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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Bob truly committed to his vision and a group of guys, the young players, Bono, and gambled the season on it. He lost the gamble because, I think, the league tipped forward this year. There have always been teams that “successfully” did what TFC did - numerous versions of Dallas come to mind. But you can’t do it anymore. Everybody has proven talent, depth and youth now. One of the three ain’t enough.
    I don’t think it’s been about developing youth but instead about Bradley putting his people in place. If Oso and Kaye were healthy we would be seeing the youth only as fresh legs later in a match.

    I think if we had a dedicated GM in place this would have been a bit of a different situation. For example, we would have kept our two experienced outside backs or we would have replaced them earlier.

    Bradley himself has said that most of the guys who left were already out the door for one reason or another. He’s also said several times that the kids are learning and are not very good yet and that’s to be expected.

    He hasn’t said that his ability to be the coach limits his time as sporting director but that is common sense. You can give people any number of portfolios but it doesn’t extend the hours they have in a day. Actually, I don’t think this will hurt us much once we have an adequate roster in place but until then it has been a real problem and it makes a total rebuild a bit slower/without finesse.

    Bradley was starting Westberg before his injury and Bono has been terrible. Until a few games ago there wasn’t much choice. Since then I can only guess that Westberg has looked terrible in practice or isn’t 100% yet. I would have liked Davidson to ask not only “Are you getting adequate keeping” (Bradley answered something like, “no, not recently”) but also: “you used Westberg to good effect before his injury, why is he not starting?” To be fair Davidson had to ask three times “What is wrong with Osorio” and the answer still wasn’t clear.

  2. #272
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    I’m watching Chicharito’s panenka from last night and all I can think is that would definitely beat Bono every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Spot on brate. Central and Eastern Europe is loaded with players who could come here at a fraction of the cost and are much better, and are hungry.

    For keeper comparisons, Bono is on over $525k US...which is over $650K CDN. Great for him at least. For us, not so much.....
    I look at this pragmatically, not from a football perspective but a business perspective.

    I think you put that accurately, don’t blame Bono for making his salary and he is probably a great guy. But, clearly his weaknesses have been know for a while. (So i will not trash him with specifics). It is unfortunate about Westberg, but if it is correct and he had a rib fracture, you would realize how painful and time consuming it is to fully repair, in particular for a keeper. Anyone with half a brain would know that as soon as this injury was identified, he would be out for 8 weeks.

    Blame senior management for knowing this was an issue and gambling and not having a serviceable 3rd keeper. Betting on Bono was a business risk. Having a third string replacement (let alone a first stringer), well that would make you believe the front office were doing their jobs and not just doing PR, hyping they were dining with Italian football players. (No disrespect intended to Italian football players, also go for a free lunch…LOL)

    EDIT - if our third was not good enough, we had more than enough money for a back up with all the GAM/TAM/FAM and JAM we saved

    This should have been a cakewalk to the playoffs.
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 09-05-2022 at 09:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I look at this pragmatically, not from a football perspective but a business perspective.

    I think you put that accurately, don’t blame Bono for making his salary and he is probably a great guy. But, clearly his weaknesses have been know for a while. (So i will not trash him with specifics). It is unfortunate about Westberg, but if it is correct and he had a rib fracture, you would realize how painful and time consuming it is to fully repair, in particular for a keeper. Anyone with half a brain would know that as soon as this injury was identified, he would be out for 8 weeks.

    Blame senior management for knowing this was an issue and gambling and not having a serviceable 3rd keeper. Betting on Bono was a business risk. Having a third string replacement (let alone a first stringer), well that would make you believe the front office were doing their jobs and not just doing PR, hyping they were dining with Italian football players. (No disrespect intended to Italian football players, also go for a free lunch…LOL)

    This should have been a cakewalk to the playoffs.

    The only way the contract for Rajitsingh makes sense is if the team knows they have a trade almost done for one of Bono/Westberg.....likely Bono. I still maintain there was a trade ready to go & something went wrong at the last moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The only way the contract for Rajitsingh makes sense is if the team knows they have a trade almost done for one of Bono/Westberg.....likely Bono. I still maintain there was a trade ready to go & something went wrong at the last moment.
    Fair, but what is your back up then. You have spent $20MM+ getting your DPs, you come out and say you are making a run. It has been clear for at least four weeks that Westberg is not available and Bono is not even close to being in form. The FO gambled and lost.

    Edit: Not being an ass, but give me one transaction other than the DPs, that went well or was ingenious. With all due respect and I love it, Richie fell in our lap. Poz could have played one more game with us or stayed (make him finish his contract and Belotti wasn’t happening), they knew Salcedo was going and so it wouldn’t impact the Bernie acquisition. They admitted that MAK came with an issue but still gave the truckload. I dont like crapping on someone when they are down but we really need to expect more from these guys, or we are just the football version of the Maple Leafs.

    No Champions League, no Playoffs (thank god there is a World Cup)
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 09-05-2022 at 09:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The only way the contract for Rajitsingh makes sense is if the team knows they have a trade almost done for one of Bono/Westberg.....likely Bono. I still maintain there was a trade ready to go & something went wrong at the last moment.
    Notwithstanding all his recent blunders, who would trade for Bono? Has a massive contract (relative to other keepers) and all his deficiencies like ball distribution, inability to command the box, vision? issues on long range shots are well known.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I look at this pragmatically, not from a football perspective but a business perspective.

    I think you put that accurately, don’t blame Bono for making his salary and he is probably a great guy. But, clearly his weaknesses have been know for a while. (So i will not trash him with specifics). It is unfortunate about Westberg, but if it is correct and he had a rib fracture, you would realize how painful and time consuming it is to fully repair, in particular for a keeper. Anyone with half a brain would know that as soon as this injury was identified, he would be out for 8 weeks.

    Blame senior management for knowing this was an issue and gambling and not having a serviceable 3rd keeper. Betting on Bono was a business risk. Having a third string replacement (let alone a first stringer), well that would make you believe the front office were doing their jobs and not just doing PR, hyping they were dining with Italian football players. (No disrespect intended to Italian football players, also go for a free lunch…LOL)

    EDIT - if our third was not good enough, we had more than enough money for a back up with all the GAM/TAM/FAM and JAM we saved

    This should have been a cakewalk to the playoffs.
    Fully agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Whoever signed Bono to a 5 year contract should be exiled to Columbus.
    I do think Bez would have recognized the mistake and found a remedy. People should know what Bono is at this point when they come in to the team and have a plan to address the position if they are in charge. I get that it is an unmovable contract but we have eaten worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gringo Starr View Post
    I do think Bez would have recognized the mistake and found a remedy. People should know what Bono is at this point when they come in to the team and have a plan to address the position if they are in charge. I get that it is an unmovable contract but we have eaten worse.
    Definitely. And he then won it all with Columbus as well. Doing more with less.

    And even plucked one of our academy kids who we had no use for, and he burned us this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gringo Starr View Post
    I do think Bez would have recognized the mistake and found a remedy. People should know what Bono is at this point when they come in to the team and have a plan to address the position if they are in charge. I get that it is an unmovable contract but we have eaten worse.
    Haven’t we used the buyout option every year? Seems like we’ve always had even worse contracts to remedy and no trade options due to Bono’s bloated cost. As much as I like some of Bez’s acquisitions, he also made just as many blunders that have reverberated for years after his departure. Add Curtis on that and you have a nightmare that takes years to unravel.

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    About the formation change called for on this forum: While I’d like to see three at the back, I don’t think two at the front will help. If you look at the scoring we’re currently getting from the two outside in wingers and the two backs abilities to get forward (and often forward and in), I don’t think two cold strikers who have shown no promise of playing well together is going to be an improvement overall.

    I’m not saying there couldn’t be a formation change but what that would be with the current roster isn’t clear to me. I’d be interested to know what others think. What formation and with who.

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    Results speak. You'd need to perform Olympic worthy mental gymnastics to explain results pre Bez -> Results with Bez -> Results since Bez with any explanation other than he's the only competent GM we've ever had. Not a perfect one, nobody is, not one whose never made a mistake, nobody doesn't make mistakes, but the only one who got alot more right than he got wrong.

    Back to the game, this seasons a write off but definitely remain very unconvinced by upper management and Bob Bradley. I'd still keep him and give him another season because we simply will not find someone else with his pedigree, but if he didn't have that background and was only judged by what we've seen so far there'd be a good argument to not bring him back next year. Again, I'd give him the full season, but so far it's not good. This is a poor team with some ludicrous talent dragging it into something respectable, and that talent is almost a cheat since almost no other team in the league could shop for those kind of signings. Nothing about that is a credit to management. The management has been poor, and the open chequebook has somewhat salvaged it and made those poor decisions look a little less poor. I just hope there's a grand vision that isn't obvious to everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post

    And even plucked one of our academy kids who we had no use for, and he burned us this year.
    Except that's not what happened. Read about how that went down. We had his homegrown rights only, which we traded. He was in Columbus already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Results speak. You'd need to perform Olympic worthy mental gymnastics to explain results pre Bez -> Results with Bez -> Results since Bez with any explanation other than he's the only competent GM we've ever had. Not a perfect one, nobody is, not one whose never made a mistake, nobody doesn't make mistakes, but the only one who got alot more right than he got wrong.

    Back to the game, this seasons a write off but definitely remain very unconvinced by upper management and Bob Bradley. I'd still keep him and give him another season because we simply will not find someone else with his pedigree, but if he didn't have that background and was only judged by what we've seen so far there'd be a good argument to not bring him back next year. Again, I'd give him the full season, but so far it's not good. This is a poor team with some ludicrous talent dragging it into something respectable, and that talent is almost a cheat since almost no other team in the league could shop for those kind of signings. Nothing about that is a credit to management. The management has been poor, and the open chequebook has somewhat salvaged it and made those poor decisions look a little less poor. I just hope there's a grand vision that isn't obvious to everyone else.
    Well said, as usual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Except that's not what happened. Read about how that went down. We had his homegrown rights only, which we traded. He was in Columbus already.
    No, that IS what happened. Bob was asked about this at an availability. Russel-Rowe was offered to us first, and we turned him down. Bob turned him down. He confirmed that at a post-game presser. THEN when Columbus wanted him we traded his rights.

    So it’s not correct to say he was already gone. We told him he was better of trying his luck via college. He went to college, improved (albeit his numbers weren’t great). He left college unsigned after two years and we held his rights.

    But he DID try to come back to TFC at that point first. We turned him down.

    It was just a bad decision.

    Now, how bad is another matter. He tore MLS NEXT PRO apart, but he was pretty quiet with the first team past a couple of early performances and ended up playing for Columbus II again at the end of the year, having gone goalless with the Crew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Whoever signed Bono to a 5 year contract should be exiled to Columbus.
    Fair enough, although Bez did win an MLS cup there. Even the best GM has some bad signings. We just seem to have more. We still haven't recovered from the Curtis era.

    Am I wrong here or does it seem that former TFC managers and coaches never get another gig after being fired by TFC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    One area that needs a makeover is scouting, which is abysmal. Signing Italian NT players on DP contracts is a no Brainer. What TFC hasn't been able to do in recent years is sign quality foreign players on relatively inexpensive contracts I.e. Victor Vasquez.

    There are MLS quality players in Central and Eastern Europe playing on relatively low contracts that TFC should pursue. Portland's keeper Ivacic is only on $248K per season, less than half Bono's salary. Petrovic from NER, who stoned TFC twice, is only on $225K. Instead we sign garbage like Erickson Gallardo. Which scout recommended that signing? Did anyone from TFC ever even watch him play?

    What has hurt TFC more than anything else is our inability to round out our roster with starting quality players on relatively low contracts.
    Oddly enough, Gallardo has been playing very well with his team. The knock on him was his defending, but he wouldn't be asked to do that in BBs system anyway. Since the wingers barely help in defending anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Fair enough, although Bez did win an MLS cup there. Even the best GM has some bad signings. We just seem to have more. We still haven't recovered from the Curtis era.

    Am I wrong here or does it seem that former TFC managers and coaches never get another gig after being fired by TFC.
    What ever happened to Perez, actually wanted the team to keep him. Personally think he's a better coach than BB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    Results speak. You'd need to perform Olympic worthy mental gymnastics to explain results pre Bez -> Results with Bez -> Results since Bez with any explanation other than he's the only competent GM we've ever had. Not a perfect one, nobody is, not one whose never made a mistake, nobody doesn't make mistakes, but the only one who got alot more right than he got wrong.

    Back to the game, this seasons a write off but definitely remain very unconvinced by upper management and Bob Bradley. I'd still keep him and give him another season because we simply will not find someone else with his pedigree, but if he didn't have that background and was only judged by what we've seen so far there'd be a good argument to not bring him back next year. Again, I'd give him the full season, but so far it's not good. This is a poor team with some ludicrous talent dragging it into something respectable, and that talent is almost a cheat since almost no other team in the league could shop for those kind of signings. Nothing about that is a credit to management. The management has been poor, and the open chequebook has somewhat salvaged it and made those poor decisions look a little less poor. I just hope there's a grand vision that isn't obvious to everyone else.
    Well said.

    I just don't know how Manning continues to escape any accountability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Well said.

    I just don't know how Manning continues to escape any accountability.
    The same way Brendan Shanahan does. MLSE doesn't demand excellence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhandsome90 View Post
    What ever happened to Perez, actually wanted the team to keep him. Personally think he's a better coach than BB.
    My thoughts, he was really good. And yes, much better than BB. Has a great pedigree coming from the best club in the world, Real Madrid.

    What do I think happened? My two cents, he was the first coach with the cojones to sit down Mike. Coincidentally we played some real good football. Mike was seething and went upstairs to Manning and that was it for Perez. The plan then was to bring in BB. Mike extends his stay here more years as an undisputed starter, untouchable actually, dad gets full control here, and here we are. And BB knows he has full reigns to do whatever he wants now for at least end of next year, so didn't care if we made the playoffs or not this year. Sorry to be harsh, but no manager does the kind of stuff BB has done this year, some real head scratching decisions, without knowing he has full backing from Manning and no fear of losing his job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    The same way Brendan Shanahan does. MLSE doesn't demand excellence.
    Agreed. The seats are filled anyways. Win/lose/draw. Imagine being the market we are in and about to miss the playoffs 3rd time out of 5. Heads would roll anywhere else.

    We should model ourselves after Portland, a first class organization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    We should model ourselves after Portland, a first class organization.
    Um, the Thorns would beg to differ with you.

    Regardless, got back from camping and watched the game and realized our defense and keeping are simply not good enough. You could see the dread in the players eyes after that first goal. My son in keeper school was taught if you can't catch it, then parry it away to the sides or into touch. Bono is even losing the fundamentals. On the second goal, sure, Criscito should have closed down more, but Bono should have parried that. The players all just deflated after that.

    The only reason I can see Bono still starting is that there is nobody else ready. Bono is not in a good headspace as he knows he isn't playing well enough and keeps getting trotted out, is probably stressed that he knows he's going to make a mistake every game, makes the mistake and increases his stress. After this last game, he desperately needs a reset and a talk with a sports therapist. The goalkeeper coach should know this and be making recommendations to the head coach as how to help his charges. Conway simply does not have that ability and it's been apparent for the last 5 years at least.

    Somehow... somehow... for over 10 years he has managed to navigate all the coaching changes that has replaced every coaching position multiple times except for his. I don't think any other keeper coach has his longevity in the position. Conway is being protected by someone very powerful in the MLSE hierarchy. There should be no reason why he is still with the club. We need a keeper coach who can actually help his keepers through these stretches with techniques, tactics, and advice. It is apparent that Conway provides none of these, yet he somehow ghosts through the TFC organization and is never put under the microscope. I would love one of the journos to ask that question to Manning or BB - "Why is Jon Conway still the GK coach at TFC?" Just to see what they say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokecell View Post
    I’m watching Chicharito’s panenka from last night and all I can think is that would definitely beat Bono every time.
    That is the one laugh I have had whilst reading this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Fair enough, although Bez did win an MLS cup there. Even the best GM has some bad signings. We just seem to have more. We still haven't recovered from the Curtis era.

    Am I wrong here or does it seem that former TFC managers and coaches never get another gig after being fired by TFC.
    As far as we know, Mo Johnston never found another gig as a coach/manager, nor Paul Mariner, nor Ryan Nelson.
    John Carver worked again in England, but in a couple of interim positions, then in Cyprus for a little over a year.
    Chris Armas became an assistant coach with Manchester United (!)
    Preki disappeared and was a meme for a while ("where is Preki?") but now is an assistant with Seattle.
    Chris Cummins was an assistant at Reading, but now is coach at a semi-pro club in England.
    Nick Dasovic is coaching with the Whitecaps academy.
    Aron Winter was an assistant at Ajax, and now an assistant with the Greek National Team

    So it's mixed, but none of them became first team head coaches again with fully professional clubs.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-05-2022 at 02:42 PM.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Um, the Thorns would beg to differ with you.

    Regardless, got back from camping and watched the game and realized our defense and keeping are simply not good enough. You could see the dread in the players eyes after that first goal. My son in keeper school was taught if you can't catch it, then parry it away to the sides or into touch. Bono is even losing the fundamentals. On the second goal, sure, Criscito should have closed down more, but Bono should have parried that. The players all just deflated after that.

    The only reason I can see Bono still starting is that there is nobody else ready. Bono is not in a good headspace as he knows he isn't playing well enough and keeps getting trotted out, is probably stressed that he knows he's going to make a mistake every game, makes the mistake and increases his stress. After this last game, he desperately needs a reset and a talk with a sports therapist. The goalkeeper coach should know this and be making recommendations to the head coach as how to help his charges. Conway simply does not have that ability and it's been apparent for the last 5 years at least.

    Somehow... somehow... for over 10 years he has managed to navigate all the coaching changes that has replaced every coaching position multiple times except for his. I don't think any other keeper coach has his longevity in the position. Conway is being protected by someone very powerful in the MLSE hierarchy. There should be no reason why he is still with the club. We need a keeper coach who can actually help his keepers through these stretches with techniques, tactics, and advice. It is apparent that Conway provides none of these, yet he somehow ghosts through the TFC organization and is never put under the microscope. I would love one of the journos to ask that question to Manning or BB - "Why is Jon Conway still the GK coach at TFC?" Just to see what they say.

    Would be but you wouldn't get an answer. Is Conway perhaps related to someone on MLSE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    As far as we know, Mo Johnston never found another gig as a coach/manager, nor Paul Mariner, nor Ryan Nelson.
    John Carver worked again in England, but in a couple of interim positions, then in Cyprus for a little over a year.
    Chris Armas became an assistant coach with Manchester United (!)
    Preki disappeared and was a meme for a while ("where is Preki?") but now is an assistant with Seattle.
    Chris Cummins was an assistant at Reading, but now is coach at a semi-pro club in England.
    Nick Dasovic is coaching with the Whitecaps academy.
    Aron Winter was an assistant at Ajax, and now an assistant with the Greek National Team

    So it's mixed, but none of them became first team head coaches again with fully professional clubs.
    Is Dasovic also with the CDN NT in some capactity? Could have sworn I saw him on the bench recently?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokecell View Post
    I’m watching Chicharito’s panenka from last night and all I can think is that would definitely beat Bono every time.
    https://twitter.com/MLS/status/15666...om%2Fsoccer%2F

    Once I saw the video, yes you are right...lol.

    To add context, LA is is in 8th place and desperate for points and lost two right there...lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Is Dasovic also with the CDN NT in some capactity? Could have sworn I saw him on the bench recently?
    Not currently. He used to coach some of the youth teams. Are you thinking of Mauro Biello by any chance? He looks somewhat similar in appearance.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Not currently. He used to coach some of the youth teams. Are you thinking of Mauro Biello by any chance? He looks somewhat similar in appearance.

    Hmm..might be.

 

 

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