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  1. #61
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    Incoming over generalizations



    I like Doyle but a guy can't be in depth about every team - its not possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokecell View Post
    The SKC report lost credibility for me the second they said it was close. Unless I've been totally mislead ever since following MLS, literally every salary rule/mechanism in the league was designed to prevent these exact types of deals. There is no chance that SKC were able to offer anything in the ballpark of the Saudis when considering pure salary and no sponsorships etc.
    So it was £175 million a year/about $210 million American. Sporting KC was “close” to that? That’s a laugh. Can’t believe they printed that article. It was cute that they we’re going to bring in Patrick Mahomes to “seal the deal.” Would that name mean anything at all to Ronaldo? I doubt it. He’s no Drake!
    Last edited by Canary10; 01-03-2023 at 08:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    I think for the right player (Not Ronaldo now, his brand is worth 10% of what it was a year ago. Say maybe Messi now, or if they somehow had a chance at an Mbappe in their prime) MLS could pony up something in the ball park of cash equivalence to what we're seeing Ronaldo get. There's precedence with this, with Beckham getting a huge stake in an MLS franchise comped - that alone could be worth close to what the Saudis are paying Ronaldo right now in real $ value. I think if they could sign Messi right now they'd be willing to give some extraordinary things in return and his net worth may rise by close to what Ronaldos will in Saudi even if it's not in cash.

    What has absolute 0.0% chance of being true is that SKC were ever where he was going. MLS will only going to do that for a giant market team, basically only New York or LA. They need to be somewhere where they can seriously move the needle where the built in audience for stadium and especially now, Apple TV subscribers, is astronomical and there's only really two places that are big enough and Kansas sure as shit isn't one of them.

    What I could believe is SKC kicked some tires to see if they could possibly broker a deal with a goal of getting something for their discovery rights from an NY or LA team, but post Piers Morgan interview/being sacked by his club/being dropped by his country and not to mention the allegations against him? His stock has dropped. No way MLS would come close to what he got. No way at all.

    The only slightly interest thing for future signings is, the Apple TV subscription is available worldwide, right? If so it does open the MLS TV revenue stream into a much larger potential market. One signing doesn't change that, but that *could* be used to justify some pretty big $$ spending at some stage if they think they can get people outside US/Canada watching, especially running summer not against any big European leagues. It's unlikely to generate much in the short term but does add some interesting lines of thought when it comes to the long term economics of the league and perhaps some tolerance for some high risk, high reward long shot moves from a usually conservative league
    I disagree with the speculation that MLS will give Messi or anyone hundreds of millions in franchise value.

    On the Beckham deal. At the time franchise expansion fees were $10M, and they gave hime the option to buy a team for $25M. His salary was $32M for 5 years. The franchise thing was a sweetener, it was not something that was intended to have the kind of value it wound up having, MLS had no idea how bad a deal that deal would turn out to be.

    Even if they did it again, the equivalent today would see them giving Messi or Ronaldo or whomever the option to buy an MLS team for $800M or something.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I am not as irked as some about the absurdity of the Sporting KC / Ronaldo to MLS Story.
    Sure, at a 200M/YR contract, I completely agree it is a ridiculous proposition and consideration.
    That chatter should be positioned in the annals of managerial face-saving doublespeak as 'a stretch goal'.
    Close? Nope. Maybe in a hand grenades and horseshoes sense.
    Hard even for me to fathom this amount for MLS; that calculus is just so astronomical/impossible at this time.
    Yet, at this discussion's core, at a 75M/YR target, not so much.
    I think that number was reasonable and MLS/Franchisee doable.
    Even though 'pushing the envelope' of financial creativity.
    Lolo has recently taught me never to say never and to realize where there is a will, there is a way.
    Would not be the first time MLS has shifted or murked their goalposts on their salary rules and mechanisms.
    Made 'business' sense for me on several levels for a host of association football reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    https://twitter.com/HNS_CFF/status/1...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    Have said it over and over we need to bring Croatians here. Look for more of this in the future from other teams. This will be an Alimiron situation, the kid is betting on himself.

    Petkovic, the striker who scored the tying goal vs brazil, would be a great signing here, has all the tools.
    Petkovic would be a great signing but I doubt that Zagreb would let him go very easily. He is under contract till 2024 and would cost around $8-10 million if you believe transfermarket

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I disagree with the speculation that MLS will give Messi or anyone hundreds of millions in franchise value.

    On the Beckham deal. At the time franchise expansion fees were $10M, and they gave hime the option to buy a team for $25M. His salary was $32M for 5 years. The franchise thing was a sweetener, it was not something that was intended to have the kind of value it wound up having, MLS had no idea how bad a deal that deal would turn out to be.

    Even if they did it again, the equivalent today would see them giving Messi or Ronaldo or whomever the option to buy an MLS team for $800M or something.
    You may be right, and probably are, but I do wonder. Don't forget, they need only give a % of a franchise, not the whole thing, and the sponsorship and image rights opportunities in the US are significantly higher than in Saudi (And these are revenue streams that can keep being realized after retirement, there is significantly more value from being a name in the US vs one in Saudi).

    Mainly I think that IF MLS think they can push Apple TV subs beyond US/Canada don't be surprised if they do some pretty earth shattering things. This Apple TV gamble could be anywhere from a disaster to the thing that turns MLS into a global league (Not this cycle, but eventually), that's how wide the spectrum of outcomes are here. The league may suddenly throw some caution to the wind in a way that would surprise us in order to make it work. We shall see.

    But I think we can all agree there was never any possibility of Ronaldo in an SKC jersey, ever. There was more chance of the Brazilian one signing there today than Cristiano
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 01-03-2023 at 08:58 AM.

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    It made me laugh that the article mentions a few times that if SKC did this again the player would have to make sense for the team and the city. As if Ronaldo checked off all the boxes of good sense.

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    So, Cho's probably a great player - one problem is that he'd basically be the Korean Atomic Ant for us at 154 CM. If we were playing that style, it may not be as big an issue but if I would like a larger striker given we have two Top XI caliber wingers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    So, Cho's probably a great player - one problem is that he'd basically be the Korean Atomic Ant for us at 154 CM. If we were playing that style, it may not be as big an issue but if I would like a larger striker given we have two Top XI caliber wingers.
    Agreed. The issue with this team right now is other teams pack the box with defenders and murder us on the counter. Need a true target in the box to clear space and a faster midfield presence to deal with the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    So, Cho's probably a great player - one problem is that he'd basically be the Korean Atomic Ant for us at 154 CM. If we were playing that style, it may not be as big an issue but if I would like a larger striker given we have two Top XI caliber wingers.
    ??

    Wiki says he is 188cm, 6 foot 2 inches. In person he looked taller. He looked great in the air.

    My question would be, looking at his wiki, that he may not have done enough over time to warrant a big fee, and that Lorenzo and Bernie need (and deserve) someone more proven in the role. We are not a club that could bring a signing like this along slowly.
    Last edited by ensco; 01-03-2023 at 11:26 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ??

    Wiki says he is 188cm, 6 foot 2 inches. In person he looked taller. He looked great in the air.

    My question would be, looking at his wiki, that he may not have done enough over time to warrant a big fee, and that Lorenzo and Bernie need (and deserve) someone more proven in the role. We are not a club that could bring a signing like this along slowly.
    Did I look at the wrong guy? That's my bad tbh

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    LAFC with 5 DPs and 7 or so max TAM players. Basically being allowed to be the Bayern/Man City of MLS.


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    Austin signs 25-year-old Finnish international centre half.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/austi...k-leo-vaisanen

    Seems like the kind of guy we should be trying for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Austin signs 25-year-old Finnish international centre half.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/austi...k-leo-vaisanen

    Seems like the kind of guy we should be trying for.
    he is too young not american enough and not expensive enough for tfc

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Austin signs 25-year-old Finnish international centre half.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/austi...k-leo-vaisanen

    Seems like the kind of guy we should be trying for.
    You need to have a competent scouting staff in place to uncover decent quality foreign players in lower leagues that are willing to come to MLS. TFC doesn't have one.

    If you are just signing big name DP's and existing MLS players who are already known, then why even bother to have a scouting staff?

  16. #76
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    Think we can call the Mattheus Klich to DC rumor solid, given that they said goodbye to him at the end of Leeds' home game versus West Ham.

    Solid player, definitely elite in MLS terms.

  17. #77
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    If anybody knows the exact details of ANY MLS teams' scouting department, please let us all know

    i.e. The assumption Austin has a great big scouting group because they got this guy is....a leap.

    I would have thought LAG's would be great - then I read that Vanney had to create the analytics department there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    You need to have a competent scouting staff in place to uncover decent quality foreign players in lower leagues that are willing to come to MLS. TFC doesn't have one.

    If you are just signing big name DP's and existing MLS players who are already known, then why even bother to have a scouting staff?
    Like Jesus Jimenez?

    You're extrapolating too much here dude. There are tens of thousands of quality football players out there in the world. Toronto can't be on top of every single one of them.

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    The “younger quality European” is an extremely tricky channel of the market, one that we have tried to navigate, and one that we have never succeeded in (Stefanovic, Bostock, Aketxe). It's not easy - LAG blew $6M million on the Cabral transfer, and just gave him away 18 months later.

    But it is one I would expect BB to have tried to play in by now, given his relationships in Scandinavia, France, Egypt…
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    Like Jesus Jimenez?

    You're extrapolating too much here dude. There are tens of thousands of quality football players out there in the world. Toronto can't be on top of every single one of them.
    Jimenez had 1 goal since the end of June and lost his starting job to Akinola in August, who also had a lousy year. Jimenez makes just under a mill in salary. So far this has turned out to be another bad signing.

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    No such thing as a bad two year deal. Good pickup for LAFC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Jimenez had 1 goal since the end of June and lost his starting job to Akinola in August, who also had a lousy year. Jimenez makes just under a mill in salary. So far this has turned out to be another bad signing.
    But at the beginning of the year it looked like he was going to lead the league in scoring. It was still a very good find by the standard you're setting.

    But yes, he's unsettled now. Hopefully they can figure out what to do with him this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    If anybody knows the exact details of ANY MLS teams' scouting department, please let us all know

    i.e. The assumption Austin has a great big scouting group because they got this guy is....a leap.

    I would have thought LAG's would be great - then I read that Vanney had to create the analytics department there.
    The point that I am trying to make is that since the championship contending years TFC has had a terrible track record in signing international players. Is this on scouting or on management? I suspect it ultimately is on both.

    Back in the winning years TFC was able to sign quality internationals on reasonable contacts. Players such as Vazquez, Mavinga, Cheyrou, Hasler and Benezet come to mind, all of whom made notable contributions to the club's success.

    You need to supplement your roster with these types of players to win in MLS. You can't solely rely on DP's, as we witnessed last year. Why we can no longer find these types of players is a mystery to me.

    This in my opinion has been the club's biggest failing since Vanney left. And so far I see no evidence that things have changed in the BB era.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 01-04-2023 at 10:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    The point that I am trying to make is that since the championship contending years TFC has had a terrible track record in signing international players. Is this on scouting or on management? I suspect it ultimately is on both.

    Back in the winning years TFC was able to sign quality internationals on reasonable contacts. Players such as Vazquez, Mavinga, Cheyrou, Hasler and Benezet come to mind, all of whom made notable contributions to the club's success.

    You need to supplement your roster with these types of players to win in MLS. You can't solely rely on DP's, as we witnessed last year. Why we can no longer find these types of players is a mystery to me.

    This in my opinion has been the club's biggest failing since Vanney left. And so far I see no evidence that things have changed in the BB era.

    Fair enough - I think a lot of 2015-2017 was built on connections from Bez & Vanney & TL.

    I just have no clue if ANY MLS team has a good scouting department.

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    The hardest part about scouting for MLS is probably just the uniqueness of roster qualities. Within the same lineup you have world class players (let's call them 5 stars), solid tier two players (let's call them 3 star players) and journeymen/below level players (lets call them one stars). How is one of those 5* players who is used to playing with other 4* and 5* players going to handle teammates so far below the level he's used to (the DP buying in risk), how is that 3* player going to adjust from being a solid player in a 3* league to joining a team with some 5* above his level (ie. a Jimenez type). How are those 1* players going to deal with instead of jumping up to a 2* league, moving to a league that also has some 3-5* players in it (ie. the CPL to MLS guys going from playing with and facing CPL guys to facing Gareth Bale and playing with Insigne).

    The quality disparity is so unique compared to other leagues where talent is more even, it has got to be difficult to really predict. Sorry if that was confusing/didn't make a ton of sense. The idea made sense in my head, but translating it to actual words was a bit complicated
    Last edited by rydermike; 01-04-2023 at 11:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    The hardest part about scouting for MLS is probably just the uniqueness of roster qualities. Within the same lineup you have world class players (let's call them 5 stars), solid tier two players (let's call them 3 star players) and journeymen/below level players (lets call them one stars). How is one of those 5* players who is used to playing with other 4* and 5* players going to handle teammates so far below the level he's used to (the DP buying in risk), how is that 3* player going to adjust from being a solid player in a 3* league to joining a team with some 5* above his level (ie. a Jimenez type). How are those 1* players going to deal with instead of jumping up to a 2* league, moving to a league that also has some 3-5* players in it (ie. the CPL to MLS guys going from playing with and facing CPL guys to facing Gareth Bale and playing with Insigne).

    The quality disparity is so unique compared to other leagues where talent is more even, it has got to be difficult to really predict. Sorry if that was confusing/didn't make a ton of sense. The idea made sense in my head, but translating it to actual words was a bit complicated
    I hear what you are saying, but that is a challenge faced by every MLS club. Other teams in MLS are able to find quality internationals, and we used to be able as well, but not in recent years. Why? Was it the departure of Bez and Vanney? Curtis was a disaster but he is long gone. Maybe the club needs to revamp its entire soccer infrastructure, starting with a separate and fully dedicated sports director and a new scouting staff?
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 01-04-2023 at 11:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    I hear what you are saying, but that is a challenge faced by every MLS club. Other teams in MLS are able to find quality internationals, and we used to be able as well, but not in recent years. Why? Was it the departure of Bez and Vanney? Curtis was a disaster but he is long gone. Maybe the club needs to revamp its entire soccer infrastructure, starting with a separate and fully dedicated sports director and a new scouting staff?
    it is kinda broke.the fact that manning is the prez for 2 teams is a joke

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    Please stay on topic here (non-TFC MLS transfers). As much as we may envy some teams' moves, this isn't a Bill Manning or TFC scouting thread.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    If accurate, this is an interesting development in contrast to the exodus theme recently experienced at CFM.
    Perhaps, the gravitas of their new coach?

    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-05-2023 at 10:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    If accurate, this is an interesting development in contrast to the exodus theme recently experienced at CFM.
    Perhaps, the gravitas of their new coach?

    I think he would have trouble getting anywhere above $1M a season anywhere else. He's a good player but he's not a dominantly good player. He was good at Celtic, he was good at Tottenham, but competently good, not "take the team on my back" good. He had a few moments like that at Montreal.

    If they made him a TAM offer it makes sense.

    I was looking at wages for 30-year-old plus top-level players in Britain and it's easy to forget most are still seen as journeymen and squad players... just good enough to do so at the top level. After the starting 11, salaries go down very quickly for players over 30. If he's not quick enough for the Premier League anymore, then the Championship or SPL are only going to offer probably $5-15,000 a week, which is about half what Montreal will probably pay him.

    So it makes sense financially, I imagine.

    Good player though.

 

 

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