i'd be shocked if we didn't use the u22 initiative signings to add a LB/ CM (maybe even a striker if we trade ayo).Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky
the more i think about it, the more i think jesus should get another go with a proper preseason. he really burnt out the second half of last season, but he had also just played for a season and a half straight....
Agreed - JJ was a MONSTER that first half of the season, maybe he can be one again.
Yeah I agree with that. I think we're too quick to dismiss him.
A utility forward who can play across the frontline wouldn't be a terrible idea to add.
is that mullinho's music?
I believe we need a Striker who can hold the ball like Jozy did to allow for others to provide support.
I have no issue with JJ- other then seemed like he never really had chemistry with LI or FB.
His Goal Rate was incredibly high- which I hope can be continued.
I wish we had (could have) the chance to see JJ's production teamed up with Poz, with FB, and LI on the sides and VV as a sub for Poz.
Have said it before, and said it again...we need to go for Croatian players...no idea why we don't. Great value for money. Petkovic from Dinamo Zagreb would be the perfect target man. Strong, skilled, and can score in the air as well. We need a presence up front to get to crosses.
Agreed, Poz working with them would be great.
I will be gladly proven wrong but I'm calling it now: If our midfield three is Bradley-Osorio-Kaye, we will not compete for the title and will have trouble making the playoffs.
They're all excellent players as number eights. Three numbers eights has never worked in MLS and I don't think will. If we had world-class central midfielders who were as good going back as coming forward, it might.
But between the three of them, we don't have a single two-tackle-per-game defender, we'll lose 70% of aerial challenges across the middle zone, as per last year.
Perhaps most important, we don't have recovery speed if caught too high on the press, as neither central defender is going to be quick. None of the three has strong acceleration, although Oso's pace over distance is okay.
This three looks good to some people on paper and you can all pile on if you want, but that midfield gets hammered by speed.
If we were playing a tactical setup with rigorous and strict movement responsibilities, it might work, because someone would always be careful to be back far enough to retreat and cover.
But that's not what BB or most most coaches in this league preach; they preach high possession and press, then attacking the opponents' worst tendencies from the highest-reward attack zones (at the top corners of the offensive box).
So we will have multiple occasions when we are caught with everyone high again, but will have no speed to react to it.
As I said, I will be glad to be proven wrong. Maybe he comes out 343 or 5-2-3 and the three back has us covered. But I doub it.
I am, I think, going to be this off seasons' skeptics. Our new starting centre half, if that's what he is, was benched in a league weaker than this one.
And we still don't have a new striker yet or goalie. Here's hoping we get a lot stronger in the next two weeks, so that by the time we're 10 or 12 games in and they realize our own midfield is being overrun, we have the parts to make changes.
(And before we get into any non-point arguments to expertise or other logical fallacies, he's also lost at other teams, too . His Chivas team was woeful, and he mostly got to build that from scratch. Being a great manager in a few circumstances, as football has always shown, does not mean you're a great manager forever, or all the time. )
Leedstfc, you of all people should recognize what's going to happen based on what's happening at Leeds. Every time they are caught high and the other team can bypass Adams/Rocca, Leeds are on dicey footing defensively. It's happened again and again this season.
The same thing is going to happen here, for largely the same reasons (Leeds are also playing a two mid, but also two high fullbacks, so they're often caught with two high central defenders retreating).
If we're counting on Richie to cover, it's worth considering that despite his speed and being in the 99th percentile of his position offensively, he is in the bottom third defensively. He is not a good tackler. PLus, he spends much of his time pushed high as well.
We were too aggressive offensively last season. It worked exactly once (we had four wins after they arrived but only one dominant, against Charlotte) , then Oso went out. Without him between Kay and Bradley we were lost. So presuming, as has been his norm, he missed five-to-ten games this season, what is the plan?
Even that one dominant performance was grounded in Charlotte being so terrified of the Italians that they sat back in their own end the entire match.
On paper, we should be competing for the league because of all the offensive skill. But no team holds the ball all the time. Good defensive, aggressive teams will cause us serious, serious problems defensively.
Fingers crossed on the next four weeks, but I refuse to be optimistic until we're competitive, and we're not now.
Last edited by jloome; 01-11-2023 at 11:22 AM.
Very well said.
He had locker room issues with his prior clubs too. Maybe we couldn’t see it building behind the scenes but i don’t think it was exactly surprising.
I think Aketxe is maybe the better example. On paper there was no reason why that guy couldn’t have been great here. But he just never quite found it.
Totally agree.
I’ll wait until I see the final roster come opening day to make any definitive judgements. I’m hoping they really put their foot down in the next 2-3 weeks and round out the roster. But there is so much to do and it feels like we’ve all seen this movie before.
marschball has very little in common with bradleyball, so to try to draw comparisons is futile. one seeks to concede possession and counterpress, the other seeks to dominate the ball (with some pressing, but nothing similar to what leeds do)..
in addition, leeds actually do have pace and tacklers in CM, and still get bypassed, so even the point you were trying to make is wrong.
"one dominant performance?"
we dominated every game for the first 8/9 games after the italians arrived, only comedic goalkeeping stopped us from winning virtually all of those. the portland game, for instance, was the best start to finish performance ive ever seen at BMO field, against a team uneaten in months. we outshot them 23-3 and had almost 60% possession.
in fact our xGA dropped to just over 1 (1.08) in that stretch, which over the whole season would give us one of the best defenses in the league. and that was with inferior defenders/ GK playing.
"good defensive teams" don't really exist in MLS. only 1 team in the entire league conceded under 1 g/game. another two were around the 1 goal/ game mark, but slightly over (and we signed one of those two's best CB).
if you look at the data, we were very good defensively in games we had bradley/oso/ insigne/berna and one of kaye/ nelson on the pitch. the only game we gave up significant xGa was in nashville, one of the toughest away games in the league and mostly through set pieces. and we still won.
Last edited by leedsandTFC; 01-11-2023 at 11:50 AM.
This is a bit of a digression, but Aketxe never looked that bad either.
He was next up to take a PK in Guadalajara. He was our 5th shooter. I still have this vivid memory of the Chivas players running by him on the pitch celebrating while he just stood there with a ball in his hands.
He very nearly became our Montiel, one of the most famous players in TFC history.
There is such a fine line in these things.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
oh man that would have been sexxy- its unfortunate poz couldnt be provider while TFC finally had quality.
I dont understand why they couldnt even get one game in- the trade didnt happen I believe for 2 league games after.
It took me months to get used to that moniker going around this board....
I think it's very fair to say "this is a huge WIP and we're probably going to look slow based on what we have so far". We need some level of speed and an heir apparent to Bradley, and we kinda needed it last year. Better late than never.
I choose, however, to snort some hopium and hope that the team that went on a 60 point pace were it not for horrendous goalkeeping is the one we see rather than the one where all the negatives pile up.
Thoughtful.
So jloome?
Fair to suggest… you may not yet be parked among some of the very concerned; the doom and gloom?
However, are certainly not very impressed by our roster situation/moves?
I agree with Jloome that we don't have a proper number 6, think it's actually a critical position to fill. Unfortunately it's not a priority from what Bob said, mentioning only backup midfielders as a priority.
Not easy to get players from Euro teams that qualify for Champs League, Europa, IC and still have national team ambitions to give up on all that or give it up for non-DP money. This isn't Football Manager where you can do whatever. These players have to want to come here too and not everyone does.
Yeah I agree with jloome too. To me, it's another way of framing the much-discussed MB issue. In a different world, MB would have gone upstairs, and we'd have used those dollars on Mendes.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
This is a key spot but without a move I would rather toss Oso into the 6, MAK at 8, Bradley on the bench, and try to score a MF with pace and some defensive responsibility at a decent $$$ domestically or abroad.
If the price is right, they will come. But there are others there as well....Manning/Bradley have zero connections to Croatia and that region, true, but surely would be prudent to look there and its much better than paying for wastes like Soteldo or and forgive me, I forgot the other Venezuelan kid (a Seba look alike) that was a complete bust.
I don't disagree with the overall thesis on the makeup of the team, but do keep in mind again 1) transfer window is far from over, and we have an open DP slot and 2) our current DPs are so comically superior to the general quality of the league that it's basically unfair that we get to use them, and they alone will make up for all manner of shortcomings
So let's see what happens. But yes, I do agree BB seems to have a huge mid field blindspot and that will hold us back. But, add a DP (young or otherwise) and a couple of signings and we may still do something just on the strength of our ability to sign two players that almost no other team could dream of having.
We'll know alot more by the closing of the window
As an aside can we please tone down the rage when someone disagrees with you about football? This thread is becoming really tiresome to slog through
Essentially, for me, if we can acquire more viable playing depth, I think we can overcome our speed issues (or even start addressing them for next year via a strong succession plan).
I am good with your ‘patch’ suggestion; reasonable.
Thoughtful.
So jloome?
Fair to suggest… you may not yet be parked among some of the very concerned; the doom and gloom?
However, are certainly not very impressed by our roster situation/moves?
I'm at the concerned stage, but not the "very concerned."
Even if this was the team we put on the field, we would probabyl compete for a playoff spot, because Insigne and Bernie are probably good for a minimum of twenty goals between them, plus assists. That's a hell of a boost from where we started last year, and we weren't that far off.
But I see TFC as a rich team, with ambition, and with the best fans. I don't think a team with holes in it is good enough.
Having said that, they've made some good moves so far. They got Oso back, they got Hedges. Those were key.
The striker situation is worrisome, but JJ might come good with rest. If he adds even half the first-half-of the seaosn output, we end up with a fourtene or fifteen-goal guy.
But our goalie and defensive situation is still very worrisome. I have a fundamental lack of faith in the tactical approach we took last year, as I think BB overrates the ability of all three mids to play defense and to shut down transitions.
A lot depends on Kaye. If he goes back to what he was two years ago -- a very good possession guy who's passes advanced play -- it might mitigate some of the defensive issues, with fewer turnovers.
But my suspicion is that our tactical approach is brutally naive; teams ALLOW us to set up in their end. They establish a low block, making the box hard to penetrate (as occurs with Leeds, our overall tactical approaches don't change the outcome with high press teams).
A team laden with great passers and players who find space in the box -- Man City, Arsenal -- can make that work.
Some days, we will make it work, because the Italians ARE great players and can make those passes. But the players they are surrounded with -- particularly our depth players -- CANNOT. They cannot operate in a quick, short pass, constant movement system in which they MUST retain possession most of the time, or we're constantly scrambling against counterattacks.
That's what I saw last year, even when we were good. Teams CEDED the middle of the park when we were going forward and just concentrated on low blocking us. And we had no answer for it after the first few games. With Oso, we were able to break them down anyway. Will he always be that consistent? (last year was, without a doubt, some of his best play ever). Will he always be healthy. Because NOBODY else in our midfield can play the line breaker, the guy who creeps into the box and shatters the low block with 1-2 passes.
So our issues from last year, in terms of why we gave up the worst transitional goal record in the league, still exist. By playing all three mids high, we open ourselves up continually to counter-attacking football.
Leedstfc you say it's not comparable but it's completely comparable, because both teams' tactics lead to the same outcome: high pressing only works for teams that are already great. Everyone else who tries a continual high press -- from Jesse MArsch at Leipzig, to Ragnick at Man Utd, to Bob in the playoffs when he lost starters to injury -- gets killed by the counter.
It's a bad tactic for a team of limited means. And every team in MLS is a team of limited means.
But like I said, I'm willing to see how it plays out. Maybe they change tack if it's getting killed despite roster improvements. Maybe transitional leaks become far less important with a good keeper and a central defender who's hard to out-muscle.
I'm on the fence, but skeptical.
Last edited by jloome; 01-11-2023 at 12:16 PM.
I dont remember that- I think I was still shocked over delgado's miss-
but I do remember the banger he hit from 30 yards out - hitting the top post - could have changed his whole outlook.
we likely aren't going to play with a high press this year, we will be going out to dominate games possession wise, and press when we lose the ball and have guys nearby.
this is obvious based on our signings, all of whom are good ball players. hedges, vazquez, keeping oso, rosted is by some accounts a good passer.
also fwiw, 538 league rankings puts the danish league very very closely to MLS, and the average player there is probably better than the average player here as our league quality is uplifted by the DPs.
rosted is out of favour there now, as is not uncommon to happen, but has played a lot of games there and won a title there.
and, no. we aren't going to have insigne and bernardeschi pressing like aaronson and summerville. as we saw from the backend of last season. it's not remotely similar, other than playing with a certain intensity.
im not a fan of marschball btw, i would be disappointed if we played like that, was happy when we ditched armas, who did.
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