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  1. #181
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    Even now, down 1 with no time left, Seattle doesn't turn up the pressure. Frei should be trying to get up field to a box full of players, but when they got into Al Ahly's end, they just sent the same three runners into the box.

    Don't see the desire. They played like it was a pre-season friendly, frankly.

    90 seconds and a free kick in their end.... and two defenders stay back while a third takes it, instead of just leaving it for the keeper.

    They just don't want it enough, or understand what that means.

    EDIT: Seattle fans are pissed at Schmetzer; only two subs when they haven't even finished pre-season, and he brings on defensive players, as if playing for the tie.
    Last edited by jloome; 02-04-2023 at 01:59 PM.

  2. #182
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    That was the Seattle we lost to on penalties in 2016, when they didn't have a single shot on next during the game and then lucked it in penalties.

    They had 2/3 of the offensive play until about minute 60, then looked like they were playing for a tie.

  3. #183
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    Gotta hand it to them - Seattle invented MLS teams not taking their CWC opponent seriously, doing a half arsed job, not using subs properly & then losing on a deflected goal.........well done.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Schadenfrude for the 2019 deflection in the MLS Cup final....
    .
    So true.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  5. #185
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    Huh? Ok. Accurate? Seems Apple is already punting content to the sidelines.

    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 02-05-2023 at 05:36 AM.

  6. #186
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    Let's see how/where this goes. An MLS/Apple canary in the coal mine indicator...


  7. #187
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    Forbes Valuation... TFC at 6th position with value @ 690M. DC United at 5th with a value at 700M and the have four historical MLS Cups. LAFC who have just won the Cup are first at 1B. MLS Club Average Valuation rose 85% from the magazine's last published numbers of 2019. And that is through two seasons of Covid challenges. Now consider the organic build-up towards the upcoming NA-WC26. If just the same average pace of 85% is maintained then in 4 years MLSE have a TFC franchise worth over 1.275B! If we win the shield and/or cup in the meantime, then that estimate will surely be accelerated and surpassed. Apple lookin' to be gravy in the short term.

    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 02-05-2023 at 05:35 AM.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Huh? Ok. Accurate? Seems Apple is already punting content to the sidelines.

    From my understanding, preseason content is not in Apple's contract and is solely available at the discretion of the teams & the facility where the games take place.

    As the venues being used are not necessarily set up for TV (we've seen this before) & some teams don't want trialists known....

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Forbes Valuation... TFC at 6th position with value @ 690M. DC United at 5th with a value at 700M and the have four historical MLS Cups. LAFC who have just won the Cup are first at 1B. MLS Club Average Valuation rose 85% from the magazine's last published numbers of 2019. And that is through two seasons of Covid challenges. Now consider the organic build-up towards the upcoming NA-WC26. If just the same average pace of 85% is maintained then in 4 years MLSE have a TFC franchise worth over 1.275B! If we win the shield and/or cup in the meantime, then that estimate will surely be accelerated and surpassed. Apple lookin' to be gravy in the short term.

    Any Forbes links to the evaluation of premier or serie a clubs to see where we rank to the lower end teams?

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    From my understanding, preseason content is not in Apple's contract and is solely available at the discretion of the teams & the facility where the games take place.

    As the venues being used are not necessarily set up for TV (we've seen this before) & some teams don't want trialists known....
    They haven't regularly broadcast these games since Charleston Battery's tournament back a decade ago. It's always been the odd one, usually only streaming from one of the clubs.

    Along with triallists, they also regularly abandon regular time and roster rules. For instance, Vancouver's "training tournament" in Spain featured on some days one 45 min game featuring the starters followed by 90 min featuring subs, invites and youth players.
    Last edited by jloome; 02-05-2023 at 11:52 AM.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Let's see how/where this goes. An MLS/Apple canary in the coal mine indicator...

    I'm guessing we don't see any more "this substitute is brought to you by OFF tick and mosquito repellent" lol

  12. #192
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    Huge grain of salt about those Forbes valuations, they are at least partially overinflated because of MLS expansion fees increasing over the years.

    MLS is a gate driven league and the TV viewership numbers as still abysmal. While the Apple deal is potentially game changing, the $2.5B over ten years is still not a lot in the grand scheme of things(works out to roughly $8M per team annually).
    Last edited by Richard; 02-05-2023 at 12:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Huge grain of salt about those Forbes valuations, they are at least partially overinflated because of MLS expansion fees increasing over the years.

    MLS is a gate driven league and the TV viewership numbers as still abysmal. While the Apple deal is potentially game changing, the $2.5B over ten years is still not a lot in the grand scheme of things(works out to roughly $8M per team annually).
    My valuations are spot on, I'll have you know.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Huge grain of salt about those Forbes valuations, they are at least partially overinflated because of MLS expansion fees increasing over the years.

    MLS is a gate driven league and the TV viewership numbers as still abysmal. While the Apple deal is potentially game changing, the $2.5B over ten years is still not a lot in the grand scheme of things(works out to roughly $8M per team annually).
    I don't know their source, but the BBC was discussing this on one of its radio shows the other day, and it's allegedly a hard number, based on revenue. They use a seven-times gross up factor to determine an overall value, based on year to year revenue.

    So TFC's suggests they took in $99-million.

    Now, having said that, they also managed to mix up revenue and profit several times in the same conversation, thus my leeriness over a lack of stated source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    My valuations are spot on, I'll have you know.
    The menu prices at the Tasty Treat by the Canso Causeway don't count.
    (Admittedly, you may have to be of a certain pedigree to appreciate this. That, and you had to watch a lot of ATV in the afternoons.)

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I don't know their source, but the BBC was discussing this on one of its radio shows the other day, and it's allegedly a hard number, based on revenue. They use a seven-times gross up factor to determine an overall value, based on year to year revenue.

    So TFC's suggests they took in $99-million.

    Now, having said that, they also managed to mix up revenue and profit several times in the same conversation, thus my leeriness over a lack of stated source.
    Impossible.

    - Gate potential is 20 games x 30000 seats x $75 ticket price. Let's generously say they got 80%. That's CAD 36M, so USD 27M.
    - TV is less than $10M a year per team in the Apple deal. There are expenses and some revenue share opportunities. Let's call it USD$10M
    - BMO sponsorship is $4M
    - Jerseys etc are not nearly as much as people think. The base sponsorship deal from adidas is USD$100M a year for the league, or USD$4M a year per team.
    - TFC probably gets an additional USD$1-2M for shirt sales for the Italians (that business is nowhere near as lucrative as people think, royalties per jersey sold are small)

    Food is something, I dunno what, a couple of million.

    I can't get to even $50M....
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Impossible.

    - Gate potential is 20 games x 30000 seats x $75 ticket price. Let's generously say they got 80%. That's CAD 36M, so USD 27M.
    - TV is less than $10M a year per team in the Apple deal. There are expenses and some revenue share opportunities. Let's call it USD$10M
    - BMO sponsorship is $4M
    - Jerseys etc are not nearly as much as people think. The base sponsorship deal from adidas is USD$100M a year for the league, or USD$4M a year per team.
    - TFC probably gets an additional USD$1-2M for shirt sales for the Italians (that business is nowhere near as lucrative as people think, royalties per jersey sold are small)

    Food is something, I dunno what, a couple of million.

    I can't get to even $50M....
    Yeah, seemed high to me, too, thus my reticence. Unless there's a lot of background sponsorship and broadcast revenue we're not being told about. But you'd assume enough of these teams have public companies as investors that it would be out in the ecosystem.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    My valuations are spot on, I'll have you know.
    Alright, that's enough, we all know your a twitter presence on MLS, as well as astute at financial analytics and publishing. Just cause you're from renowned and influential lineage, you don't have to show boat.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    From my understanding, preseason content is not in Apple's contract and is solely available at the discretion of the teams & the facility where the games take place. As the venues being used are not necessarily set up for TV (we've seen this before) & some teams don't want trialists known....
    Suppose. I then do not understand at all the point by LAG's initial effort to make these 'friendlies' more of an event by branding them 'The CVI'. Subsequent to all the implied and expected inevitable and related media communiques or reporting on the tourno; including broadcasting them in some manner. Which logically could/should have been Apple.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 02-05-2023 at 04:34 PM.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Yeah, seemed high to me, too, thus my reticence. Unless there's a lot of background sponsorship and broadcast revenue we're not being told about. But you'd assume enough of these teams have public companies as investors that it would be out in the ecosystem.
    Further to what both yourself and Ensco have said, these valuations usually factor in real estate, which is how teams like DC United get so far up the list. Frankly this also makes me wonder about the LAG valuation too, although admittedly I’m not certain whether AEG owns that venue or not - could swear that the university owns it but I could be wrong. In any event, that is obviously not the case with TFC which makes the valuation worthy of an eyebrow raise.

    Perhaps given all of the investment involved in expanding BMO, they are treating it as MLSE owned for the purposes of their valuation?

    Who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick.mastro View Post
    Any Forbes links to the evaluation of premier or serie a clubs to see where we rank to the lower end teams?
    Suspect there is, just haven't found any yet. Instead, FWIW, with for a base of reference, and with a 'from wikipedia' caveat, the following... paraphrased, edited, cut and pasted... 'In July 2003, Roman Abramovich, completed a £140 Million or 168M USD takeover of Chelsea... At the time of the Abramovich takeover, the club also had debts of around £100 Million or 120M USD... Chelsea did not turn a profit in the first nine years of Abramovich's ownership and made record losses... Chelsea have been described as a global brand... In 2016 Forbesmagazine ranked Chelsea the seventh most valuable football club in the world at £1.15 Billion or $1.385B USD. On 7 May 2022, the club finally confirmed that "terms have been agreed" for a new ownership group led by American Todd Boehly and Clearlake Capital... Chelsea sold for circa £4.25 Billion or $5.11B USD with one reported debt of circa £800M or 957M USD. Therefore, one of the best clubs in, arguably for some time, the best league in the world, in about twenty years went from a valuation of £40M or 48M USD to one of £3.445B or 4.15B USD... < Edit... If my calculation is correct that would 'ballpark' reflect, within a reasonable parameter, an 85 times or 8500% growth/return? In comparison, the NA- MLS- TFC franchise was acquired for 10M USD in 2005 and has a current Forbes Valuation of 690M USD. Therefore, in approximately 19 years, about a 69 times or 6900% growth/return?>

    BTW, Bournemouth, currently in and fighting EPL relegation, was recently bought by American Bill Foley's Consortium reportedly for circa £120M or 145M USD.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 02-06-2023 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Calculation Error

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    I did find the top Serie A teams (sorry if this is incorrect)

    Juventus 2.4 Billion
    Milan 1.2 Billion
    Inter 1 Billion
    Roma 545 mil
    Napoli 471 mil

    I would assume with MLS teams being worth more than Roma and Napoli that alot of the price tag has to do with future projections of what MLS teams will be making in the future with its predicted upwards growth

  23. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Impossible.

    - Gate potential is 20 games x 30000 seats x $75 ticket price. Let's generously say they got 80%. That's CAD 36M, so USD 27M.
    - TV is less than $10M a year per team in the Apple deal. There are expenses and some revenue share opportunities. Let's call it USD$10M
    - BMO sponsorship is $4M
    - Jerseys etc are not nearly as much as people think. The base sponsorship deal from adidas is USD$100M a year for the league, or USD$4M a year per team.
    - TFC probably gets an additional USD$1-2M for shirt sales for the Italians (that business is nowhere near as lucrative as people think, royalties per jersey sold are small)

    Food is something, I dunno what, a couple of million.

    I can't get to even $50M....
    What is each team's cut of expansion fees? That's probably half of most team's revenue right there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    What is each team's cut of expansion fees? That's probably half of most team's revenue right there.
    Not that significant. St Louis paid $200M. So that's $6M a team. I would not "annualize" that. They can do maybe 3 more of those, so would simply add $20M to the number you get otherwise.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  25. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Not that significant. St Louis paid $200M. So that's $6M a team. I would not "annualize" that. They can do maybe 3 more of those, so would simply add $20M to the number you get otherwise.
    So about half of revenues. Lol.

    My comment was more a commentary on the league's addiction to expansion fees.

  26. #206
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    Hold onto your hats kids, Jesse Marsh was fired by Leeds meaning… Chris Armas is the interim caretaker manager for the next few games against Manchester United.

  27. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Hold onto your hats kids, Jesse Marsh was fired by Leeds meaning… Chris Armas is the interim caretaker manager for the next few games against Manchester United.
    They fired a bunch of the support staff and assistants along with Marsch except.....you guessed it.....not Chris Armas.

  28. #208
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    mad thing is, Armas could be interim boss in Leeds v Man Utd match on Wed.

  29. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by burlington Red View Post
    mad thing is, Armas could be interim boss in Leeds v Man Utd match on Wed.
    Guy is, to quote Natasha Lyonne in Russian Doll, a cockaroach.

  30. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    They fired a bunch of the support staff and assistants along with Marsch except.....you guessed it.....not Chris Armas.
    He’s just a straight shooter with upper management potential written all over him, lol

 

 

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