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  1. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Nail on the head.

    In isolation that GAM for Petrasso is awesome, but he was adequate back-up and now you've added to this already massive laundry list of needs this off-season
    I think what Petrasso brings to the table is being over exaggerated though. He is a back up who probably will play little and when he does, at left mid or wing as he was after Criscito got here. Antonoglu can do that if he wants youth but more likely BB has his eyes on a vet.

  2. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Nail on the head.

    In isolation that GAM for Petrasso is awesome, but he was adequate back-up and now you've added to this already massive laundry list of needs this off-season. Maybe that's not such a big deal if the club weren't currently poor at recruiting players quickly, well, and at good numbers. And that money wouldn't mean much or anything if you didn't need it because you overpaid for so many players.
    A slogan for this off-season window!
    Time to order some TFC branded Polos from 4imprint.ca featuring this message.
    Then hand them out to the managerial staff as the on your body/in the others face stretch goal daily reminder.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 11-10-2022 at 09:49 AM. Reason: Grammar

  3. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    free agents we should be all over:

    blessing, hollingshead, johnson, callens.
    BB...

  4. #934
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    To me this the success of this off season depends on how many proven, dependable players we can bring in. If we have an injury in midfield I want the first guy off the bench to be a proven commodity, not a youth player. Additions or subtractions of Petrasso types doesnít particularly mean a lot in my view.

    I am also skittish on the enthusiasm for Johnson. If heís that solid why is NY looking to turn the page?

  5. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think what Petrasso brings to the table is being over exaggerated though. He is a back up who probably will play little and when he does, at left mid or wing as he was after Criscito got here. Antonoglu can do that if he wants youth but more likely BB has his eyes on a vet.
    Yep, and portu doesn't really understand how salary cap leagues work, he just likes to complain.

    Most our signings under BB have been good, it's just we've recruited probably half a squad due to cap/ time restrictions so far.

  6. #936
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    To me this the success of this off season depends on how many proven, dependable players we can bring in. If we have an injury in midfield I want the first guy off the bench to be a proven commodity, not a youth player. Additions or subtractions of Petrasso types doesn’t particularly mean a lot in my view.

    I am also skittish on the enthusiasm for Johnson. If he’s that solid why is NY looking to turn the page?
    They have a few big players out of contract all will be looking for big raises.

  7. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    They have a few big players out of contract all will be looking for big raises.
    Iím just skeptical of that as the name floated in the press as his replacement didnít appear to be terribly cheap either.

    My thought is, if NER can find someone like Petrovic, thereís a better route to go here than Sean Johnson. He bumbles the odd goal, which I think is something weíre already sick of with Bono. Also something I donít think should be on his resume for the price tag.

  8. #938
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    According to MLS Network / twitter chatter...
    Candidates to MLS...
    Bitello-CM.
    Sergio Mosquera-CB.
    ?

  9. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Iím just skeptical of that as the name floated in the press as his replacement didnít appear to be terribly cheap either.

    My thought is, if NER can find someone like Petrovic, thereís a better route to go here than Sean Johnson. He bumbles the odd goal, which I think is something weíre already sick of with Bono. Also something I donít think should be on his resume for the price tag.
    gpd forbid TFC go out and find a bargain in this small futbol world

  10. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I’m just skeptical of that as the name floated in the press as his replacement didn’t appear to be terribly cheap either.

    My thought is, if NER can find someone like Petrovic, there’s a better route to go here than Sean Johnson. He bumbles the odd goal, which I think is something we’re already sick of with Bono. Also something I don’t think should be on his resume for the price tag.
    his playing out of the back and other stuff are elite though, he probably has a better passing range than a couple of our defenders.

    having a tried and tested MLS gk who has performed well for a good team in MLS for a long time is incredibly valuable in this league.

    you could get a petrovic from europe, but you could also get someone who doesn't settle/ flops.

  11. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    having a tried and tested MLS gk who has performed well for a good team in MLS for a long time is incredibly valuable in this league.

    you could get a petrovic from europe, but you could also get someone who doesn't settle/ flops.
    I think this hits the nail on the head - there's value in having a known and successful quantity. Look at JJ for example - he looked like a quality striker in Poland that could provide value to us, but he just hasn't been able to be successful in MLS yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    gpd forbid TFC go out and find a bargain in this small futbol world
    Oh I think they recently have... just not basement bargain.
    I think JJ was a fine find and Fede may turn out to be an El Gordo jackpot for what he gets.
    Lets see if BB/BM can work some of that kind of magic at the entry salary level of the spectrum.

  13. #943
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    also petrovic as an example:

    1 mill fee/ 5 year contract = 200K

    his budget hit is 425K a year.

    sean johnson made 550K last year and would max cost just over 600K (likely less).

    petrovic will almost certainly be leaving this offseason or next to go back to europe, so they will have to get lucky again with a transfer.

    sean johnson would be here and number 1 for 3-4 seasons.

    this is the big benefit to bringing in tried and tested MLS vets, especially in FA.

  14. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    also petrovic as an example:

    1 mill fee/ 5 year contract = 200K

    his budget hit is 425K a year.

    sean johnson made 550K last year and would max cost just over 600K (likely less).

    petrovic will almost certainly be leaving this offseason or next to go back to europe, so they will have to get lucky again with a transfer.

    sean johnson would be here and number 1 for 3-4 seasons.

    this is the big benefit to bringing in tried and tested MLS vets, especially in FA.
    he may not even be interested in coming here, he made the US squad,he may wanna do the oso thing

  15. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    he may not even be interested in coming here, he made the US squad,he may wanna do the oso thing
    he's 33 and the backup gk, likely not touching the pitch.

    anyways im just using him as an example of why mls vets are great if you can get them in without extending too much.

    LAFC just won a double based on their window last offseason where they did just that (acosta, crepeau, hollingshead, tajourdi shradi, illie, escobar).

    we should basically looking to replicate that.

  16. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    he's 33 and the backup gk, likely not touching the pitch...
    Probably.

    Still... lots of goal keepers and many an other player have had the opportunity to grace a WC pitch as an 'older'... starter or designated back-up.

    A few from memory lane...

    https://www.oldest.org/sports/player...ifa-world-cup/



    For the record, I am alright with SJ being a Red.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 11-10-2022 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Grammar

  17. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    For the record, I am alright with SJ being a Red.
    I was never sold on Johnson as he makes enough gaffs with the ball at his feet. I can only imagine what he would be like after a season under the telage of Conway.

  18. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I was never sold on Johnson as he makes enough gaffs with the ball at his feet. I can only imagine what he would be like after a season under the telage of Conway.
    Okay, but you do realize that logically, you have as much reason to think Jon Conway IMPROVED Alex Bono as you did that he made him worse.

    You're literally looking at a shit performer and saying "well he must have had a shit teacher."

    But without looking at the teacher and methodology, you could be taking away the only reason they weren't even worse.

    I'm not saying that's the case. If he were that good, someone probably would've poached him to a bigger club. You may well turn out to be right.

    But when we know and see nothing of the man's work, assuming he's utter shit to the level that he will worsen any keeper who comes here is jumping to rather large and perhaps unfair conclusions.

    Sometimes a bad worker does have bad tools. Maybe a 6'1 inch journeyman keeper who is 36 and a guy who has been dropping balls he should catch since he was cut by Perez, our former manager, on the US u18 squad just weren't going to be long-term options in this league.

    The reason I play devil's advocate on this is simply that we have seen and know nothing about Jon Conway's work. The outcome by a worker is not always directly connected to the input of a manager. Not everyone can be made more than what they are.

  19. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Okay, but you do realize that logically, you have as much reason to think Jon Conway IMPROVED Alex Bono as you did that he made him worse.

    You're literally looking at a shit performer and saying "well he must have had a shit teacher."

    But without looking at the teacher and methodology, you could be taking away the only reason they weren't even worse.

    I'm not saying that's the case. If he were that good, someone probably would've poached him to a bigger club. You may well turn out to be right.

    But when we know and see nothing of the man's work, assuming he's utter shit to the level that he will worsen any keeper who comes here is jumping to rather large and perhaps unfair conclusions.

    Sometimes a bad worker does have bad tools. Maybe a 6'1 inch journeyman keeper who is 36 and a guy who has been dropping balls he should catch since he was cut by Perez, our former manager, on the US u18 squad just weren't going to be long-term options in this league.

    The reason I play devil's advocate on this is simply that we have seen and know nothing about Jon Conway's work. The outcome by a worker is not always directly connected to the input of a manager. Not everyone can be made more than what they are.
    i think the league passed bono by in many ways.

    a lot more is expected of GKs in 2022 than when he first joined.

    also, johnson has done all his developing, there's zero reason to believe he would regress.

  20. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Okay, but you do realize that logically, you have as much reason to think Jon Conway IMPROVED Alex Bono as you did that he made him worse.
    The reason I play devil's advocate on this is simply that we have seen and know nothing about Jon Conway's work. The outcome by a worker is not always directly connected to the input of a manager. Not everyone can be made more than what they are.
    Except I would argue that Irwin regressed year to year for 3 years. Westberg regressed year to year for 3 years. Bono regressed year to year for too many years to the point where he would be lucky to be a back up on a good MLS team.

    All three got worse annually in multiple facets especially distribution and box command. If it was just Bono then yes, it could be the player. However if a whole team (in this case the GK squad) regresses incrementally then it's more likely an issue of poor management or training. Is that 100% true? Impossible to say but there is no way anyone can say any of those three GKs improved under Conway's watch and two were pretty established and one was the 'next big USMNT GK'.

  21. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    also, johnson has done all his developing, there's zero reason to believe he would regress.
    Westberg & Irwin did.

    How sharp would anyone be if the daily training was shit day in and day out for a year, two years, etc? You will lose it without the right training no matter how seasoned or experienced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Westberg & Irwin did.
    no they didn't

  23. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    no they didn't
    Irwin went from a legit MLS starter, to a MLS Cup starter, to the bench, to bench obscurity in 3 seasons.

    Westberg clearly declined in his two best areas; distribution & box command. That was clear if you compare 2019 to 2021/2022.

    Also ask yourself why you would get a GK coach who was a MLS 1.0 shot stopper with limited distribution and box skills in his day to teach others to do what he couldn't? It wasn't the way back then in NCAA & old days MLS. It was athleticism & shot stopping and that's pretty much what our GKs become after time.

  24. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Westberg & Irwin did.

    How sharp would anyone be if the daily training was shit day in and day out for a year, two years, etc? You will lose it without the right training no matter how seasoned or experienced.
    Irwin was never consistent. His career is literally peaks and valleys, one great game followed by two mediocre or poor ones.

    Westberg regressed... after turning 35, having COVID and two injuries. His first year with us, when he was already 33, he was phenomenal. But he's a small keeper who was never the most physically gifted. Age won out, arguably.

    Again, not really proof of anything without also looking at the input.

  25. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Also ask yourself why you would get a GK coach who was a MLS 1.0 shot stopper with limited distribution and box skills in his day to teach others to do what he couldn't?
    By that position, only great footballers would be great managers.

    If anything, the opposite is true. THe ones who had to work hard just to make it to the lowest rungs of professionalism usually make better coaches than the ones who were stars from a young age.

    And coaches take training and certification, they don't just teach from positions of experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Oh I think they recently have... just not basement bargain.
    I think JJ was a fine find and Fede may turn out to be an El Gordo jackpot for what he gets.
    Letís see if BB/BM can work some of that kind of magic at the entry salary level of the spectrum.
    Doesnít take much brains or a fantastic scouting department to take a guy off the European champions roster and Juventus and pay him the fourth highest salary in MLS like we are with Fede, on the other hand paying JJ close to million the next three years will go down as a bad signing, not to mention it was Bob Bradleyís first signing at this club

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    I'm not understanding this John Conway scapegoating. How in the world do you know the training regiments? Are you on the training ground? Are you in the coaches meeting with Bob?

    I'm kind of getting sick of this to be honest. Unless your current staff, or former, and want to out yourself here and describe your professional opinion, everything here is just speculation.

    Here is a news flash, Bono just sucks and returned to his level, Westburg was in decline before TFC and not really physically gifted to mask deficiencies.

  28. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I'm not understanding this John Conway scapegoating. How in the world do you know the training regiments? Are you on the training ground? Are you in the coaches meeting with Bob?

    I'm kind of getting sick of this to be honest. Unless your current staff, or former, and want to out yourself here and describe your professional opinion, everything here is just speculation.

    Here is a news flash, Bono just sucks and returned to his level, Westburg was in decline before TFC and not really physically gifted to mask deficiencies.
    I guess we'll see when we get a new GK.

  29. #959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I'm not understanding this John Conway scapegoating. How in the world do you know the training regiments? Are you on the training ground? Are you in the coaches meeting with Bob?

    I'm kind of getting sick of this to be honest. Unless your current staff, or former, and want to out yourself here and describe your professional opinion, everything here is just speculation.

    Here is a news flash, Bono just sucks and returned to his level, Westburg was in decline before TFC and not really physically gifted to mask deficiencies.
    yes, bono had a career year in 2017, as did a lot of our players.

    is it conway's fault that virtually every starter from 2017 declined in the years following?

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    Here are some names likely to be taken in the expansion draft that could be immediately dealt within MLS afterwards.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/best-...xpansion-draft

 

 

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