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Thread: Fire the Coach

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    Default Fire the Coach

    Ah yes the old 'Fire the Coach' after a season is put to bed early. all jokes aside though. Bob bradley has enough experience to realize this defense was atrocious
    and going to hinder the club. Ending the season with some of the biggest losses of the year hammers home the point, he was in charge of our defense and allowed it to be as such.
    Yes it will cause problems in the dressing room with his son as captain but not as big an issue as having a coach who just refuses to fix the biggest problem in his squad and gives up a entire season because of it.

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    I'm all for firing the Goalkeeper Coach. It's obvious he doesn't know how to get the best from his charges. #ConwayOut.

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    Ah yes, why not abandon the rebuild partway through and start again because feelings.

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    do we feel BB will be able to get the team to perform at a level to guarantee playoffs, if yes, continue the course, if not change it now so we dont need to wait even longer once BB gets dismissed, currently i dont see BB as able to get results consistently

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    Firing him now would just cause more chaos. Toronto fans seem to love instability.

    He knows the team needs a lot of pieces still. I expect a very active off season this winter. His judgement is next season, which was always the case.

    My only concern with his is his inflexibility on the formation. He's shown in games he can change but he keeps throwing out the same 4-3-3, which Insigne and Berna out wide which has not worked for awhile now.

    I'd love to see a 4-3-1-2.

    ------------------JJ - Berna--------------------
    -------------------Insigne----------------------
    -----------Oso - Bradley - Kaye--------------
    Criscito - Mavinga - MacNaughton - Laryea
    Last edited by SenorDingDong; 09-19-2022 at 09:12 AM.

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    Inflexibility is unfortunately another myth some people have been led to believe..last year he played games in a 4-3-3, 3-5-2, 4-4-2 and more..this year played a number of games in a back 3..and for example this year put Insigne at mid when he wasnt getting enough touches, not having enough influence or others were not doing well there..all this shows flexibility is there..4-3-3 was the best formation to go with at this point for different reasons..its simply a rebuild year but a good number of quality pieces have already been added such as Insigne, Criscito, Bernardeschi, Laryea and it shows that TFC fans should be patient and confident in this group

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    the knee-jerk reaction of fans... how sweet it is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    Inflexibility is unfortunately another myth some people have been led to believe..last year he played games in a 4-3-3, 3-5-2, 4-4-2 and more..this year played a number of games in a back 3..and for example this year put Insigne at mid when he wasnt getting enough touches, not having enough influence or others were not doing well there..all this shows flexibility is there..4-3-3 was the best formation to go with at this point for different reasons..its simply a rebuild year but a good number of quality pieces have already been added such as Insigne, Criscito, Bernardeschi, Laryea and it shows that TFC fans should be patient and confident in this group
    Very good post.

    In the first half of the year we used a bunch of different formations based on personnel.

    Since the italians came in we've been working with and towards a 4 3 3, which 100% makes sense as it's the ideal formation for a team with elite wide talent.

    We dont quite have the CB, ST to play it really well yet, but surely worth keeping it now, getting players reps for next season when we have CBS who can cover ground and a DP striker.

    This is all in the process of building a good team, even though it can be frustrating at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    Ah yes, why not abandon the rebuild partway through and start again because feelings.
    I don't think we should fire BB but this is the worst take in the thread. People want him fired because we're the highest spending team in the league and we'd be battling relegation in nearly any other league in the world, not "because feelings".

    Again I'd give him next year (Though my expectations are that he goes at the end of that year as it doesn't go well, but that's just my expectation) but let's not act like it's insane to want someone fired for a team fucking up this badly. There's not alot of historical precedence for a rebuild with this level of investment compared to the league the teams in going this poorly and it all working out.
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 09-19-2022 at 12:55 PM.

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    Spending unfortunately or fortunately does not equal success..Galaxy Miami Atlanta Seattle Chicago are high spenders and will all miss playoffs or barely make it..and if we are the highest spender because of Insigne, Bernardeschi, Criscito, Laryea, they started in the second half of the season which was just a step in the rebuild

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    I don't think we should fire BB but this is the worst take in the thread. People want him fired because we're the highest spending team in the league and we'd be battling relegation in nearly any other league in the world, not "because feelings".

    Again I'd give him next year (Though my expectations are that he goes at the end of that year as it doesn't go well, but that's just my expectation) but let's not act like it's insane to want someone fired for a team fucking up this badly. There's not alot of historical precedence for a rebuild with this level of investment compared to the league the teams in going this poorly and it all working out.
    we've fielded teams featuring 3-6 youth players throughout most of the year, god knows why people expected more than this, tbh.

    and this has been necessary in order to gut the previous squad which was put together to contend yet was probably the worst in the league.

    you don't build an elite team overnight, no matter how much you spend.

    pep guardiola, likely the best coach ever, spent 174 million pounds in the summer of 2016 and finished 3rd in his first season with an absolutely elite squad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    we've fielded teams featuring 3-6 youth players throughout most of the year, god knows why people expected more than this, tbh.

    and this has been necessary in order to gut the previous squad which was put together to contend yet was probably the worst in the league.

    you don't build an elite team overnight, no matter how much you spend.

    pep guardiola, likely the best coach ever, spent 174 million pounds in the summer of 2016 and finished 3rd in his first season with an absolutely elite squad.
    We're not third, though. We're 4th last. Has anyone ever spent this kind of cash relative to their competition and been in a relegation battle? Who went on to be a big success? The fact that an eliote level 'rebuild' is third and we're fourth last is actually in and of itself damning rather than a defence

    Like I said, I wouldn't fire him. But "because feelings" flies in the face of a reality of a squad that this bad after this much money, players that look uninterested (including your star players taking shots at olimpios because trying to score an actual goal from a corner is less important), overall really awful transfer strategy and just questionable decision making. There's a hell of alot of things beyond 'feelings' at play here. In fact, rationally, it's quite hard to defend this season even if you do consider it a gut job rebuild

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    I don't think we should fire BB but this is the worst take in the thread. People want him fired because we're the highest spending team in the league and we'd be battling relegation in nearly any other league in the world, not "because feelings".

    Again I'd give him next year (Though my expectations are that he goes at the end of that year as it doesn't go well, but that's just my expectation) but let's not act like it's insane to want someone fired for a team fucking up this badly. There's not alot of historical precedence for a rebuild with this level of investment compared to the league the teams in going this poorly and it all working out.

    This spend only stepped onto the field over halfway through the season though...

    I feel like the folks wanting TFC to fire BB, are the same ones who wanted the Leafs to completely blow up the team in May after like their best season ever.

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    I don't think Bob Bradley will be fired.

    I think the team will continue to struggle more than necessary, will be inconsistent, and won't get the most out of their available budget. I agree with the position upgrades that are required, as mentioned above & in the roster thread -- and that will help the coach as well of course. But I'm not sure if they'll find the best available players for those spots.

    We'll see, maybe they'll knock it out of the park on player acquisitions, and they'll somehow manage to keep more of their top players available throughout the season. I really think they need a very mobile, destroyer-type defensive midfielder (and backup) to shield the defense when things aren't going quite the way they hoped. And I think they need to change their defensive tactics, even if they get better CBs and a goalkeeper. But I don't know if the coach (or his son) agree with all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    We're not third, though. We're 4th last. Has anyone ever spent this kind of cash relative to their competition and been in a relegation battle? Who went on to be a big success? The fact that an eliote level 'rebuild' is third and we're fourth last is actually in and of itself damning rather than a defence

    Like I said, I wouldn't fire him. But "because feelings" flies in the face of a reality of a squad that this bad after this much money, players that look uninterested (including your star players taking shots at olimpios because trying to score an actual goal from a corner is less important), overall really awful transfer strategy and just questionable decision making. There's a hell of alot of things beyond 'feelings' at play here. In fact, rationally, it's quite hard to defend this season even if you do consider it a gut job rebuild
    because prem doesnt have DP rules so the elite teams basically have a built in floor due to quality of players. if pep had fielded mostly youth players that year he probably would have been 15-17th.

    the squad we have had for 60%+ of the season was probably the worst in the league, due to the fact that we previously had possibly the worst constructed roster in the league which needed tearing down (which i think we all agreed).

    and now we have a decent first XI but no depth (hence being in a full rebuild). the 10 games or so after the good players arrived and we were still in contention we looked very competitive and would have probably won 7 of the games with a decent gk.

    montreal are in their 3rd year with the same coach having not had to undergo the same level of squad deconstruction, and having a first round exit + 10th placed finish in previous years, so bad comparison.

    this season really was the result of ali curtis (and tim B) building up a squad that was not fit for purpose that needed to be completely torn down, and you cant just add 20 new signings in one window, takes time to build a good team.

    could bob have done better this year?

    maybe, but we also had very bad luck on top of this with salcedo family health issues, oso missing a bunch of games at key points, bono having the worst run of his career at a key point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
    This spend only stepped onto the field over halfway through the season though...

    I feel like the folks wanting TFC to fire BB, are the same ones who wanted the Leafs to completely blow up the team in May after like their best season ever.
    i dunno how you can look at all the top teams in the league having systems and squads built by managers and GMs over a number of years (mtl, lafc, philly) and decide that we should fire our coach one year into a rebuild that has seen us field half a team of kids more often than not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    i dunno how you can look at all the top teams in the league having systems and squads built by managers and GMs over a number of years (mtl, lafc, philly) and decide that we should fire our coach one year into a rebuild that has seen us field half a team of kids more often than not.
    Firing is premature. Concern about his willingness to adapt IN GAME to what is happening (playing a back three a handful of times early in the season to try it is hardly tactical flexibility), his willingness to force youngsters into new roles under pressure and the defensive performance (Shane O'Neill was a significant player for Seattle with lots of Euro experience; Mavinga didn't really come back; McNaughton was a good backup but overhyped)....

    I mean, lots of things didn't work during a rebuild year. But they were still his choices. He was okay with Salcedo and Mavinga as our main pair, despite both having histories of flighty behavior and pay. He was okay with Bono; he could've bought out his last year and signed someone else, as the team's not exactly light on money.

    I get the argument that they don't want to rush it, but if almost felt like they spent a year experimenting rather than even attempting to field competitive teams. We lost Shaff for what appears to be no good reason, we badly overpaid for Kaye. We still lack most of the pieces from two years ago that we've been missing: a goal threat, a centre half line leader, a strong goalie, a defensive midfield.

    So, yeah, suggesting the guy be fired is premature. But if by the midpoint of next season, with three transfer windows behind him, we aren't competing? He should be fired, end of fucking story. This isn't Philadelphia, where they're doing it all on the cheap, developing youth players and giving Jim Curtin a decade-long plan to do it; TFC is going to spend something close to $40M next season, the same as a Mexican league club.

    I don't get "fire them all!" but I also don't get "no worries, we're still rebuilding." There was a lot from his performance, and that of his staff and the players, for fans to worry about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Firing is premature. Concern about his willingness to adapt IN GAME to what is happening (playing a back three a handful of times early in the season to try it is hardly tactical flexibility), his willingness to force youngsters into new roles under pressure and the defensive performance (Shane O'Neill was a significant player for Seattle with lots of Euro experience; Mavinga didn't really come back; McNaughton was a good backup but overhyped)....

    I mean, lots of things didn't work during a rebuild year. But they were still his choices. He was okay with Salcedo and Mavinga as our main pair, despite both having histories of flighty behavior and pay. He was okay with Bono; he could've bought out his last year and signed someone else, as the team's not exactly light on money.

    I get the argument that they don't want to rush it, but if almost felt like they spent a year experimenting rather than even attempting to field competitive teams. We lost Shaff for what appears to be no good reason, we badly overpaid for Kaye. We still lack most of the pieces from two years ago that we've been missing: a goal threat, a centre half line leader, a strong goalie, a defensive midfield.

    So, yeah, suggesting the guy be fired is premature. But if by the midpoint of next season, with three transfer windows behind him, we aren't competing? He should be fired, end of fucking story. This isn't Philadelphia, where they're doing it all on the cheap, developing youth players and giving Jim Curtin a decade-long plan to do it; TFC is going to spend something close to $40M next season, the same as a Mexican league club.

    I don't get "fire them all!" but I also don't get "no worries, we're still rebuilding." There was a lot from his performance, and that of his staff and the players, for fans to worry about.
    i genuinely am not worried.

    if oso had played 30 games this year and westberg had stayed fit we'd probably be in the playoffs now, despite everything (we have only 1 win with oso out of the lineup out of 10+ games).

    we played 3-4-3, 4-4-2, 4-4-3, plus a bunch of different variations to accommodate pozuelo. we also moved insigne inside a couple times with oso out in order to have ball progression in the middle.

    his tactical inflexibility is a myth, or at very least wildly overstated.

    with bernardeschi and insigne on the team, we need to be doing everything we can to get the current squad reps in a 4-3-3, as its the best formation by far for a team with elite wide players.

    of course, to be successful you need CBs who can defend space, and neither of our forwards can play in a 4-3-3 successfully.

    there can be lots of questions in the future if:

    a) we don't bring in a top MLS gk, 2 new CBs who can cover open space, a DP striker, 1-3 Cms (depending on oso situation)
    b) we do most of the above and are not challenging at the top.

    if next year we are competing for a playoff spot or out of the picture, there will be a huge shakeup.

    however, i don't think that transfer window is unrealistic for a winter, especially with all of the great free agents available.

    and i also can't see us outside the top 3 of a weak east if we have a half decent window and address our inadequacies.

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    Yeah, I don’t care how early it is. When you see enough warning signs flash on the board, it’s more risky to proceed than to stay the course. The early track record here is bad:

    - Jettisoning players who have caught on elsewhere and been assets to the teams we traded them to. Getting substantially nothing in return and in certain cases picking up a chunk of their salaries while they play elsewhere.
    - Completely misjudging what the academy players were capable of when it should have been obvious from the outset.
    - Paying a million dollars plus a prospect for a player who arrived inured and when healthy might actually not be what we need. The same player also has an anchor of a contract.
    - Using a young money spot on a player coming off knee surgery who has potted a total of 2 goals in 1200 minutes and generally looks terrible
    - Signing a striker who by all means appears useful but doesn’t play your our style.
    - Using a DP spot on an okay central defender and being bullshit lucky we got to back out of before it got stuck on our books.

    So yeah. I’d fire him. Before that list above grows into something that can’t be fixed before LI is done his best years and we wasted a monumental opportunity.

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    "It should have been obvious" is really doing a lot of heavy lifting in many of these posts.


    The only obvious thing I can think of is it should have been obvious that JJ would falter once he hit June after playing since August of last year & the Serie A players were always going to struggle as soon as they started flying long distances.

    The rest...all of it..is hindsight or things we knew were going to happen (Bono, Mavinga brain farts).

    We have needs - they better get fixed this offseason. If not, that's on BB.

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    BTW, we couldn't buy out Bono because we bought out Jozy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    "It should have been obvious" is really doing a lot of heavy lifting in many of these posts.


    The only obvious thing I can think of is it should have been obvious that JJ would falter once he hit June after playing since August of last year & the Serie A players were always going to struggle as soon as they started flying long distances.

    The rest...all of it..is hindsight or things we knew were going to happen (Bono, Mavinga brain farts).

    We have needs - they better get fixed this offseason. If not, that's on BB.
    some people really think it's just as easy as FM - kind of tells you the actual thought going through it.

    The 'obvious' things are things we couldn't fix because of the byzantine rules of MLS. We cannot cheat the system and even in FM it doesn't work like that. We couldn't just 'find another GK'. All the players who left aren't doing very well in other systems either. The youth team JUST got their first year under Bradley and we're starting to see under the hood and the poor practices of the org structure. That takes time to fix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    some people really think it's just as easy as FM - kind of tells you the actual thought going through it.

    The 'obvious' things are things we couldn't fix because of the byzantine rules of MLS. We cannot cheat the system and even in FM it doesn't work like that. We couldn't just 'find another GK'. All the players who left aren't doing very well in other systems either. The youth team JUST got their first year under Bradley and we're starting to see under the hood and the poor practices of the org structure. That takes time to fix.
    You're behaving like these are new problems. All of these shortcomings existed before Bradley, before Perez, before Armas. They've existed since 2018. We need a goalie. We need a line leading central defender. We need a defensive midfielder.

    They couldn't find a new keeper in four years? They couldn't bench him this year and sign one of the dozens and dozens of professional keepers who are free agents at the end of the Euro and Asian seasons?

    They believed they could get Bono into competitive shape and he has NEVER been good, not since 2017 when he had an iron wall defense in front of him.

    He's averaged 2 goals per game EVERY YEAR.

    So he should've been job one.

    "Starting to see under the hood"? We've had youth teams for over a decade and they've produced very little compared to other clubs. Again, not new. At least they've brought in good management at TFC II, because this is the first year they've actually looked competitive.

    I don't disagree that expecting one guy to fix it all THIS YEAR is unrealistic. But he is not the only person there, and the problems didn't change.

    The single biggest error they made this year wasn't the decision to play youth. That didn't help. But it wasn't the real problem, because we were in the top third in goal scored and only ONE of those youth was involved in the defense.

    It was putting Alex Bono back in net. He cost us, easily, fifteen points this year.

    The second biggest error was signing Carlos Salcedo to the biggest defender DP deal in league history because Manning was his club's president as a youth.

    He flamed out at Frankfurt, he flamed out repeatedly in the Mexican league, and in each case, it was the same kind of weird "sometimes brilliant, sometimes terrible" defending that would make calls for a match-fixing investigation pretty popular, if anyone ever wanted that type of attention.

    Either way, those two moves, in isolation, meant this season was a total write-off. And they both occurred AFTER we hired Bob. I'm not saying he thought they were great ideas; both REEK of old management wanting to prove themselves.

    But the fact is our biggest impediments this year had nothing to do with rebuilding, and everything to do with not being willing to let go of the past.

    In Bradley's defense, I smell Manning's hands all over some of these decisions, as if internal politics are playing a bigger role than they should. Bradley has always liked giving youth a chance to prove themselves. He has never, to my knowledge, started a team with this much inexperience in it, even at Chivas USA, which was a newly built team.

    One more transfer window should be enough. Then he's had three windows to address the two most GLARING problems with this team.

    We averaged two goals a game against in EVERY SEASON Bono has played since 2018. We also have never replaced Drew Moor. That's it. That's our chances of the playoffs gone in every season, and that's before we even get to the need to have competitive depth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    some people really think it's just as easy as FM - kind of tells you the actual thought going through it.
    Saying "even FM kids could figure out this one tactic won't work" isn't saying it's as easy as playing FM to fix a team. It's saying playing two SLOW central defenders up to the half-line against a fast team is SUICIDE.

    How many times this year did we need to see Thompson or McNaughton beaten for pace on the left side? Football tactics, pretty famously, don't demand trying to pin the other team back constantly, eleven behind the ball. We could've played a counter occasionally, we could have played a deeper front line when we had two inexperienced defenders on the same side.

    This season was a disappointment but it wasn't all on the players, or Manning. I refuse to believe a top coach couldn't have done better than conceding four goals FOUR GAMES IN A ROW, when we were still in the playoff hunt.

    That looked like the team gave up on him.
    Last edited by jloome; 09-20-2022 at 11:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    BTW, we couldn't buy out Bono because we bought out Jozy.
    We didn't need to. We have four open roster slots. If we were willing to sign Greg Ranjitsingh to carry three goalies then never play one, I think we could've made that one Alex Bono.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    You're behaving like these are new problems. All of these shortcomings existed before Bradley, before Perez, before Armas. They've existed since 2018. We need a goalie. We need a line leading central defender. We need a defensive midfielder.

    They couldn't find a new keeper in four years? They couldn't bench him this year and sign one of the dozens and dozens of professional keepers who are free agents at the end of the Euro and Asian seasons?

    They believed they could get Bono into competitive shape and he has NEVER been good, not since 2017 when he had an iron wall defense in front of him.

    He's averaged 2 goals per game EVERY YEAR.

    So he should've been job one.

    "Starting to see under the hood"? We've had youth teams for over a decade and they've produced very little compared to other clubs. Again, not new. At least they've brought in good management at TFC II, because this is the first year they've actually looked competitive.

    I don't disagree that expecting one guy to fix it all THIS YEAR is unrealistic. But he is not the only person there, and the problems didn't change.

    The single biggest error they made this year wasn't the decision to play youth. That didn't help. But it wasn't the real problem, because we were in the top third in goal scored and only ONE of those youth was involved in the defense.

    It was putting Alex Bono back in net. He cost us, easily, fifteen points this year.

    The second biggest error was signing Carlos Salcedo to the biggest defender DP deal in league history because Manning was his club's president as a youth.

    He flamed out at Frankfurt, he flamed out repeatedly in the Mexican league, and in each case, it was the same kind of weird "sometimes brilliant, sometimes terrible" defending that would make calls for a match-fixing investigation pretty popular, if anyone ever wanted that type of attention.

    Either way, those two moves, in isolation, meant this season was a total write-off. And they both occurred AFTER we hired Bob. I'm not saying he thought they were great ideas; both REEK of old management wanting to prove themselves.

    But the fact is our biggest impediments this year had nothing to do with rebuilding, and everything to do with not being willing to let go of the past.

    In Bradley's defense, I smell Manning's hands all over some of these decisions, as if internal politics are playing a bigger role than they should. Bradley has always liked giving youth a chance to prove themselves. He has never, to my knowledge, started a team with this much inexperience in it, even at Chivas USA, which was a newly built team.

    One more transfer window should be enough. Then he's had three windows to address the two most GLARING problems with this team.

    We averaged two goals a game against in EVERY SEASON Bono has played since 2018. We also have never replaced Drew Moor. That's it. That's our chances of the playoffs gone in every season, and that's before we even get to the need to have competitive depth.



    This is either disingenuous or you didn't understand the reference. Saying "even FM kids could figure out this one tactic won't work" isn't saying it's as easy as playing FM to fix a team. It's saying playing two SLOW central defenders up to the half-line against a fast team is SUICIDE.

    How many times this year did we need to see Thompson or McNaughton beaten for pace on the left side? Football tactics, pretty famously, don't demand trying to pin the other team back constantly, eleven behind the ball. We could've played a counter occasionally, we could have played a deeper front line when we had two inexperienced defenders on the same side.

    This season was a disappointment but it wasn't all on the players, or Manning. I refuse to believe a top coach couldn't have done better than conceding four goals FOUR GAMES IN A ROW, when we were still in the playoff hunt.

    That looked like the team gave up on him.
    Totally agree.

    I think it’s fair to discuss opinions on here without judging anyone’s sophistication / intentions. We’re all just a bunch of cranks at the end of the day doing this for fun

    I could be dead wrong in my estimation of Bradley. But I think there’s more than a few things to be concerned about.

    Would like to hear a clearly articulated vision from the club this off-season. This is what we are doing with our youth academy. This is how it’s going to fit into the first team. Here is why we think that’s the right decision. Here is how we’re trying to build the backline and other parts of the roster. This is how we think it’s going to help us. Etc, etc…Admittedly Bob does touch on some of these areas when he talks but it’s only snippets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Totally agree.

    I think it’s fair to discuss opinions on here without judging anyone’s sophistication / intentions. We’re all just a bunch of cranks at the end of the day doing this for fun

    I could be dead wrong in my estimation of Bradley. But I think there’s more than a few things to be concerned about.

    Would like to hear a clearly articulated vision from the club this off-season. This is what we are doing with our youth academy. This is how it’s going to fit into the first team. Here is why we think that’s the right decision. Here is how we’re trying to build the backline and other parts of the roster. This is how we think it’s going to help us. Etc, etc…Admittedly Bob does touch on some of these areas when he talks but it’s only snippets.
    Yeah, I cut that line thirty seconds after the post went up dude, as it seemed unduly harsh. You must've been typing already.

    I share the same concerns.

    I also freely admit that much of this may be poor communication of expectations between the team and the public, as well as BB having to deal with internal pressure we don't see. Who knows how much pressure he gets from Manning based on shit Manning has told the board and others.

    If he's been parroting Ali Curtis' immense, steaming heaps of pseudo-intellectual bullshit for the last four years, I can see him telling Bob we NEED to recoup an investment on Nelsen-JMR-Thompson that matches the public statements of their value, that sort of shit. I can also seem him telling Bob we have to stick by Alex, as he won us a title.

    You know, the kind of naive, myopic, disengaged, witless bullshit that Curtis represented as reality during his entire time.... all under Manning, who played soccer with him when they were younger.

    It does concern me that we also didn't seem cohesive, well-drilled. We seemed to be playing very loose tactically, leaving a lot of decision not up to zonal responsibilities, but the choice of the player in the moment.

    We did not seem to have enough cohesion to our approach for our various team members to be able to predict what each other would be doing. If players can't find open teammates without constantly delaying on the ball, slowing play, slowing movement... ultimately there's something wrong with the tactics or coaching thereof, as none of it is rocket science.
    Last edited by jloome; 09-20-2022 at 12:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Yeah, I cut that line thirty seconds after the post went up dude, as it seemed unduly harsh. You must've been typing already.

    I share the same concerns.

    I also freely admit that much of this may be poor communication of expectations between the team and the public, as well as BB having to deal with internal pressure we don't see. Who knows how much pressure he gets from Manning based on shit Manning has told the board and others.

    If he's been parroting Ali Curtis' immense, steaming heaps of pseudo-intellectual bullshit for the last four years, I can see him telling Bob we NEED to recoup an investment on Nelsen-JMR-Thompson that matches the public statements of their value, that sort of shit. I can also seem him telling Bob we have to stick by Alex, as he won us a title.

    You know, the kind of naive, myopic, disengaged, witless bullshit that Curtis represented as reality during his entire time.... all under Manning, who played soccer with him when they were younger.

    It does concern me that we also didn't seem cohesive, well-drilled. We seemed to be playing very loose tactically, leaving a lot of decision not up to zonal responsibilities, but the choice of the player in the moment.

    We did not seem to have enough cohesion to our approach for our various team members to be able to predict what each other would be doing. If players can't find open teammates without constantly delaying on the ball, slowing play, slowing movement... ultimately there's something wrong with the tactics or coaching thereof, as none of it is rocket science.
    All good. Wasn’t a statement aimed at you or anyone else but just a sober thought on our current collective discontent (my own included).

    To me, our current situation sort of has shades of the bad old days. The most capable manager of the lot leaves (Carver / Vanney), the under qualified patsy fails (Armas/ Curtis, Cummings), and now the executive is running out of time. Enter the outwardly confident personality (Bradley, Preki) who’s prior reputation draws eyes away from the executive seat. It’s a “well if this doesn’t work, this place is just cursed!” sort of message. But… while prior success of the new coach looks good on paper below the surface plenty of fans of old team of said manager feel lucky he’s gone and speak of shortcomings, feeling that he’s yesterdays man.

    Future?: Shit doesn’t go as suspected and inevitably, two big personalities clash. Board steps in and gasses everyone.

    Bob is no Preki and no two situations are the same. But thoughts of dysfunction and that maybe we hired the best candidate who would tolerate working for the president as opposed to the best candidate period. We shall see I guess…

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    MB is the one who has to be fired. He has to be out of the room. Now. The obvious is MB goes upstairs, but other scenarios are possible. If he wants to play, it has to be elsewhere.

    Somebody needs to step in if Bob won't... if Bob won't do it, then they both go.

    Any neutral would laugh at the absurdity of having this setup, regardless of the people involved.

    Bob lost the ability to have sole control over this by having the team perform so poorly. That's how life works.
    Last edited by ensco; 09-20-2022 at 01:16 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    MB is the one who has to be fired. He has to be out of the room. Now. The obvious is MB goes upstairs, but other scenarios are possible. If he wants to play, it has to be elsewhere.

    Somebody needs to step in if Bob won't... if Bob won't do it, then they both go.

    Any neutral would laugh at the absurdity of having this setup, regardless of the people involved.

    Bob lost the ability to have sole control over this by having the team perform so poorly. That's how life works.
    These guys both strike me as hard working and brutally objective. Good things. I don’t think they are trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes but it could be self awareness is not their forte.

    The press conference earlier this year when Bob absolved Michael of coughing up a ball leading to a goal was telling. MB looked very at fault in that replay. But more importantly, answering that question was a political landmine. The right answer was to put MB to the sword regardless of the objective outcome of the play.

    One, because he’s the captain and is held to a higher standard. Two, because if you don’t make it abundantly clearly your kid plays by same rules everyone else does you lose the room. And sometimes that means he’s got to be judged to a harsher standard than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    These guys both strike me as hard working and brutally objective. Good things. I don’t think they are trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes but it could be self awareness is not their forte.

    The press conference earlier this year when Bob absolved Michael of coughing up a ball leading to a goal was telling. MB looked very at fault in that replay. But more importantly, answering that question was a political landmine. The right answer was to put MB to the sword regardless of the objective outcome of the play.

    One, because he’s the captain and is held to a higher standard. Two, because if you don’t make it abundantly clearly your kid plays by same rules everyone else does you lose the room. And sometimes that means he’s got to be judged to a harsher standard than others.
    As someone who was the problem in the room for the first two decades of my life, having a boss who was the owner's son, to put it in business terms, would've engendered automatic and probably permanent suspicion.

    I just can't see it as a healthy relationship. Better to have someone else as captain next year, and then if players have shit they want to raise, they don't have to do so while worrying how the message will be conveyed and discussed.

    Caldwell gave up the armband before he retired, and at 35, common sense says he's not an every game, 90 mins player any more.

    But, as others have mentioned, it might be naive to think any of that is going to change, which is somewhat telling in and of itself.

 

 

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