickler than him, he's beaten on the turn so easily, he just can't be a regular starter. We'd get killed down that side.
Late game, until he improves his marking? That makes more sense. At least then, any wingers he faces will be a step slower for having played a half already.
I suspect Kosi Thompson will get bought in Sweden, but if not, I still think he has a bright future. If anyone could be repurposed as a decent six, it's him. He's very quick, he's aggressive, he's strong. He can win challenges and make an exit pass. Again, he's better with the man and ball ahead of him, but that's most anchors, I think.
Jakheel, I don't know what to think. He's always seemed really humble in interviews but he sure didn't play like it this year. He played like he was trying to force an impression, made terrible decisions, and couldn't consistently pull off even basic back-post crosses.
He obviously has excellent, next-level athleticism and ball control, and his first step is really deceptively quick. But he's not progressing in read or consistency of play, and his intensity is questionable. He'd probably be better starting at TFC II next year, for humility's sake, to find some consistency and early productivity.
I wonder if we'll keep Luke Singh, coming back from the CPL? Has anyone watched him there enough to know if he's improved. He's 23 now, I think, and have to figure it's sort of now or never to make at least a depth offering.
Totally makes sense. We wanted the spoon so we added more dysfunction to an already dysfunctional team. Achievement unlocked.
Posting Permissions
