Match Day 2 - TFC @ Atlanta - Saturday March 4 7:39 pm - you'd rather love and lost

[ag futbol]

My complaint lately about sports is that we have all fallen for statistics hook, line, and sinker. We love data points as humans because they feel objective and fill the void of what otherwise feels like subjective interpretation of events.

But what usually gets left unsaid is that most models that attempt to measure really dynamic activity (like a football match) have a lot of gaps and can’t explain everything. The people who create these models and use them to the best of their ability know the limitations well but to the public it’s too nuanced a point, so they end up thinking about the numbers in black and white terms.

I think it's fair to still use our eyeballs to determine what's happening in a match. It doesn't mean we're right in our interpretation but it is to say statistics aren't bulletproof.

[jloome]

My complaint lately about sports is that we have all fallen for statistics hook, line, and sinker. We love data points as humans because they feel objective and fill the void of what otherwise feels like subjective interpretation of events.

But what usually gets left unsaid is that most models that attempt to measure really dynamic activity (like a football match) have a lot of gaps and can’t explain everything. The people who create these models and use them to the best of their ability know the limitations well but to the public it’s too nuanced a point, so they end up thinking about the numbers in black and white terms.

I think it's fair to still use our eyeballs to determine what's happening in a match. It doesn't mean we're right in our interpretation but it is to say statistics aren't bulletproof.

I don't argue that; stats also leave out important considerations, like WHEN someone turned over the ball.

But equally, some stats are just hard numbers, not extrapolations. A guy gets five tackles in a game from midfield, he's having a decent defensive game, generally, if he's also not giving the ball away en masse.

JosephNdo, I don't disagree to some extent. They should have had at least two, to my way of thinking, as Rosted blew his cover that allowed the point blank header that Johnson parried.

But... that's why we signed Johnson.

On the whole, Bradley's strategy worked. We were a twice-deflected shot from three points and we got a point on the road, in a tough place to play, on a shit surface, against Almada, one of the league's best players.

But I'll certainly agree that once we went up, bunkering further and not adjusting tactically was a mistake. The second half was far more perilous than it needed to be.

If we played like that every week would I be happy? Of course not. It was damage limitation. But there's a reason that multiple people who rate football games every week gave most of our players good ratings. The only players they comprehensively failed were Diomande and Akinola. (Personally, Petretta had some real problems with being outmuscled, even though he seems a genuinely decent wingback.)

[ensco]

^I agree with a lot of this.

I mostly agree with jloome, or at least see his POV, but hey... he can't be perfect! ;-)

[jloome]

^I agree with a lot of this.

I mostly agree with jloome, or at least see his POV, but hey... he can't be perfect! ;-)

Cheers dude. I'm most certainly not that.

I didn't enjoy watching us play like little bitches, frankly, but I got what he was trying for.

It was actually weirdly ambitious, as we were playing an entirely different offensive and defensivset. On offense, we switched into a 4-2-3-1, which a lot of us wanted to see, with Servania on the right and Bernie in the hole. They seemed to have trouble sticking to it, as Servania stayed too low -- he's not used to pinching up underneath the striker and Bernie ended up drifting right to make up for his absence.

But I like Bernie in the hole; very, very dangerous, as his technique is just perfect. That shot was absolutely unstoppable, very hard, very low.

Then on defense, we switched into a flat, narrow 4-4-2, with Osorio and Servania flanking Kaye and Bradley, and Bernie joining the striker for high pressure.

This caused serious cohesion issues but was a practical way of limiting Almada's chances and movement, which was the entire point. When he went inside he was always blocked or doubled up.

If Giakoumakis had come in earlier, it might have been disastrous, as Atlanta might have been more patient about crossing to him, rather than bombing shots from 35 yards. When they began pinging in crosses and switches later in the game, they were much more dangerous. He's very good in the air.

[ensco]

I just watched the extended highlights of the Columbus v DCU game.

Zelarayan and Cucho gave DC fits, they should have had 4 or 5 goals between them. DC couldn’t handle them at all, and a lot of what they do is in build up (Cucho was playing wide, Zelarayan is a 10).

Whatever it is that is causing our problems in allowing large numbers of quality chances .. we had better figure it out by Saturday.

[jloome]

I just watched the extended highlights of the Columbus v DCU game.

Zelarayan and Cucho gave DC fits, they should have had 4 or 5 goals between them. DC couldn’t handle them at all, and a lot of what they do is in build up (Cucho was playing wide, Zelarayan is a 10).

Whatever it is that is causing our problems in allowing large numbers of quality chances .. we had better figure it out by Saturday.

Yeah, they pulled them to pieces. I mean, ideally the two Italians would form this sort of partnership even if the striker wasn't scoring.

Atlanta moved the ball really well, I thought, really well drilled and cohesive. We were bunkering, for the most part. When they realized in the second half that we were ceding the wings, they started crossing from the touchline and switching wingers when there was nothing going in the box yet, and basically ignored the top of the box. In the first half, we lined up there and prevented shots from dangerous distances, mostly. A couple got in on Johnson but they were from 35 yards.

Pineda was saying they had 15 shots from outside the box a week earlier and he was happy that once they adjusted against us, it was only six.

Our defending was generally very good, I thought. The reason we were hemmed in and they had so many chances is we couldn't beat their press with our frontline or hold onto the ball in their end.

Our offensive possession was pretty disastrous.

[los sonadores]

For what it’s worth (worked all night and have seen only highlights and your comments), BB must trust his eleven because I don’t think he made any such major adjustments last season. Maybe be did at times and his players weren’t capable of following through but not “tous court” like this.

At least we have a defence and midfield who can more or less do this despite the back 5 not having played together. And sometimes, away at a tough park (we’ve never won away there during the regular season, our one win there was in 2019 in the playoffs) when your DP best or almost best winger in the league is missing, it makes sense to me. Especially when Bradley seemed on the perversely inflexible side last season. We really should have gotten at least a draw in DC but I don’t think too many were realistically expecting a win in Atlanta.

[jloome]

For what it’s worth (worked all night and have seen only highlights and your comments), BB must trust his eleven because I don’t think he made any such major adjustments last season. Maybe be did at times and his players weren’t capable of following through but not “tous court” like this.

At least we have a defence and midfield who can more or less do this despite the back 5 not having played together. And sometimes, away at a tough park (we’ve never won away there during the regular season, our one win there was in 2019 in the playoffs) when your DP best or almost best winger in the league is missing, it makes sense to me. Especially when Bradley seemed on the perversely inflexible side last season. We really should have gotten at least a draw in DC but I don’t think too many were realistically expecting a win in Atlanta.

I can only conclude he looked at what we were continuing to do from last season and thought either it wasn't working, or "it's barely working, and it's not going to at all without Insigne."

I suspect Bernadeschi must be a little frustrated. We need to at the least give him a decent striker to work with, who's agile enough that if they try to crowd him on the hold up can just flick it behind the defender and beat him on the turn. A Cucho/Ruidiaz/Josef type, basically, fast and clinical.

[ag futbol]

I don't argue that; stats also leave out important considerations, like WHEN someone turned over the ball.

But equally, some stats are just hard numbers, not extrapolations. A guy gets five tackles in a game from midfield, he's having a decent defensive game, generally, if he's also not giving the ball away en masse.

JosephNdo, I don't disagree to some extent. They should have had at least two, to my way of thinking, as Rosted blew his cover that allowed the point blank header that Johnson parried.

But... that's why we signed Johnson.

On the whole, Bradley's strategy worked. We were a twice-deflected shot from three points and we got a point on the road, in a tough place to play, on a shit surface, against Almada, one of the league's best players.

But I'll certainly agree that once we went up, bunkering further and not adjusting tactically was a mistake. The second half was far more perilous than it needed to be.

If we played like that every week would I be happy? Of course not. It was damage limitation. But there's a reason that multiple people who rate football games every week gave most of our players good ratings. The only players they comprehensively failed were Diomande and Akinola. (Personally, Petretta had some real problems with being outmuscled, even though he seems a genuinely decent wingback.)

I can’t argue with much of that. Cheers!

[los sonadores]

I can only conclude he looked at what we were continuing to do from last season and thought either it wasn't working, or "it's barely working, and it's not going to at all without Insigne."

I suspect Bernadeschi must be a little frustrated. We need to at the least give him a decent striker to work with, who's agile enough that if they try to crowd him on the hold up can just flick it behind the defender and beat him on the turn. A Cucho/Ruidiaz/Josef type, basically, fast and clinical.

A decent striker is a must here or it might be a long season!

[Slick]

https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/mls-s...ST-421428.html

Thanks for your help

I finally figured it out. Anytime I was clicking to watch the game, it was showing me the 7 min recap. I had to press and hold to show the 2nd version, which was the full game. Not very intuitive the way they have it. But I got it eventually.

I also don't like that they show the final score in the played matches. Ruins the suspense if you want to watch the game at a later time. I wish there's a way to hide the final score

[SirBobSaget]

Thanks for your help

I finally figured it out. Anytime I was clicking to watch the game, it was showing me the 7 min recap. I had to press and hold to show the 2nd version, which was the full game. Not very intuitive the way they have it. But I got it eventually.

I also don't like that they show the final score in the played matches. Ruins the suspense if you want to watch the game at a later time. I wish there's a way to hide the final score

In the link you quoted there’s a section called Removing Spoilers that explains how to remove scores, they really should have defaulted to have these off. I imagine 99% of users would not want scores and if they do it’s easy enough to find

[Yohan]

[Kamp Berg]

I was happy to see more effort generally. The midfield and striker are still big question marks. Not much hope for either right now, thankfully the defence was much better.