I will stand up and still say i was a Vanney change person. Never in a million years did I think Armas was the train wreck coming that he was but I like BB and the direction we are going. It just has taken so long… Still joking about it and not planning it but I am looking forward to MLS Cup in LA vs. LAFC. With a full squad, only team that scares me is Philly. This is the week that determines everything.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I see Vanney coming back to Toronto after the inevitable NT stint with somebody - give it about 9 years from now. (I still think he does the 2030 WC for the US)
I like this prediction. Although I think Jesse Marsch will have a big mandate when he inevitably gets that position, and I don’t think he gets to the USMNT until at least 2025… also watch Ancelotti lurking in Vancouver…
Also I would have said Greg is BB's successor as President.
Last edited by ensco; 08-29-2022 at 06:51 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I didn’t see the match either but LI in the hole when Osorio and MAK are out sounds a good idea. It seems BB did make adjustments earlier in the season but the younger players weren’t capable of them. Also, I wasn’t capable of watching, hah, because we were so lamentably bad.
But certain things seem a given with BB. The adaptability will, to some degree, come from fluidity of attack… don’t think we’re going to see that enough until next season.
Reading the Molinaro Vanney interview, it sounds like the real sticking point was how the future was going to look - Curtis had his ideas & Vanney didn't see it being doable to the standard & in the way he would have preferred.
Bob has actually used a bunch of formations this year based on the players we've had available.
Yes, but he’s been pretty stuck to the 4-3-3 for a while now (and the idea of two wingers and a striker up top all year).
I don’t think BB needs to have a full bag of formations to turn to. That being said, it would definitely be negligent not to develop an alternative by next year’s playoffs. That doesn’t necessarily need to be a formation, but more a way of playing like bringing Lorenzo inside last match.
Two major risks that make this necessary: (1) Club’s setting up to shut down our primary strategies and (2) injuries to key players which shut down our primary strategies.
If the following statement is not a 'fake quote' and actually attributable to him... then how could such a good mister be so wrong?
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/CR7prime__/status/1564261494317264900
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 08-30-2022 at 08:20 AM.
BB has changed formations from match to match historically, eg. @ LAFC and even with TFC.
I think during matches he has adopted the 'Mancini Template' for now.
It seems to align with his own thoughts, style and intentions for TFC footy.
For me, that is a 'fluid' 4-3-3...
That may tactically morph during match play into spurts of a mid hold/press of 2-5-3, a defensive shell of 4-5-1, and even a counter attack 2-3-5.
Still I have no idea of what this was during the Charlotte FC game...
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/Total_TFC/status/1564050848740687872
I guess this is sort of revisiting the past but my take was, Vanney was mostly a good coach but the guy was incredibly short termist.
Have a young guy with promise on the bench? Well he gets one chance at spot minutes and if he’s not flawless, you won’t see him again for 3 months. That’s why we had an excess of Nick DeLeon types on the roster. 6/10 performances, tactically over-do games. Don’t think about rest-recovery or managing minutes. The immediate task was all that mattered, win the next game, the next thing (i.e. push for a supporters shield with guys on crutches rather than rest and make a real playoff run)
I think we got what we needed out of him and it was time to move on. We just chose the wrong people and had the wrong plan after the fact.
Last edited by ag futbol; 08-30-2022 at 08:51 AM.
Vanney to me was less short-termist than he was about knowing what he was going to get out of a guy. It has its merits.
The guys who puts in the consistent 6/10 performances in this league are valuable because they understand their limitations and play the game as tactically intended. These two things mean players make less mistakes and other players are more prepared for the mistakes that do happen.
Players who try to push the limits of their ability on the pitch and aren’t as tactically disciplined tend to make mistakes that are riskier/higher impact.
Vanney felt like the kind of coach that wanted his players to know where the ball would go next even when they were brain dead exhausted. That’s why he valued the 6/10 guys and that’s why he’d sometimes rather play a guy on crutches than a kid who’d never touched the pitch in MLS.
At least that’s my theory.
That’s my sense of it, as well.
Interestingly, with Vanney and Bradley we’ve had opposite approaches. Earlier in the season Bradley needed a certain type of player to fit his conception of the football be wants to play and he choose the players that, in theory, might play that way. But in fact they were not ready to start, or even, maybe ever to play those roles. I can’t imagine Vanney making those choices.
Both have a strong sense of the football they want to play but different ways to get there. Also, Vanney came in under the gun needing to win right away whereas Bob clearly has carte blanche to tear down and lose.
I get it. Maybe I’m just a little jaded by the worse years with Vanney as opposed to the better ones.
My memory is something as follow: season is shot. Nick DeLeon et al aren’t going to win you the game with 6/10 performances. No downside to trying young players. Who plays? Nick DeLeon.
And by no means is this an endorsement of the youth talent we had at the time (far from it). But there are certain circumstances where average will never be enough (or accomplishes nothing) and risk taking is what’s needed.
Fair enough. I’m sure the lean years before Vanney helped me to overlook the poor years he had.
I’d say both managers, in their different ways, are ‘loyalty’ men. They get what they need from their players based on a certain devotion and attitude. Not true of every coach in this league, for sure.
In Vanney’s defence, Deleon despite being a career 6/10er fought like hell for us and even scored some brilliant and timely goals.
Also, he was being misused in DC but not here. Vanney was poor with relying on internal youth but excellent in seeing the qualities in players being poorly used elsewhere. See young Delgado and young Layrea.
I think Vanney didn’t bring in his players in order to sit them when things were not going well. Partly he got what he got out of them by sticking with them.
Last edited by los sonadores; 08-30-2022 at 05:14 PM.
With winning this game we can replace the playoff spot sides so we'll need to continue what the designated players brought forth. If Osario and essentially Bono are playing, you can argue that if the designated players continue, theres a good chance that the others can contribute too to make it more whole. This game can be pivitol to see if we replace a playoff spot sort of how they all are in this resepct.
Maybe some of the differences in style between the two are socio-cultural. Vanney is a younger middle American dude who played in LA and France, he’s a bit more mild mannered and flexible. Bradley is a tough New Jersey-ite fighter of an earlier generation. Both intelligent guys though and both want to “play football” but very different minds/temperaments.
Any news on the Osorio and MAK fronts? We could really use both of them.
Both trained today but away from the main group. Molinaro has them as "questionable".
Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro/status/1564664651333472257
^^^ Keep your cards close to your vest. Keep the enemy thinking. Don't make it easy for them. Preparing for Oso and MAK in the midfield is different from preparing for Nelson and Kerr ...
Expect a large crowd tonight.....the Ex games always have been a big draw & the resale market is high for this one.