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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I was waiting for you to show up here- I know nobody who watches lower leagues like you do.

    I accept your well argued point but, having thought a bit about it, the problem may be that soccer is a weak link sport. You are only as good as your worst player. (in contrast to basketball - you are only as good as your best player)

    Lower league clubs have great balance, nobody drives a Lambourghini. You can implement a team concept more readily. Lower risk of locker room mayhem.
    Oh, very true. One of the reasons, as someone pointed out, that St. Louis FC is doing so well is that they all played together in MLS Next Pro last season as a 'dry run'. The change to a higher level hasn't been enough to shake the cohesiveness they gained from playing weaker teams for an entire year.

    MLS teams can go from very, very good to fucking abysmal quite quickly. I mean, look at us with Soteldo last year.

    It's probably why Vancouver has been prone to being picked off by CPL teams. On balance they have far less talent, but they come in confident and with a cohesive structure, at least. Even when we beat the pants off York last year, they didn't look poorly coached or like shit. They just didn't have the speed or skill to break us down, really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post

    MLS teams can go from very, very good to fucking abysmal quite quickly. I mean, look at us with Soteldo last year.

    ...
    I know the bad seems to always just flow together but Soteldo was 2 years ago.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I know the bad seems to always just flow together but Soteldo was 2 years ago.
    Jesus H. We really need a good year before I just turn into an inky black spot of misery on the carpet.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Oh, very true. One of the reasons, as someone pointed out, that St. Louis FC is doing so well is that they all played together in MLS Next Pro last season as a 'dry run'. The change to a higher level hasn't been enough to shake the cohesiveness they gained from playing weaker teams for an entire year.

    MLS teams can go from very, very good to fucking abysmal quite quickly. I mean, look at us with Soteldo last year.

    It's probably why Vancouver has been prone to being picked off by CPL teams. On balance they have far less talent, but they come in confident and with a cohesive structure, at least. Even when we beat the pants off York last year, they didn't look poorly coached or like shit. They just didn't have the speed or skill to break us down, really.
    It should also be pointed out that we’ve had by far the highest turnover in the league over the last 14 months. And half our starters (plus more if we’re adding in teens or if Gutierrez get an immediate start) haven’t played together. The preseason, short to begin with, was shorter with the heavy rains, And some guys arrived partway through. Doesn’t matter how experienced the players are (and two starters have not played before in this crazy league plus two who have only half a season of experience after coming from something like another planet, footballwise). This will take some time. Even more so with what our manager seems to be wanting.

    Also, last season was mostly lost to detonating the roster and injuries. Not saying I condone it but it was shit and not really brilliant preparation for this season.
    Last edited by los sonadores; 03-15-2023 at 06:06 PM.

  5. #485
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    Re-affirmation... by someone else from a whole footballin' knowledge high-school cycle graduating class before BB... that time is all you need...





    So... ten matches before you break glass and smash the big red panic button?

  6. #486
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    I wish the MLS did what the PLSQ (the Quebec version of League1 Ontario) did last season.

    The league regular season was the league title featuring all 12 teams. Then they invited the top 4 teams to participate in the league cup. Basically the regular season title (Supporters Shield) is still the top title. Then the used the League Cup as an added incentive to keep teams working to win a secondary title (basically like playoffs, but it's not the recognized main title).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_P...3%A9bec_season
    Last edited by rydermike; 03-16-2023 at 06:41 AM.

  7. #487
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    Roy Kent ... part of The Bradley's inner circle?

    https://www.tfcrepublic.ca/tfc-mls-paul-stalteri-michael-bob-bradley/
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 03-16-2023 at 10:00 AM.

  8. #488
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  9. #489
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    I am starting to wonder, if some sort of backroom deal was made between factions of League HO, Ownership, and Players? All having the expectation of injury impacts and a forethought to mitigate the congested season of matches, against a new/added tourney competition, against standard international breaks and competitions, with a new playoff format that includes increased participation spots?
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 03-17-2023 at 11:22 AM.

  10. #490
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    The premier league has not been kind to former MLS managers this season so far: Viera, Lampard and Marsch all gonzo alonzo.

    Can't say any of those is a major surprise, but Viera did pretty well at NYC, other than us drubbing them in the playoffs.

  11. #491
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    If BB doesn't succeed.... we have our currently available target.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    If BB doesn't succeed.... we have our currently available target.
    Tata Martino would probably say no, but I'd take him over all comers.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    If BB doesn't succeed.... we have our currently available target.
    I like him but also potentially strikes me as on the plane back to Europe as soon as a better gig comes up. Maybe that’s the price of having someone competent though?

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I like him but also potentially strikes me as on the plane back to Europe as soon as a better gig comes up. Maybe that’s the price of having someone competent though?
    I think it will be a while before any decent level Euro team would take a chance on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think it will be a while before any decent level Euro team would take a chance on him.
    That bad in the last stint?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    That bad in the last stint?
    Two bad ones in a row now.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Two bad ones in a row now.
    Fair enough. Oddly that doesn’t really scare me at all. Europe and MLS are just different.

    Wonder if Montreal calls if Losada doesn’t settle soon (although in fairness, the team needs to rebuild)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Fair enough. Oddly that doesn’t really scare me at all. Europe and MLS are just different.

    Wonder if Montreal calls if Losada doesn’t settle soon (although in fairness, the team needs to rebuild)
    Oh Losada is a guaranteed fail. Only thing he will accomplish there is reducing the team's BMI.

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    I don’t think Vieira did that badly. Finished mid-table last year. Had the worst fixtures in the EPL this year up to now and no investment. They have a good run coming that will make the new manager look brilliant.

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    Last edited by rydermike; 03-18-2023 at 07:13 AM. Reason: resize image. posted from mobile originally, didn't realize how big it was

  21. #501
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    WTF? Lord, have mercy! Preach. From the 'European Altidore' ...

    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 03-18-2023 at 03:25 AM.

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    That Lukaku bit was shot in 2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    That Lukaku bit was shot in 2019
    Thanks Colin! . Tried the quick check. Unfortunately, 'you' only confirmed so in the tweets read replies 30 minutes after I previously last edited. Been awhile, but seems I got burned in a direct reference by this source again. Wow, Lukaku with some youthful forethought; just 24 in the clip?!
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 03-18-2023 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Clarification

  24. #504
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    MLS all-stars will face Arsenal this year at the all-star game, in a return to the foreign clubs model.

  25. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I respect your passionate support for grassroots football.

    I disagree entirely with this.

    We are a major world economic power with 35M citizens. Nations half our population and a fraction of our spending power support much better professional leagues, and so could we.

    The biggest thing holding back Canada from competing with things that are American or British is that we think ourselves as small and sparse, rather than large and powerful.

    As far back as the NASL, teams in Edmonton, Toronto and Vancouver were routinely drawing 10,000-plus crowds, because back then, there was no competition from cable tv sport and Euro soccer. So what fan base there was that existed, turned out.

    Now, we have a sophisticated soccer audience. I said prior to FC Edmonton being formed that if it followed the route it wanted to take --as inexpensively and grassroots as possible -- it would fail, because this city once won five Stanley Cups in a row and its residents do not consider themselves minor league, or spending money on minor-league offerings.

    I also said two years prior to TFC's first game that it would be a massive success, even as others were pointing out how so many Canadian leagues had failed.

    All it took was the most basic level of proper professionalism: a football stadium, enough experienced foreign players to give it credibility, enough up and coming locals to make it look promising.

    What people will NEVER financially support to a self-sustaining level here is bottom-tier professionalism. They barely tolerate the CFL and it has more than a century of tradition.

    A Canadian league could ABSOLUTELY compete with MLS, for TV viewers, for players. We would probably never get to quite that level, but there's no reason we shouldn't get to that third tier, similar to Greece, Switzerland, Denmark etc.

    But it won't happen unless they properly capitalize; they need a big-money major backer like Adidas or Nike, they need a capital buy-in plan to help build facilities (and create jobs! This was almost a Stephen Harper policy once, and came with a last bill review for the session from being on the order paper) and they need to study and learn from smaller community-based team models that nevertheless make enough money to support professionalism.

    If they took that approach, it would probably take several years to put together and it would dramatically change it from a 'grassroots' approach to a professional one. But that's what is really needed. We could be at League Two/League One level in less than a decade, better than USL (although frankly, USL is improving so quickly, it's basically a proper third division now, with foreign players on every roster, dev loans etc).

    A lot of the difficult in this occurring is that business people here are absolutely accustomed to traditional notions of pro sports only existing in the biggest cities. But as Canadian Junior Hockey and AHL hockey have shown, you can keep interest high enough to make a profit and keep operating in smaller places.

    I'd like to see a proper Canadian league, but also use the popularity of football as a low-cost sport to push for a national stadium plan. I'd like to see Lloydminster and Sherbrook trying to get promoted to the top division. If you can support professional football in Luton, in Derby, in Blackpool, you can support it in London, and Moncton, and Red Deer.

    But it only works if it's entertaining, fast and professionally presented from day one. And that takes a MASSIVE financial investment and planning, largely meaning a commitment for most of it to be foreign-owned and funded by billionaires and large corporate sponsors, or even nation-states.
    I love the thought that went into this and agree with this model being more likely.

    But I can't get the 5 Stanley Cups in a row out of head.

    I think you mean the other orange team in the NHL. The one with the last true dynasty
    But hey, 5 Grey Cups in a row had never been done before or since so...

    Srsly jks aside, great post man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I love the thought that went into this and agree with this model being more likely.

    But I can't get the 5 Stanley Cups in a row out of head.

    I think you mean the other orange team in the NHL. The one with the last true dynasty
    But hey, 5 Grey Cups in a row had never been done before or since so...

    Srsly jks aside, great post man.
    LOL, good catch. As I watch neither, I'd sort of conflated them in my head.

    I absolutely KNOW this nation could support a proper, tier 1 pro league. Canada is soccer mad. I didn't move here until my teens from England, but it was evident the second I got here that as many kids were playing it here as there. There were two sports that everyone played at some point: hockey and soccer.

    I seriously believe that if you put decent boutique-sized stadiums -- the sort of 3,500 - 6,000 range -- in places like Red Deer and Saint John and Kelowna, you would fill them every game, and a proper professional pyramid could be supported. Plus, every community in this country, as far as I can tell, is short soccer fields.

    It's sort of a win-win, given that every pro team also needs a practice field, and that field or fields can see community use at night. It also gives smaller communities a proper show venue; so many smaller artists in music and comedy won't go to anywhere below the top-five cities, because they have no venues over 500-1,000 seats, typically.

  27. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    LOL, good catch. As I watch neither, I'd sort of conflated them in my head.

    I absolutely KNOW this nation could support a proper, tier 1 pro league. Canada is soccer mad. I didn't move here until my teens from England, but it was evident the second I got here that as many kids were playing it here as there. There were two sports that everyone played at some point: hockey and soccer.

    I seriously believe that if you put decent boutique-sized stadiums -- the sort of 3,500 - 6,000 range -- in places like Red Deer and Saint John and Kelowna, you would fill them every game, and a proper professional pyramid could be supported. Plus, every community in this country, as far as I can tell, is short soccer fields.

    It's sort of a win-win, given that every pro team also needs a practice field, and that field or fields can see community use at night. It also gives smaller communities a proper show venue; so many smaller artists in music and comedy won't go to anywhere below the top-five cities, because they have no venues over 500-1,000 seats, typically.
    Preach. I love those size stadiums, right-sized for the club and its supporters but they would have to be in smaller markets as you say so as they aren't a million miles outta town.

    I wish NA wasn't so top-down with building things but I guess that's what we get. Gotta build the shiny for the casual first-time hopeful-converts.

  28. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    LOL, good catch. As I watch neither, I'd sort of conflated them in my head.

    I absolutely KNOW this nation could support a proper, tier 1 pro league. Canada is soccer mad. I didn't move here until my teens from England, but it was evident the second I got here that as many kids were playing it here as there. There were two sports that everyone played at some point: hockey and soccer.

    I seriously believe that if you put decent boutique-sized stadiums -- the sort of 3,500 - 6,000 range -- in places like Red Deer and Saint John and Kelowna, you would fill them every game, and a proper professional pyramid could be supported. Plus, every community in this country, as far as I can tell, is short soccer fields.

    It's sort of a win-win, given that every pro team also needs a practice field, and that field or fields can see community use at night. It also gives smaller communities a proper show venue; so many smaller artists in music and comedy won't go to anywhere below the top-five cities, because they have no venues over 500-1,000 seats, typically.
    I am in Ajax but I always thought if there was any pro level soccer (men or women) and they played locally I would go in a heartbeat. I mean east end (Durham) when I say local and not necessarily Ajax. It would be great to have something else to support other than my regular travel down to the Lakeshore for the Reds. I think the same could be said for other suburb areas in bigger cities as well as the smaller cities like you mention and it would be great. But it all comes down to finances I guess to run it and maybe that might be the harder sell for the communities and politicians. I have already heard of political squabbling over financial support for local fields and soccer bubbles which costs even less. eg. A while back our indoor soccer funding was redirected to adding a bus lane on a main street instead. We still don't have indoor soccer in Ajax and people have to go to neighboring cities.

  29. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    I am in Ajax but I always thought if there was any pro level soccer (men or women) and they played locally I would go in a heartbeat. I mean east end (Durham) when I say local and not necessarily Ajax. It would be great to have something else to support other than my regular travel down to the Lakeshore for the Reds. I think the same could be said for other suburb areas in bigger cities as well as the smaller cities like you mention and it would be great. But it all comes down to finances I guess to run it and maybe that might be the harder sell for the communities and politicians. I have already heard of political squabbling over financial support for local fields and soccer bubbles which costs even less. eg. A while back our indoor soccer funding was redirected to adding a bus lane on a main street instead. We still don't have indoor soccer in Ajax and people have to go to neighboring cities.
    That's the thing; it's never sold as a politically broad package. It's not just about soccer, it's about giving kids enough venues to stay healthy and outdoor active, which massively lowers public health care costs in the long run. Plus in the middle of a recession, we've known since FDR's new deal down south that national construction projects are a big helper in boosting employment, spending and consumer confidence.

    There's something like six million people in the GTA supporting two pro clubs. London, England is a little bigger at about 8 million in the greater area and currently supports 17 (and that's not counting additional lower league clubs that draw sometimes in the thousands). I think Toronto could probably swing a couple more pretty easily if done right.

    EDIT: I could be wrong, but I believe the first league in Canada, started by Steve Stavro and George Gross back in the late Fifties, had two teams in Toronto and two in Montreal. That was it. Here we are sixty-plus years later... with two teams in Toronto, and one in Montreal. Sure, other places, too. But two vastly populous cities can only manage one major club and one tier three club? Please.
    Last edited by jloome; 03-20-2023 at 02:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    That's the thing; it's never sold as a politically broad package. It's not just about soccer, it's about giving kids enough venues to stay healthy and outdoor active, which massively lowers public health care costs in the long run. Plus in the middle of a recession, we've known since FDR's new deal down south that national construction projects are a big helper in boosting employment, spending and consumer confidence.

    There's something like six million people in the GTA supporting two pro clubs. London, England is a little bigger at about 8 million in the greater area and currently supports 17 (and that's not counting additional lower league clubs that draw sometimes in the thousands). I think Toronto could probably swing a couple more pretty easily if done right.

    EDIT: I could be wrong, but I believe the first league in Canada, started by Steve Stavro and George Gross back in the late Fifties, had two teams in Toronto and two in Montreal. That was it. Here we are sixty-plus years later... with two teams in Toronto, and one in Montreal. Sure, other places, too. But two vastly populous cities can only manage one major club and one tier three club? Please.
    Agreed. Any North American franchise model seems to come with the idea only LA and NY are allowed 2 teams everyone else is too small. Silly because clearly a lot of markets could support multiple.

 

 

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