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  1. #1801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    If someone told me 8 or 9 years ago that some TFC supporters would be critical of a 28 year old Juventus player coming to this club I would of laughed real hard, I am laughing real hard now at the negativity towards Bernardeschi ,
    So, just to be clear, if we were to have Belotti on the table right now, you’d say we are all stupid and clearly bernardeschi should be our guy cause he’d have a bigger impact?

    Cause that’s basically what you’re arguing right now taking down peoples comparative disappointment in bernardeschi vs some of the other names rumoured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    This team doesn’t compete without starting fullbacks. Insigne, Berna, Poz, Oso are all nice, but none address the shambolic backline for the last year and half. If we don’t have a starting pair by the end of the window someone is smoking some good stuff.
    i think its more than starting FBs,last season we had auro, lareya,lawrence,and we were a disaster,the CB play is brutal.mavinga is done

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    being a mediocre player at juve translates pretty well to MLS, as we've seen
    As I said, arguements were laid out a week ago - people can go back & look at them. Not going to get excited about this move, if it happens, and if its a DP, that's a poor move given the options out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    So, just to be clear, if we were to have Belotti on the table right now, you’d say we are all stupid and clearly bernardeschi should be our guy cause he’d have a bigger impact?

    Cause that’s basically what you’re arguing right now taking down peoples comparative disappointment in bernardeschi vs some of the other names rumoured.
    What the hell am I missing here? We just brought in a DP Mexican back and there was praise for Bob Bradley and his wonderful acquisition,

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    ^ which if fair but gotta say …

    Insigne —— Jiminez ——- Bernadeschi

    POZ

    Priso/Bradley —— Osorio


    Is a pretty good start

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    What I worry is the bradley/priso —Osario pair in front of our defence is part of the problem with allowing goals.

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    Based on Singh’s comments, it sounds like Bernadeschi is a good chance assuming we move Salcedo. Also, that Holiett might be the back up plan.

    Mentioned he expects TFC to be active with trades. Who is on the transfer list for TFC? Bono? One of the youth? I’d be happy with an Ayo trade. I think we paid too much for what he offers and I don’t see too much more potential.
    Last edited by Stress; 07-04-2022 at 08:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick.mastro View Post
    What I worry is the bradley/priso —Osario pair in front of our defence is part of the problem with allowing goals.
    Ok, you have my permission to sign Tolisso… i thought this window was supposed to be transformational.
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 07-04-2022 at 08:36 PM.

  9. #1809
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick.mastro View Post
    What I worry is the bradley/priso —Osario pair in front of our defence is part of the problem with allowing goals.
    I think if Priso & Osorio had a did run of matches together they could be effective in that role. That's not going to happen for a while though. Maybe next year a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    What the hell am I missing here? We just brought in a DP Mexican back and there was praise for Bob Bradley and his wonderful acquisition,
    I would say the praise was far from universal. If anything it was mildly congratulatory for turning Solteldo’s potential anchor contract into an asset in a position where we were weak. A lot of people pointed out he’s not a very ambitious use of a DP slot.

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    Salcedo at TAM made sense - at DP...that was a stretch. I get it was because of the Soteldo mistake but neither Salcedo nor bernardeschi is worth a DP slot.

    And, again, if somebody could give me a reason why Bernardeschi is a good DP choice beyond "well he played for Juve", please offer it because people who watched him these last few years think he's not that good (and his stats don't come across as all that good either).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I would say the praise was far from universal. If anything it was mildly congratulatory for turning Solteldo’s potential anchor contract into an asset in a position where we were weak. A lot of people pointed out he’s not a very ambitious use of a DP slot.
    Yeah. Pretty sure most of us were quite disappointed when we found out we couldn't buy him down from DP status.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    What the hell am I missing here? We just brought in a DP Mexican back and there was praise for Bob Bradley and his wonderful acquisition,
    To be fair he started playing pretty well for the last month but maybe because he knew he would be returning to Liga MX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Salcedo at TAM made sense - at DP...that was a stretch. I get it was because of the Soteldo mistake but neither Salcedo nor bernardeschi is worth a DP slot.

    And, again, if somebody could give me a reason why Bernardeschi is a good DP choice beyond "well he played for Juve", please offer it because people who watched him these last few years think he's not that good (and his stats don't come across as all that good either).
    I will put my faith in Roberto Mancini’s assessment of Bernardeschi over the “Juventus fans” that post on this site

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    To be fair he started playing pretty well for the last month but maybe because he knew he would be returning to Liga MX.
    That could also coincide with Westberg starting, Mavinga playing more, and just getting more comfortable with the team.
    I really liked Salcedo's enthusiasm and dedication to the team. It sucks that he ended up being a DP. If he was on a max TAM contract, he'd work well for the team, but sadly MLS salary rules don't really allow that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    I will put my faith in Roberto Mancini’s assessment of Bernardeschi over the “Juventus fans” that post on this site
    so you admit you have no clue what you are talking about…. Because you still have not given a reason why he should be a dp outside of where he played

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    I will put my faith in Roberto Mancini’s assessment of Bernardeschi over the “Juventus fans” that post on this site
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    so you admit you have no clue what you are talking about…. Because you still have not given a reason why he should be a dp outside of where he played
    #Goatnardeschi

    I know it is meant to be pejorative but I have decided to 'Native Tongue' it as a mischievous term of endearment.
    TheGoodson, my advice, let it go. Stop getting too riled.
    Section 223 has a viewpoint not shared by you; maybe not many here.
    His style and HH's are not for everyone; thank your lucky stars 'Jack Burns'(?) hasn't joined them on this board!
    Still, I am not sure that means he has no clue about what he is talking about.
    I get Fede is divisive for all sorts of fair reasons. I also think there are valid points to both sides of this acquisition argument.
    On this matter, for now, I prefer the possible signing of Fede as a DP; still, I am open to suggestions.
    Other than Hoilett, enlignten me. Be reasonable now. I have BSBSed this!
    I do not think there are plenty of marquee options with the required cachet; pedigree, experience, potential at that spot.
    On a free!
    I get the better, more pressing, options at other positions on the field argument.
    However, for whatever reason, BB and/or BM may have decided the need to address the right-flank in this manner.
    Despite the negative feedback loop issues Doyle outlines that seem to be compounded by back-line performance.
    So, as of yesterday, sure, I would love Yarmolenko, take Dembele, consider Di Maria and Callejon.
    I'd even go left-field angling and welcome Conner Mahoney.
    Who else though? Realistically.

    In respect to reasons, it has been addressed and answered... reasonably... by others already.

    Quote Originally Posted by nick.mastro View Post
    I don’t understand why a lot of people think Bernadeschi would be a bad signing. He’s 28 (which someone said “why would a 28 year old come to MLS ?”) but Pozeulo came when he was 28. Pozeulo also had only 5 goals on Genk in 28 games the season before we signed him and look how good he turned out. Bernadeschi has 1 goal in 28 games, but played for Juventus not genk, is over 6 ft, won a euro (which he came off the bench many games) and he checks back defensively and is a better playmaker than he is a goal scorer. With Insigne and Jiminez doing the goal scoring, Bernadeschi would be amazing setting the up and helping our defence
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    We dont or at least i do not want Bernadeschi to be a Gio 2.0 (not realistic)... I think we need a pacey winger / wing back that can control the ball, cross and defend. Whether it is Bernadeschi or Junior Hoilett. We have goal scorers now, Poz, Akinola, Jimenez, Insigne even Oso. I got interested because the dinner appeared real, he is 28, free transfer, chip on his shoulder and quite frankly this town wants to be in Serie A. A full stadium is fun... Sign players that are going to take us to the next level…. Bernadeschi at 28, depending on the contract terms might very well be good business.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 07-05-2022 at 07:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    #Goatnardeschi

    I know it is meant to be pejorative but I have decided to 'Native Tongue' it as a mischievous term of endearment.
    TheGoodson, my advice, let it go. Stop getting too riled.
    Section 223 has a viewpoint not shared by you; maybe not many here.
    His style and HH's are not for everyone; thank your lucky stars 'Jack Burns'(?) hasn't joined them on this board!
    Still, I am not sure that means he has no clue about what he is talking about.
    I get Fede is divisive for all sorts of fair reasons. I also think there are valid points to both sides of this acquisition argument.
    On this matter, for now, I prefer the possible signing of Fede as a DP; still, I am open to suggestions.
    Other than Hoilett, enlignten me. Be reasonable now. I have BSBSed this!
    I do not think there are plenty of marquee options with the required cachet; pedigree, experience, potential at that spot.
    On a free!
    I get the better, more pressing, options at other positions on the field argument.
    However, for whatever reason, BB and/or BM may have decided the need to address the right-flank in this manner.
    Despite the negative feedback loop issues Doyle outlines that seem to be compounded by back-line performance.
    So, as of yesterday, sure, I would love Yarmolenko, take Dembele, consider Di Maria and Callejon.
    I'd even go left-field angling and welcome Conner Mahoney.
    Who else though? Realistically.

    In respect to reasons, it has been addressed and answered... reasonably... by others already.
    To provide nothing of substance other than 'you're wrong and I'm right' is not 'style' - it is idiocy, hubris, whatever you want to call it. It has nothing of value other than to prove that the opinion can be easily discarded.

    I've actually been looking at some of the stats/player charts - a left footed winger who is above average in passing and has good vision but is only an average shot generator and has some of the lowest xG numbers in the big five would be questionable.
    Last edited by Yuushalinsky; 07-05-2022 at 07:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    so you admit you have no clue what you are talking about…. Because you still have not given a reason why he should be a dp outside of where he played
    Well my reason would be that there is probably not one actual, current football manager in the world, for any team, who would choose Jr Hoilett(even in his prime) over Bernardechi. So unless you know something that they don’t, then I think it speaks for itself. I’m thankful that any of you who would choose otherwise are not running this team.

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    Current football managers all over the world do not have to deal with MLS salary cap rules-why is that so hard to understand. No one here has said they would have Hoilett as a DP but as a TAM player yes. People are also saying that if a DP spot were to open they would rather see it used on someone other than Bernardechi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TMAN80 View Post
    Well my reason would be that there is probably not one actual, current football manager in the world, for any team, who would choose Jr Hoilett(even in his prime) over Bernardechi. So unless you know something that they don’t, then I think it speaks for itself. I’m thankful that any of you who would choose otherwise are not running this team.
    Gringo has it right. This isn't world football and DP spots are key when dealing with attackers. Choosing Hoilett would mean a TAM deal which would keep that DP spot open for a difference maker. No matter how good Bernardeshi might be in MLS you can't look at his history in football and say he has ever been a difference maker and could guarantee that he would be here.

  23. #1823
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    [moderator mode] OK, it's perfectly fine for someone to state "I don't rate a particular player highly" or "I love that player." It's also fine for people not to be convinced by someone's individual opinion unless they give some reasons for that opinion (e.g. player slowing down, player's statistics like % of tackles won, etc.). Let's be calm in our discussions here. No need to critique individuals expertise or apparent lack of expertise. Stay to the facts about the player and away from personal attacks. You can merely state that you are unconvinced by an individual's opinion without getting more facts about the player. Otherwise some of you are going to have a time out from the board. You know who you are. Thank you. [/moderator mode]


  24. #1824
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMAN80 View Post
    Well my reason would be that there is probably not one actual, current football manager in the world, for any team, who would choose Jr Hoilett(even in his prime) over Bernardechi. So unless you know something that they don’t, then I think it speaks for itself. I’m thankful that any of you who would choose otherwise are not running this team.
    junior hoilett, In his prime in the premier league for four seasons, produced twice the goals and assists of Bernardeschi.

    and he did it on a much weaker team.

    the facts do not support your argument.

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    I think the main difference between Hoilett and Berna for me is that you could probably trust the latter on the wing if you played three at the back.

    There are far worse DP signings to be had in terms of resume and previous play and there are far worse that we have signed. Understand hesitancy, do not understand full on opposition. The bright side of a signing like this is that the player is coveted enough with enough years left that he would have suitors, and would be motivated to leave to regain an Italy place should he not be lighting it up over here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Gringo has it right. This isn't world football and DP spots are key when dealing with attackers. Choosing Hoilett would mean a TAM deal which would keep that DP spot open for a difference maker. No matter how good Bernardeshi might be in MLS you can't look at his history in football and say he has ever been a difference maker and could guarantee that he would be here.
    I guess I wasn’t clear enough, but I fully understand the whole DP implications, I’ve followed the team and league since inception, so I guess what I’m saying is that I think we would be incredibly lucky to even have a chance at him(which to be honest I don’t think will ever happen), and he would fully justify a DP slot(or at least the signing - no guarantee on return). He’s incredibly skilled, and plays at a much higher level than who we currently have(including our current DPs). And even just look at who we’ve had before him as DP players, and you’re upset about having Bernardeschi?

    I honestly just cannot understand. I feel like everyone wants to pretend to “see” or “know” something that everyone else can’t, and are way over thinking this. If top managers around the world on top teams would have this guy, but you somehow can’t project him to be a top player here as a “DP” worthy player, than there is no point in going on with this debate - much like the “Poz is the problem one”.

    Last note - on the radar, short of Bellotti, who else is/was there? Who are you counting on coming in for a DP that will “100% be successful”. And more of a guarantee than anyone else? Because everyone is a bit of a gamble, there are no guarantees of transitioning to MLS, but I would certainly take my chances with Bernardeschi over most others that have been mentioned(which are few).

    If there’s even a chance at Bernardeschi, you take it.

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    A trade could be on the horizon... Although it's classic Wheeler, saying a lot without saying anything at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TMAN80 View Post
    I guess I wasn’t clear enough, but I fully understand the whole DP implications, I’ve followed the team and league since inception, so I guess what I’m saying is that I think we would be incredibly lucky to even have a chance at him(which to be honest I don’t think will ever happen), and he would fully justify a DP slot(or at least the signing - no guarantee on return). He’s incredibly skilled, and plays at a much higher level than who we currently have(including our current DPs). And even just look at who we’ve had before him as DP players, and you’re upset about having Bernardeschi?

    I honestly just cannot understand. I feel like everyone wants to pretend to “see” or “know” something that everyone else can’t, and are way over thinking this. If top managers around the world on top teams would have this guy, but you somehow can’t project him to be a top player here as a “DP” worthy player, than there is no point in going on with this debate - much like the “Poz is the problem one”.

    Last note - on the radar, short of Bellotti, who else is/was there? Who are you counting on coming in for a DP that will “100% be successful”. And more of a guarantee than anyone else? Because everyone is a bit of a gamble, there are no guarantees of transitioning to MLS, but I would certainly take my chances with Bernardeschi over most others that have been mentioned(which are few).

    If there’s even a chance at Bernardeschi, you take it.
    This argument is going around in circles because people refuse your core contention that “top managers” using him as a player means that he would dominate MLS.

    Top managers make personnel mistakes all the time OR use them for different purposes than expected.

    In his case, he played wingback for most of last season. And he platooned, he didn’t start game in and out.

    But the key part, which both yourself and Sec223 keep steadfastly refusing to debate, is that HE PRODUCES NOTHING OFFENSIVELY.

    Please address this point. Otherwise, this isn’t a debate or a discussion, it’s just two guys saying “I don’t understand” other people’s opinions over and over.

    Now maybe the reason he’s so valued at Juve is that he accepts a tactical role where his job is to move the ball, provide linkup and play good defence.

    Then, his lack of production is perhaps explicable.

    Perhaps he is the player we need to lock down the right side as a fullback.

    But why would you expect a player who has NEVER, in his entire career, produced significant offensive statistics , to start doing so now?

    We’ve had hundreds of players come from overseas to MLS. Those who didn’t produce at a higher level overseas don’t start suddenly doing so here because MLS is so easy. Higuain was only 32 when he got here and, surrounded at MIami by people there for a paycheque, was reduced to a 10-goal guy coming off the bench. He himself has publicly come out and said “it’s a much harder league than you think.”

    So is he just saving face? Because I watched him play at Miami and he was working hard. He wasn’t coasting. He jusn’t wasn’t so extraordinary that he could defeat time and MLS wasn’t so weak that it would let him.


    So there’s the rub on this argument: none of us have faith in Bernardeschi to produce offensively because he NEVER has.

    Expecting a veteran footballer to suddenly turn into an offensive producer because he’s stepped down a tier has rarely ever been the case in the past. So why would it be this time?

    It’s not a question of Mancini et al being “wrong.” They may recognize what he DOES bring, perhaps defensively and in terms of maintaining possession, works with the rest of their cast, their lineup choices.

    But that is quite different from expecting that player to then go into another league and start being something else completely.

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    A trade within MLS has me thinking Bono is on the way out.

    Other names I'd suspect - Achara, Shaff and maybe O'Neill. It's hard to pick out who might be worth some assets tbh.

    Because it's MLS and crazy is sometimes normal, my wild prediction is JMR with TFC retaining the sell-on.

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    No way O’Neil goes. Bono feels like one possibility. Maybe Bez wants more of our youth?

    Ayo wouldn’t surprise me to be honest.

 

 

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