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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    Michael Bradley is not the problem.
    Yea well tell that to Perez
    And midfield of oso and Marky for 7 games that played fluid and pushed the ball up instead of turning and giving it to a goalie who can't make a pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    Michael Bradley is the problem.
    Fixed.

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    Michael Bradley led the league in completed passes, progressive passes and line breaking passes.

    He looked elite in the few games when be had oso and the italians around him.

    Does he need a reduced role? Yes.

    Do I think he'll get it? Yes, unless we have another year of injuries to all other midfielders not named Michael Bradley.

    remember that we have had okello, priso, oso, kaye and bradley to fit into 2-3 CM roles.

    okello missed almost the entire season through injury, oso was only fit to play just over 50% of minutes, priso was returning from injury and frankly looked rusty and not great in the games he played and kaye was injured for most his time here.

    bradley was only playing by virtue of being the only CM fit most the time, bob even said in his post philly interview that the idea was not to play MB this much but it was more out of necessity.

    i agree he shouldnt be starting every week next year. i also think he won't, assuming we bring in suitable depth.

    A MB starting 22-27 games is a huge asset for the club.
    Last edited by leedsandTFC; 10-14-2022 at 12:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Yep, last time I checked the thread title wasn't "Let's attack Michael Bradley."

    On the contract point, club options are mutual under FIFA regs (which is why Camillo Sanvezzo couldn't be forced to stay in Vancouver). So the club can't mutually exercise it, giving Bradley the opportunity to turn it down if he wants. I know, that's unlikely to happen.

    I'm wondering who we're eyeing in-league, as Manning seemed to stress going after "Drew Moor and Stephen Beitashour" types.
    Whatever Micheal Bradley’s play over the past few years, he’s been one of the most intelligent and thoughtful sports figures ever to grace this too often crummy city. Also one of the few to express real love and concern for this place.

    Many players in all the various Toronto teams over the years have been brilliant in their play but pretty dumb and worse as public figures. I think anyone who obsesses over attacking Bradley’s character from behind their screens so far removed from reality must have truly pitiful and small lives. (And I’m not talking about being critical of his football, but instead some other bizarre phenomenon found on these boards.)

    Yeah, I wonder too about these Moor and Beitashour types Manning speaks of. I get that was a successful strategy here before but is it still and who is out there that can be acquired?

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    Sorry to change the topic here, but I haven't been paying full attention to the team's comings and goings in the last month or so ...

    Did something happen with Insigne? I think I saw something where he was unhappy being subbed off in the Miami game or something? And now it looks like he hasn't posted on social media for about 2 weeks?

    Is something going down?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think we all understand each other, and there is actually pretty high level of agreement on who and what we are. Face it, a lot of us are worried about BB, but most everyone knows that we have to stay the course. 4 managers in 4 years wouldn't be a roadmap to success.

    Most arguments now are just a function of everyone being pissed off at what happened here.

    I am putting TFC in a box for two months after locker cleanout day. I am heading to the CMNT thread on this board if others go there (mods, you might want to think about moving that thread to the main board, until Dec 18 - as an exception?), or the Voyageurs board (if they don't).
    Trying to get WC discussion properly started. Above is from 3 days ago, before the Kingmans fight scene started.

    Anybody interested in joining me over there?
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Trying to get WC discussion properly started. Above is from 3 days ago, before the Kingmans fight scene started.

    Anybody interested in joining me over there?
    Yes, I'm ready for World Cup discussion. I found it hard to care that much about TFC this year anyway for obvious reasons with the team we were fielding, and the excitement of Canada being in the World Cup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by los sonadores View Post
    Whatever Micheal Bradley’s play over the past few years, he’s been one of the most intelligent and thoughtful sports figures ever to grace this too often crummy city. Also one of the few to express real love and concern for this place.

    Many players in all the various Toronto teams over the years have been brilliant in their play but pretty dumb and worse as public figures. I think anyone who obsesses over attacking Bradley’s character from behind their screens so far removed from reality must have truly pitiful and small lives. (And I’m not talking about being critical of his football, but instead some other bizarre phenomenon found on these boards.)

    Yeah, I wonder too about these Moor and Beitashour types Manning speaks of. I get that was a successful strategy here before but is it still and who is out there that can be acquired?
    At the risk of belabouring the pointless Michael Bradley discussion, the bolded is very true. My wife's cousin is his neighbour, and Michael is highly committed to Toronto. He's rare. His integrity shouldn't be in question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    Michael Bradley led the league in completed passes, progressive passes and line breaking passes.

    He looked elite in the few games when be had oso and the italians around him.

    Does he need a reduced role? Yes.
    What this says to me is that he would be a perfect Cheyrou type to come into a match later on when & if we're having trouble breaking a team down, not as a DM, but as a more forward mid with less defensive responsibilities.

    There is definitely room for that and it's something we haven't had since Cheyrou retired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    Sorry to change the topic here, but I haven't been paying full attention to the team's comings and goings in the last month or so ...

    Did something happen with Insigne? I think I saw something where he was unhappy being subbed off in the Miami game or something? And now it looks like he hasn't posted on social media for about 2 weeks?

    Is something going down?
    He seems very committed.

    Was at end of year media availability and spoke very optimistically about next season, and praised Bob as a coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    At the risk of belabouring the pointless Michael Bradley discussion, the bolded is very true. My wife's cousin is his neighbour, and Michael is highly committed to Toronto. He's rare. His integrity shouldn't be in question.
    I wouldn’t question it either but for the good of all involved the right thing needs to be done here. MB was not the reason we failed this season but he is clearly slowing down. I don’t think a 35 going on 36 version of MB playing every minute of every game is good for the player or his legacy.

    Imagine the sadness of any Italian knowing Pirlo played for NYCFC. Tell me all involved would rather not have that cleansed from memory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootBallAZ View Post
    Yea well tell that to Perez.
    And where's he managing now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    He seems very committed.

    Was at end of year media availability and spoke very optimistically about next season, and praised Bob as a coach.
    Okay, good. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I wouldn’t question it either but for the good of all involved the right thing needs to be done here. MB was not the reason we failed this season but he is clearly slowing down. I don’t think a 35 going on 36 version of MB playing every minute of every game is good for the player or his legacy.

    Imagine the sadness of any Italian knowing Pirlo played for NYCFC. Tell me all involved would rather not have that cleansed from memory.
    Yeah, his play should be questioned. Just not his commitment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    What this says to me is that he would be a perfect Cheyrou type to come into a match later on when & if we're having trouble breaking a team down, not as a DM, but as a more forward mid with less defensive responsibilities.

    There is definitely room for that and it's something we haven't had since Cheyrou retired.
    That's a really good point, one possible direction that should be considered.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    A Friday seems like an appropriate day to reveal who's on their way out of TO. Maybe we'll get some news today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootBallAZ View Post
    Yea well tell that to Perez
    And midfield of oso and Marky for 7 games that played fluid and pushed the ball up instead of turning and giving it to a goalie who can't make a pass.
    well delgado declined badly in his last year here and was a turnover machine and oso was only fit to play just over 50% of minutes this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    And where's he managing now?

    you keep missing the point- ill attempt to be clear- based on the change the former coach had made to sit bradley for two mid-fielders who would move the ball forward and not slow the game down to a stand still showed how fluid the midfield could have been.

    Perez now is not coaching but did stints with real madrid and barca recently-

    am i to understand that because someone isnt coaching his tactics are invalid although it showed results opposed to the current manager?

    would be nice if you would add more than your condescending- where is he now? does not add to the conversation on how the team can be improved and how there is proof of TFC playing much more fluid with a faster paced tempo when bradley isnt the center of attention.

    Further more- you do see all new comers always defer to bradley instead of moving the ball forward- the one time i recall LI brushed off bradley is when osorio was playing and was clearly the better option to push the pace and move the ball forward.


    I answered where perez is now- you sound rigid in your way of thinking- because a former coach who was hired by TFC management - had the courage to sit Bradley and show us that a midfield of osorio and marky worked very well versus an older aging player, who plays the ball backwards more times than not or stops and stands to make a pass.

    furthermore- to over look the fact that multiple of people on this board pointed out this clear fact.

    and to relate to your way of thinking.

    Seba is awesome- where is he playing now?
    Jozy is amazing- where is he playing now?

    you see what i did-its pretty simple to do - when you dont have anything meaningful to add to the conversation and try to shut down the narrative of the plain fact that bradley is the issue ( he had great stats- playing almost the same minutes as other starting goalies while stripping the mid-field depth to be dependent on someone who shouldnt be playing full 90 minutes, especially in a 3-0 or 4-0 game with 20 minutes left- when its about the "youth" movement.)


    i kindly ask that you block me if you cannot refrain from responding and/or adding meaningful talking points.


    Zlatan is great- where is he playing now?
    Last edited by FootBallAZ; 10-14-2022 at 10:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootBallAZ View Post
    you keep missing the point- ill attempt to be clear- based on the change the former coach had made to sit bradley for two mid-fielders who would move the ball forward and not slow the game down to a stand still showed how fluid the midfield could have been.

    Perez now is not coaching but did stints with real madrid and barca recently-

    am i to understand that because someone isnt coaching his tactics are invalid although it showed results opposed to the current manager?

    would be nice if you would add more than your condescending- where is he now? does not add to the conversation on how the team can be improved and how there is proof of TFC playing much more fluid with a faster paced tempo when bradley isnt the center of attention.

    Further more- you do see all new comers always defer to bradley instead of moving the ball forward- the one time i recall LI brushed off bradley is when osorio was playing and was clearly the better option to push the pace and move the ball forward.


    I answered where perez is now- you sound rigid in your way of thinking- because a former coach who was hired by TFC management - had the courage to sit Bradley and show us that a midfield of osorio and marky worked very well versus an older aging player, who plays the ball backwards more times than not or stops and stands to make a pass.

    furthermore- to over look the fact that multiple of people on this board pointed out this clear fact.

    and to relate to your way of thinking.

    Seba is awesome- where is he playing now?
    Jozy is amazing- where is he playing now?

    you see what i did-its pretty simple to do - when you dont have anything meaningful to add to the conversation and try to shut down the narrative of the plain fact that bradley is the issue ( he had great stats- playing almost the same minutes as other starting goalies while stripping the mid-field depth to be dependent on someone who shouldnt be playing full 90 minutes, especially in a 3-0 or 4-0 game with 20 minutes left- when its about the "youth" movement.


    i kindly ask that you block me if you cannot refrain from responding and/or adding meaningful talking points.


    Zlatan is great- where is he playing now?
    michael bradley was top 5 for progressive passes (forward) and made more line breaking passes than any single player in MLS in the year 2022, this notion that he always plays backwards is simply not true.
    Last edited by leedsandTFC; 10-14-2022 at 10:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    michael bradley was top 5 for progressive passes (forward) and made more line breaking passes than any single player in MLS in the year 2022, this notion that he always plays backwards is simply not true.
    I have issues with some of his defensive and offensive zone numbers, but his central number eight numbers were still pretty elite.

    His issue is range and having to play as a two-way mid for 90 mins. By min 66 he usually looks pretty gassed defensively.

    Also, although Bob seems to rotate the central three as a triangle, it often didn't seem to work and no one was deep enough, even when we had Oso, Poz and Kaye in there. The default seemed to be Michael dropping back as a defacto number six quite often, which he just can't play. He doesn't have the speed to cut off and intercept passes, to break up passing lanes, and he's never been a particularly good marker.

    He has to be a number eight. If we're using him as a six or 10 half the time, he becomes a liability and odd moments when it really matters, such as when the defense is overloaded on one side, or caught high in transition.

    Again, that goes directly to him playing constantly, all the time. More midfield depth and that won't happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    well delgado declined badly in his last year here and was a turnover machine and oso was only fit to play just over 50% of minutes this year.

    I think you are missing the point- its not about the two players specifically- but more about their style of playing versus that of bradley- i dont need marky to play for TFC anyone who can move the ball , keep the pace, not play the ball backwards and stand still while trying to make a pass.

    i am simple person! im not asking for what TFC had - but more specifically to the type of mid-fielder TFC needs which is not Bradley especially when Bono is playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootBallAZ View Post
    you keep missing the point- ill attempt to be clear- based on the change the former coach had made to sit bradley for two mid-fielders who would move the ball forward and not slow the game down to a stand still showed how fluid the midfield could have been.
    If this is true now then how did Bradley lead MLS is progressive and line breaking passing? Now I am not saying he is the key to success but I also don't see him as some black hole that if removed from the line up in 2022 we would automatically become playoff bound.

    am i to understand that because someone isnt coaching his tactics are invalid although it showed results opposed to the current manager?

    would be nice if you would add more than your condescending- where is he now? does not add to the conversation on how the team can be improved and how there is proof of TFC playing much more fluid with a faster paced tempo when bradley isnt the center of attention.
    I said that because Perez is brought up here and there as some tactical mastermind because he sat Bradley for a few minutes. It's not like he glued him to the bench and it's also not like he made us somehow a good team in his time yet he is name dropped as he had the answers. If he was as good as some perceive then he would be employed as he is a youngish manager with some solid connections as you mentioned.

    As for how the team can be improved I said that in a comment on this page about MB doing the offensive Cheyrou-type sub role instead of a starting DM.


    and to relate to your way of thinking.

    Seba is awesome- where is he playing now?
    Jozy is amazing- where is he playing now?
    Zlatan is great- where is he playing now?
    First being a player means you get old and have to retire from playing as you lose it, like Seba. For the other two, Jozy playing for Puebla currently and doing alright and Zlatan playing in Milan but he is injured still I beleive.

    Same can't be said for middle aged managers. It's apples and oranges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokecell View Post
    A Friday seems like an appropriate day to reveal who's on their way out of TO. Maybe we'll get some news today?
    Too early, I think. My sense of BB is that he'll pull apart game performances for several weeks, try to compare where they broke down each week with their stated objectives and training at the time, then compare it with what he thinks of them as individuals willing to buy in and learn from him.

    That doesn't mean he'll necessarily get the right answers, just that he's not an off-the-cuff guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    michael bradley was top 5 for progressive passes (forward) and made more line breaking passes than any single player in MLS in the year 2022, this notion that he always plays backwards is simply not true.

    stats are only stats if you arent really taking into consideration the play on field- which has shown he passes the ball back a lot of time- in 2022 he played almost as the last man-so options would be limited.

    if you want another point regarding the play style required of bradley- every time TFC managed to press correctly and cause a turnover the ball would goto an unprepared bradley who gave the ball away or wasnt ready to make the pass forward to counter from the defensive high-press.

    there has to be one at least one other person who seen this from bradley this season

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootBallAZ View Post
    stats are only stats if you arent really taking into consideration the play on field- which has shown he passes the ball back a lot of time- in 2022 he played almost as the last man-so options would be limited.

    if you want another point regarding the play style required of bradley- every time TFC managed to press correctly and cause a turnover the ball would goto an unprepared bradley who gave the ball away or wasnt ready to make the pass forward to counter from the defensive high-press.

    there has to be one at least one other person who seen this from bradley this season
    yes, stats show you how each player actually performed this year, as opposed to how you feel they did.

    teams build entire title winning rosters based on stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I have issues with some of his defensive and offensive zone numbers, but his central number eight numbers were still pretty elite.

    His issue is range and having to play as a two-way mid for 90 mins. By min 66 he usually looks pretty gassed defensively.

    Also, although Bob seems to rotate the central three as a triangle, it often didn't seem to work and no one was deep enough, even when we had Oso, Poz and Kaye in there. The default seemed to be Michael dropping back as a defacto number six quite often, which he just can't play. He doesn't have the speed to cut off and intercept passes, to break up passing lanes, and he's never been a particularly good marker.

    He has to be a number eight. If we're using him as a six or 10 half the time, he becomes a liability and odd moments when it really matters, such as when the defense is overloaded on one side, or caught high in transition.

    Again, that goes directly to him playing constantly, all the time. More midfield depth and that won't happen.
    I agree with this but I don't even see him as being an 8 or any number really. An 8 if we had to pick but I would see him as a "we are losing by a goal, it's the 80th minute, we're getting nothing going, toss him in a midfield four to 'press' high and try to win a ball in transition to make use of a possible line breaking pass".

    That's probably never going to happen but that would be his best use. That and starting in the VC and maybe a few random matches depending on schedule, injury status of starters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    yes, stats show you how each player actually performed this year, as opposed to how you feel they did.

    teams build entire title winning rosters based on stats.


    Do you have stats that point out bradley's turn over rate, passes that were skyrocketed out the field or impact on a pass leading to a goal?

    if so could you kindly share- Stats need to have some meaning other than - he made high % passes, you understand playing minutes like he was a goalie will also inflate the percentage of completed passes due to the fact he is always on the field.

    I use SPSS on a daily- I work with stats- I understand what you are saying but there is more to it than just the raw numbers good sir

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    Quote Originally Posted by FootBallAZ View Post
    if you want another point regarding the play style required of bradley- every time TFC managed to press correctly and cause a turnover the ball would goto an unprepared bradley who gave the ball away or wasnt ready to make the pass forward to counter from the defensive high-press.

    there has to be one at least one other person who seen this from bradley this season
    I see it but also I recognize MB isn't a naive player. He knows our defense and Bono are questionable. Lots of times when he messed up situations like this I think at least some of it stems from being of two minds. There's a slight hesitation from him usually and it leads to him losing possession. Lack of confidence in those behind him mostly and that's why he was better with the Italians and a midfield of Oso + MAK that one match. Same idea as I mentioned with our CBs and Bono; when they see him muff a 20 yard shot right at his face then it leads them to over commit and try to do too much to cover every angle and they aren't that quality so they get pulled out of position. It's a team of XI and we need better pieces to have all facets work better and we didn't have that in 2022.

    But I still think MB best for the offensive sub role. Maybe a midfield clogger if we are up by one late on or hanging onto a draw away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    And where's he managing now?
    He was just recently spending time with Real and Barca observing and absorbing more knowledge and ready to make the next step. I think I saw a tweet somewhere about that.

    He's also been in Real's youth teams before, so perhaps will be somewhere in Spain.

    I for one, really liked him, and wish we would have made him permanent here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I see it but also I recognize MB isn't a naive player. He knows our defense and Bono are questionable. Lots of times when he messed up situations like this I think at least some of it stems from being of two minds. There's a slight hesitation from him usually and it leads to him losing possession. Lack of confidence in those behind him mostly and that's why he was better with the Italians and a midfield of Oso + MAK that one match. Same idea as I mentioned with our CBs and Bono; when they see him muff a 20 yard shot right at his face then it leads them to over commit and try to do too much to cover every angle and they aren't that quality so they get pulled out of position. It's a team of XI and we need better pieces to have all facets work better and we didn't have that in 2022.

    But I still think MB best for the offensive sub role. Maybe a midfield clogger if we are up by one late on or hanging onto a draw away.

    appreciate your response! I agree regarding the role.

    I think the bigger issue maybe the connection between team morale and whats said within a team vs what gets reported back to coaching- i think this could be negatively impacting the team morale- as we have heard over the past two seasons there has been a fracture and two groups be developed on the team.

    I guess for me at this point is to try something different where BOB isnt involved in every team aspect - as a player I would feel highly uncomfortable knowing a player is getting paid more than what I would be valued(Oso) and speaking freely could cost an opportunity or career.

    the other thing is the management specifically Bill Manning seems like he is better than us supporters, knows more and doesnt need to be transparent with us(lack of marketing is understated) which comes to BOB who seems very rigid in his view and maybe in his personality and assessment of others.

    Lawrence issue doesnt make any sense- my bro works with his family member as well -and the whole situation doesnt seem it was played in a practical/fair way to the team and player - considering lawrence is connected to bill manning

 

 

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