Respectfully disagree with you on this front.Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud
Think these guys should be able to adapt if they otherwise have the tools. You’ll get the very odd one like Shaffleburg that ends up being a square peg in the round round hole, but for the most part I think it’s stuff these players should be able to learn in time.
Bob isn’t exactly a huge tinkerer in game either. Should be a more friendly tactical setup for a player to jump into vs. some other teams.
So twellman tweeted that teams had offered callens max tam.
If true, seems there are workarounds to the 15% wage increase rule for FAs.
Could be relevant in our chase for SJ
True but I mentioned it's better the past year or so. This was more an issue until Vanney but there needs to be a consistent identity and tactical plan instilled in the academy from the beginnings to TFC2 that stays constant no matter who is the first team manager or GM.
Who exactly is the academy director now anyway? Really they should have grabbed Tab Ramos or someone like that with a track record in youth development and let him run it all in a framework designed to lead to the first team. Seems to be too much change as well. Always a new manager at TFC2 and below. Stability there would help also.
Is it just me or did Sean Johnson visit Toronto, get wined, dined and Raptor'ed and then still hasn't signed? The USMNT team sheet for the International break is out and he is listed as "unattached"
Previous pages had news that he may be waiting on Anderlecht since he probably views this as his last chance to go to Europe.
I mean.... we all take that as "oh, he's signing" but wining and dining a star is common in all forms of business life, and they quite frequently turn you down anyway. I spent a month as city editor at the Sun trying to get a former reporter to rejoin us and it took drinks, free tickets to a game and dinner before he turned us down.
(He turned out to be a bit of a sociopath, albeit now quite rich in the private sector, so better for both parties, I guess.)
They won't offer him a serious deal. He's 33 and has deficiencies in his game. They'll try to get him short-term, because they'll buy a young prospect who is better and can be sold on, as they're a selling club.
Their current keeper is great... he's just too valuable on the transfer market to keep, and they're paying him $1.6M a year.
If they gave Johnson any sort of deal, he'd be there more than a year, as a foreigner on a work visa, and he's 33. He'd want at least two years, at least a million a year. I don't think, based on how their spending model works, that Anderlecht will offer that.
Last edited by jloome; 01-18-2023 at 01:09 PM.
I think part of the issue with the academies is that no one at them has EVER played at the top level. Stalteri is the closest, and he's assistant on the first team. How can they convey the proper level of intensity if they've never experienced it?
That was one of the most telling things from Oso. Against Croatia, he said, he finally understood what people had always tried to tell him, because Croatia basically found a new gear and a new approach, just by reading the game that was going against them. I'm paraphrasing it but he basically said, "and then they turned it up to a level of intensity we'd never seen before, with positioning we'd never seen before, angles of passes we'd never seen before."
It wasn't their technique, their athleticism or their fitness that killed them. It was that when the game moved into top gear, they couldn't read it quickly enough to shut croatia down. They couldn't play as well at full-speed for the entire game, maintain that focus, see all the right possibilities. "At the top level," Oso said, "they play at full-speed for the entire game."
To achieve that, Canadian players first have to see it in person, he said.
I feel it's the exact same issue with the kids and the MLS-level professional game. They are not getting serious enough competition early enough, at full speed. The intensity and demands placed on them are insufficient to the task at hand.
That is a setup issue, a coaching issue, a systemic issue.
EDIT: I think it's reflected in who has had the most caps for the team. We have always had a secondary quality issue.
Would anyone believe that Jay Chapman is in our Top 20 for all-time appearances (88) and has more appearances for TFC than Richie Laryea (83) Carl Robinson (83) Alejandro Pozuelo (82) ?
Once you get past the first 20 names, nearly everyone else who we've signed over the years has been here for either one season or two, and no more.
We've had a few good years due to big spending, but in the 17 since joining the league, most of our rosters have been pretty shit, and our youth have had minimal roles.
Last edited by jloome; 01-18-2023 at 01:28 PM.
Same thing happened with Hedges and he took almost a month to sign after that Raptors game. Seems to be the way it goes when players have other options and are older.
Good post. Well said.
I see everyone here blaming tfc and the staff, but no where is there any criticism of the players themselves. For the most part they have the skills, but not the drive or motivation to be the best and that is a huge part of the problem. For a while a lot of the academy players were entitled and they thought once they signed their pro deal they would walk into the first team and didn’t but the work in. This is a major part of the problem
Totally agree with this. Guys like Priso were talking about playing on TFC for a half season as a stop gap before heading off to Europe. Before even playing in a first team match. Gives me the impression that some feel they are too good for MLS and probably didn't work hard enough to be ready for the transition to the pros.
Agree with this as well. They need to do a better job snuffing that out at the academy level though.
It's tough for literal teenagers to recognize this fault though - y'all are like, these players should come in humble, mature, etc. Coaches have to do that leg work to help children become adult in both the game and in life. If it were one player, sure, but multiple players with this mindset is problematic on a systemic level, not on a personal/individual one.
Last edited by Yuushalinsky; 01-18-2023 at 03:23 PM.
Yeah, I agree. And it's not even being humble, I'd suggest. They won't care if a kid is cocky IF he backs it up with work rate to learn and improve. It's the ones who think they're ALREADY great that are the problem.
Jordan Hamilton recently saying he wants to come back to MLS is just a great example. Who's advising this guy?! Who's blowing smoke up his ass that he thinks he still has a shot at this level? Because despite his clear physical attributes, the read and involvement in the rest of the game was never there.
He went over to Ireland, scored one goal in thirteen games in a much lower-level league, and was benched. He just won't put in the required work. But he still thinks he can play in MLS.
Maybe kids over here see the style of game it is, wide open and without rigid tactical shape, and they just assume it's easier than it is. Certainly, that has befallen a ton of European players who've tried and been middling-to-poor.
Maybe TFC got so tired of having other youth systems (ahem... cough... sigma) eat their lunch that they used flattery as a recruitment technique.
Maybe it's cultural in that Canada has been emphasizing not pushing kids hard at sports, because of hockey parents, for two decades.
As someone at Colorado's blog pointed out a few weeks ago, Priso has top 1% defensive numbers, and had them in his first two games for Colorado -- and was pulled at half-time from both.
Reporters who've asked Robin Fraser why he isn't playing have been told it's because "it's not all about defense and talent." The message, clearly, is that if he doesn't listen to his coaches, he won't play.
You could read it in the kid's body language, his expressions. He was unbelievably sure of himself and cocky.
(He has insane potential as a DM but will probably never get there, in other words.)
They WANT that level of confidence... but only when the rest of the work is coming with it.
But for whatever reason, the coaches aren't getting the balance right, the mentality right. Perhaps it's endemic to the system nationally, that we're just too far behind football countries still to get kids with correct merciless attitude to success.
Last edited by jloome; 01-18-2023 at 03:41 PM.
I don’t see that at all, these kids are hard workers , they leave it all out on the field, problem is they have no “soccer IQ” and lack technical skills that most youngsters are taught in different continents all over the world. Fans of the North American game watch these kids impress in Brampton, Vancouver or New Jersey and think there ready for a European contract, I think we all learned a lesson watching our lads in this past World Cup
I definitely didn't see Okello leaving it all on the field. I think Nelsen does though. Out of all of the 'new grads' he is the one giving the most effort but of course his decision making is suspect often. I did think Priso put out the effort but maybe not in an all around sense or following the directions given.
Sorry, many of them DO NOT leave it all on the field.
E.g. Jordan Hamilton. Just one of many examples for him: MB was away, I can't remember if it was international duty or injury. Cheyrou was captain for the day. I had seats close to the field in the SW corner. It's obvious they were supposed to high press for a phase; a couple of players were busting their tails off incl. Cheyrou. Jordan (who hadn't run much yet so should not have been tired) did a slow jog towards the opposing keeper, like "look at me guys, I'm gonna pretend like I'm trying really hard." Cheyrou -- who is one of the calmest players I know -- absolutely REAMED out Hamilton. There were many, many other times where Hamilton did not give any impression of realizing that he's a young player on the field together with a bunch of vets, and that he has to work his tail off until exhaustion to earn his spot every week.
Priso was mentioned. I can give lots of examples for Jayden Nelson as well, and many of the other young Canadians. (Not all of them!) Sure lack of soccer IQ is also a big issue -- agree with you there. But I've said it many times: I suspect too many Canadian kids are used to being a medium-sized fish in the very small pond of Canadian soccer, and not realizing what it takes on the big stage. Many of those that do, don't play in Canada. It's probably a combination of their youth development, the TFC academy, and more.
He's either very gullible or doesn't know the league's rules (probably a bit of both; ex-jock announcers who try to play reporter are usually shit at it).
Only NYFC could offer him max tam under the CBA, so "clubs" is instantly incorrect.
Technically yes, but there are probably workarounds (nycfc trades their rights to another team, etc).
He's generally pretty connected wouldn't be surprised if this was true.
https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/s...h4BRnJO1Q&s=19
It's far more likely he's just got some element of it wrong.
Workarounds would all require a trade first; offers are submitted through the league and can't be bargained as after-the-fact contract changes, or none of the salary guidelines would be effective. It's why teams can only rip up a deal in year for renegotiation in year two.
But you can't trade a free agent or use them as a piece in a deal if you don't own their rights anymore. He was out of contract. So there's nothing to "work around."
(His agent might've had under the table talks about a year-two reopener but that's not really 'offering max tam', that's "letting an agent suggest max tam could win his signature" because ex-jock reporters are malleable tools for informational purposes).
We're kind of in uncharted territory but a potential sign and trade could have been attempted, a la nba.
However he never accepted so we dunno if it would have been allowed or not.
I've never heard of this happening, signing someone to trade them, and suspect it's against the Collective Bargaining Agreement, due to the potential negative ramifications when players don't have "no trade" clauses to prevent exploitation.
Agents find TV personalities are great "trial balloon" sources as they'll run anything that comes from an official connection without many questions asked.
Callens is going to Girona in La Liga.
ngl im glad callens not staying around in MLS if he wasnt going to be here.
excellent defender.
I think a lot of players believe they've made it just by being at TFC, ignoring that the GTA is way too big a region for one club to reliably find all the most talented prospects, and that the nature of youth development means the actual best players in the region vary from year to year. This is a problem everywhere to some extent, but I think it's especially bad here where being a star at TFC means you're automatically a star for the CanMNT too.
Hamilton's a good example of this - gets an invite to TFC's training camp in 2012 when he's 15 but is already built like a full-grown man, goes on to star for the academy team and U17 NT (which qualified for the world cup) for a couple of years, and is hyped by everyone as the best prospect for club and country. Goes on to stall and eventually regress while a kid a month younger than him, who plays the exact same position but didn't come through TFC and wasn't called up to a youth NT until he was the consensus #1 superdraft pick, develops into a champions league goalscorer and Canada's all-time scoring leader. I doubt Jordan ever saw that coming when he was 17
Thoughts on TFC's off-season - the signings we've actually made are all very good. I've always really liked Hedges and feel he has a very Moor-like profile. Diomande is worth a crack as long as his salary's reasonable and we get a good return on Akinola when we eventually deal him. Love having Vazquez back and think he'll be great as a super-sub. And Oso is self-explanatory, really.
Not crazy about the Johnson and Rosted potential signings but we need actual movement at this point and SJ especially is obviously an upgrade on what we had before.
Couldn't agree more with this.
This is also why I like Bob. He's willing to give the kids a go but if they cannot be consistent contributers he's not going to hold onto them, but instead will ship them off. The ones will the mental toughness and the work ethic may come through but the others will just flounder.
You know, the cynic in me is just saying, if I was an enterprising suit, who liked to push the envelope and enjoyed a bit of the shady workaround business, who was dealing with a Free Agent Player who was only interested in the DP Pay Cheque but already had a DP CB on the roster? I might suggest he go test the market, keep a distance and be publicly associated with a few clubs, but in the end be open to consider signing with an affiliated club that the parent company maintains the most shares of. Thereby, affording him the opportunity and ability to play in that new league/market or be eventually available, within the reasonable framework of plausible deniability, for a favorable loan option back to his last club. And the FIFA Fair Play Award goes to...
20 days until first Pre-season game:
Feb 8 vs Vancouver
Feb 11 vs LAFC
Feb 15 vs Portland
Feb 18 vs Galaxy
wonder if there will be a way to watch them this time around with a bunch of teams signing up to do this pre-season thing.
shiiit i so dont feel comfortable lol- 20 days is not too far out.
I would assume maybe apple tv- will broadcast ?
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