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  1. #5731
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Is it sad that 1) I hope they do this.. 2) it fails spectacularly ?

    If it succeeded it would just give out really strong retirement league vibes. Which is unfair but I’m sure would be said.

    Clarence Seedorf tore the brasileiro to shreds in his late 30’s and nobody is going to say the Brazilians are running a retirement home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I expected this but it looks like Barca will pay him a fortune and employ all his friends at high salaries in invisible roles so that will be hard to beat.

    But I could see Poz accept TAM to be with his GF.

  3. #5733
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Is it sad that 1) I hope they do this.. 2) it fails spectacularly ?

    If it succeeded it would just give out really strong retirement league vibes. Which is unfair but I’m sure would be said.

    Clarence Seedorf tore the brasileiro to shreds in his late 30’s and nobody is going to say the Brazilians are running a retirement home.
    Ah to be fair, there's 'retirement league' (And a signing like Kroos would be in line with that) and there's Lionel Messi. You don't turn down the chance to sign Lionel Messi in 2023, and nobody would argue with signing him in 2023. I don't think it'd give those vibes at all.

    I don't think there's any chance Messi comes in 2023 either way

  4. #5734
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    https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...r-sundays-game

    TorSun is speculating Oso may be done with TFC.

    I'm not suggesting it's the case, but if it ever comes out that this was a work-to-rule move because he wouldn't play for Bradley or with Michael, the shit will truly hit the fan.

    It's just the timing of it, so soon after Poz, the fact that he and Delgado led us to within a point of the supporter's shield when Michael was out. If the worst-case scenario (of many) turns out to be true and Michael is seen by other players as a hindrance, he may have just decided he was done with contributing to the problem by making him look good.

    He's also on a contract expiry, so he couldn't ever come out and just say "we have a problem" publicly without being seen as a black sheep by clubs who might want to sign him.

    If he's playing in the friendly for Canada in three weeks, I think it's going to be a hell of a coincidence that the neurological issue disappeared as soon as our schedule did.

    I KNOW, it's very negative speculation.

    But the basis for it is that a) it cannot be comfortable not having a captain you believe you can confide in without the coaching hearing and b) on the few occasions Michael's been out over the last three years, we've played better. In 2020, substantially so.

    Perez could see it, and he benched him. If Ralph Priso doesn't get his heel stomped on by Gustavo Bou (without a card, even) he might have ended the season on the bench. As good as some of his numbers have been this year, most of his major markers outside of the central transition zone have been quite poor.

    I don't want to relitigate how good people think Michael is or isn't. But what is undoubtable is how dominant our central midfield pairing was when he was out. The timing of this illness -- when we're in the midst of wondering if the locker room has any cohesion or unit at all -- is the only reason I'm a little leery.
    Last edited by jloome; 10-07-2022 at 04:34 PM.

  5. #5735
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    I said it before, I’ll say it again. Bradley was giving off really strange vibes when answering softball questions on Oso at recent pressers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...r-sundays-game

    TorSun is speculating Oso may be done with TFC.

    I'm not suggesting it's the case, but if it ever comes out that this was a work-to-rule move because he wouldn't play for Bradley or with Michael, the shit will truly hit the fan.

    It's just the timing of it, so soon after Poz, the fact that he and Delgado led us to within a point of the supporter's shield when Michael was out. If the worst-case scenario (of many) turns out to be true and Michael is seen by other players as a hindrance, he may have just decided he was done with contributing to the problem by making him look good.

    He's also on a contract expiry, so he couldn't ever come out and just say "we have a problem" publicly without being seen as a black sheep by clubs who might want to sign him.

    If he's playing in the friendly for Canada in three weeks, I think it's going to be a hell of a coincidence that the neurological issue disappeared as soon as our schedule did.

    I KNOW, it's very negative speculation.

    But the basis for it is that a) it cannot be comfortable not having a captain you believe you can confide in without the coaching hearing and b) on the few occasions Michael's been out over the last three years, we've played better. In 2020, substantially so.

    Perez could see it, and he benched him. If Ralph Priso doesn't get his heel stomped on by Gustavo Bou (without a card, even) he might have ended the season on the bench. As good as some of his numbers have been this year, most of his major markers outside of the central transition zone have been quite poor.

    I don't want to relitigate how good people think Michael is or isn't. But what is undoubtable is how dominant our central midfield pairing was when he was out. The timing of this illness -- when we're in the midst of wondering if the locker room has any cohesion or unit at all -- is the only reason I'm a little leery.
    That is one hell of a speculation! I’m tempted to think in response of what a good relationship Oso and MB seemed to have had at the club for quite some time. Also, how Oso strikes me as not the sort of character who would at all sit when he could play. I can find plausible reasons for much of BB’s decisions this season but sitting Oso would be beyond the scope of reason.

    Also, I’ve had serious post concussion issues and man, can they be difficult to shake. The only clinic that can adequately deal with much of that stuff is in the US, btw… Canada you may as well forget it. Although the symptoms can heal on their own.

    No question though that our best central midfield of late involved Oso and Delgado working together in place of MB.

  7. #5737
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    Quote Originally Posted by los sonadores View Post
    Oso strikes me as not the sort of character who would at all sit when he could play.
    This is my biggest argument against. But I also know people can be set in stone on matters of principle.

    Man, to be a fly on the wall in that locker room.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I said it before, I’ll say it again. Bradley was giving off really strange vibes when answering softball questions on Oso at recent pressers.
    Yeah, that's certainly part of it. I covered pressers for years and the vagueness here, the fact that they have ruled out him still having a concussion and only discussed this in vague terms.

    What Oso has described does match up with post-concussion syndrome, but the team has talked around specifics, and I got a strong sense that Bob wasn't sure it was a real issue or something psychosomatic.

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    I expect Montreal to replace Mihailovic with Oso. I posted that in the summer, when Mihailovic to Holland was announced, before the Greek transfer rumour.

    Montreal have totally smoked TFC in the CMNT game. No reason to expect it to end now.

    Only way that changes is if we pay up, big time. Which we might.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    They have said already his injury is related to his jaw alignment. He even said he was wearing a mouthguard for the one game he played. Its a long term injury.

    As that article indicated.

    There is nothing in that article but support.

    There was no presser video.


    https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/arti...l-dysfunction/

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    No way Oso goes to Montreal - he'd be persona non grata to the supporters and that means a lot to him.

    Its either Europe, Liga Mx or a US team.

  12. #5742
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    They have said already his injury is related to his jaw alignment. He even said he was wearing a mouthguard for the one game he played. Its a long term injury.

    As that article indicated.

    There is nothing in that article but support.

    There was no presser video.


    https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/arti...l-dysfunction/
    EDIT: By symptom, it sounds like he has the TMJ related thing, as it can cause dizziness, nausea and long-term symptoms.

    Bradley did address it at his pre-match pressers and he was extremely vague.

    Also, there is nothing in that article except Osorio talking about it, and he doesn't discuss TFC's handling of it at all, just the Nats.

    And, they a) rule it out in that article as concussion related b) hint that it's mental health related, mentioning the anxiety it caused.

    The way Osorio describes it is non-medical, there is no condition where "once side of the brain compensates for the other" as the brain's functions are not, despite widely popular belief, side-dependent (with a few notable exceptions, like the posterior parietal lobe handling spacial recognition, and that's always in one area). There is no "i'm right brain, I'm left brain". That's not really a thing.

    I have experience with someone who had similar effects -- headaches, dizziness -- from a jaw dislocation that also required a mask, so he may just have that and not realize that's what it is. But dislocated jaws don't cause long-term neurological problems. TMJ can, apparently, so there IS a jaw injury component that can be related. Perhaps of he jammed it upwards while dislocating it he experienced something simiular.

    Generally "neurological dysfunction" as they're describing it here arises from a) a serious brain injury, not an option, b) a concussion, already ruled out or c) a long-term neurological development issue, usually genetic in origin although also caused sometimes by environmental factors; d) illness, such as COVID's prompting of the brain to generate proteins that are harmful to neuron development (long COVID).

    So it feels like there's a lot of generalization and inaccuracy going on in how they've described this.

    I'm not saying it's not all legit, just that given the overall arc of the last three years, the poor explanations and seemingly endless timeline -- plus a new story saying he's basically gone -- adds up to being worried.
    Last edited by jloome; 10-07-2022 at 07:46 PM.

  13. #5743
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    Speculation is getting really weird about now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I expect Montreal to replace Mihailovic with Oso. I posted that in the summer, when Mihailovic to Holland was announced, before the Greek transfer rumour.

    Montreal have totally smoked TFC in the CMNT game. No reason to expect it to end now.

    Only way that changes is if we pay up, big time. Which we might.
    According to Bogert the max salary increase that other teams can offer to MLS free agents is 15%. So Montreal can only pay Oso $1.15M. TFC can pay whatever we want in order to retain him. Based on that, I can't see him going to another MLS team (barring a sign and trade where we get a huge pile of GAM). He does note in the thread that this is MLS, so rules are confusing and always subject to change.

    https://twitter.com/tombogert/status...25137580523520

  15. #5745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Speculation is getting really weird about now...
    If you saw my track record from checking out speculation that normal people thought of as weird when I was a reporter, you'd find it less weird.

    It's probably wrong. But based on typical human behavior, it's certainly not weird.

    In the last year, half his teammates have been shipped out, none too positively. It comes after two years in which the only time we were winning, the guy probably giving our coach reports on those players was on the bench and he was paired with Marky.

    We then ship out Poz, who is the only midfielder playing at Oso's level.

    There are plenty of reasons why he might think they're tanking things, and if he doesn't feel respected or listened to, plenty of reasons why he might decide to act on it just before his contract expires.

    So, not weird. But probably wrong.
    Last edited by jloome; 10-07-2022 at 07:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    According to Bogert the max salary increase that other teams can offer to MLS free agents is 15%. So Montreal can only pay Oso $1.15M. TFC can pay whatever we want in order to retain him. Based on that, I can't see him going to another MLS team (barring a sign and trade where we get a huge pile of GAM). He does note in the thread that this is MLS, so rules are confusing and always subject to change.

    https://twitter.com/tombogert/status...25137580523520
    This is the real upside of this, to me; we can't poach Sean Johnson, in all likelihood, but Mtl can't poach Oso, unless he takes less money to play for them, which even iof he were disgruntled would be probably not wise at 30.

    I hope they work out a deal sooner, rather than later. If we're holding off -- he says things have moved slowly -- because of a head injury that seems to be something temporary, it would be another irksome sign of disrespect to one of our better players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    According to Bogert the max salary increase that other teams can offer to MLS free agents is 15%. So Montreal can only pay Oso $1.15M. TFC can pay whatever we want in order to retain him. Based on that, I can't see him going to another MLS team (barring a sign and trade where we get a huge pile of GAM). He does note in the thread that this is MLS, so rules are confusing and always subject to change.

    https://twitter.com/tombogert/status...25137580523520
    So it's not even real "free agency". This league truly is something else. 'We want to be a top 10 league where players want to play competitive football. We also want to screw and limit our players as much as possible'

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    The other thing supporting jloome's speculation is the treatment of FAs by this team under Manning. Player after player dangles right through the end of their contract. Only Jozy was the exception, and the team's hand was kind of forced there.

    Without knowing a thing about how Oso sees it… I think players generally must really resent this. It's not how things are done in football. You sign the player or move him 18 months out.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The other thing supporting jloome's speculation is the treatment of FAs by this team under Manning. Player after player dangles right through the end of their contract. Only Jozy was the exception, and the team's hand was kind of forced there.

    Without knowing a thing about how Oso sees it… I think players generally must really resent this. It's not how things are done in football. You sign the player or move him 18 months out.
    That approach of waiting is not just Manning - this is very much an MLS thing. Carlos Vela is another example. I think this thinking comes from being in a cap league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    That approach of waiting is not just Manning - this is very much an MLS thing. Carlos Vela is another example. I think this thinking comes from being in a cap league.
    Truth to this. So I guess I'd amend to say that the degree to which TFC have taken care of nobody over the years, when other teams have reupped at least some of their players, is distinctive.

    I really want Oso to stay, btw. Just agreeing that the fact pattern around Oso and BB is weird, at a minimum, and that Oso may have good reason to feel that the team's treatment of him this year is pretty bad.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I think part of the waiting comes from the salary cap and DP mechanism. For DPs you don’t want to risk locking in a declining player (which would have happened with Seba and did with Jozy). In a non salary cap league you can just eat the cost or accept that it’s a part of rewarding your stars for their achievements. For non DP players, predicting future salary cap increases beyond the established GAM amounts can be challenging. I’m sure they’re getting guidance from MLS HQ on it, but over paying a few players by $200k each can really hamstring your future cap sheet.
    All that to say - the waiting isn’t good for players and it can make them feel disrespected, as happened with Seba and may be happening with Oso.

  22. #5752
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Truth to this. So I guess I'd amend to say that the degree to which TFC have taken care of nobody over the years, when other teams have reupped at least some of their players
    We re upped Bono, Zav, Morrow, Jozy. Offered big money to Richie. Osorio’s previous contract made him one of the highest paid Canadians in football at the time (however I can’t remember if we did it early or not).
    If anything we did it too often, just on the wrong people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    We re upped Bono, Zav, Morrow, Jozy. Offered big money to Richie. Osorio’s previous contract made him one of the highest paid Canadians in football at the time (however I can’t remember if we did it early or not).
    If anything we did it too often, just on the wrong people.
    Add Deleon to that list.

  24. #5754
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    We re upped Bono, Zav, Morrow, Jozy....just on the wrong people.
    Two of those -- Bono and Zav -- were obviously based on personality or favortism, as neither ever had the stats to justify being re-signed.

    Morrow made sense and he retired with us, one finally done right. Jozy was coming off an injury but looked recovered. Those two are at least forgivable.

    But over the years we've either passed on or lost a string of players who were good or at least competent for us: Frei, Beitashour, Williams (long career now as a starter/backup at Columbus,) Edwards (left exposed after six assists in 17 starts), Pablo Piatti (very effective, on TAM), Hasler (still doing well in Swiss league), Benezet (now at Nimes, screwed out of a promised renewal with a benching on his last start).

    These weren't stars, they were just effectively competent. Most were shed as "too expensive" and then replaced with cheaper-but-inferior options. Those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.

    Our GM situation has been a shitshow, other than about a year under Lieweke and a year under Manning. The former had Bez, who is competent, the latter had Curtis, who was not.

    That's not even counting all the draft options they passed on. Who have we developed through the draft or our youth setup again?
    Last edited by jloome; 10-08-2022 at 10:44 AM.

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    Hasler always bugged me & Benezet was an effing disgrace for a company that talks about values.

    I'll add - Maxi Urruti - the poster boy of "the old regime sucked so we are getting rid of this dude" thinking. They traded him to the team we were playing that night.

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    Then we signed van der Wiel who was a well known locker room issue.

    Only for Manning and company to talk about looking for the "right player" and sign Soteldo a few years later.

  27. #5757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Then we signed van der Wiel who was a well known locker room issue.

    Only for Manning and company to talk about looking for the "right player" and sign Soteldo a few years later.
    Ultimately, this shit is on the MLSE board. They seem incapable of hiring competent people 90% of the time. If you don't have a competent leader, the shit just flows downhill.

    If you swapped out the list of players we shed but shouldn't have between 2012 and 2020 with the ones we signed under Curtis, we'd probably have two more titles.

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    I would Oso - this year. Why didn’t TFC sign him in the last offseason?

    For him to say talks have been “slow”… he'd be right to be privately annoyed by that, given his history with the club, the season he was having pre-injury, and what he has accomplished with Canada.

    They pushed the injury risk onto him, and he may not forget that…
    Last edited by ensco; 10-08-2022 at 01:43 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Osorio’s previous contract made him one of the highest paid Canadians in football at the time (however I can’t remember if we did it early or not).
    Yeah and we almost gave that too him begrudgingly after he carried the team in a contract year and our star midfield signing Aketxe was a flop for the ages.

    Once all the wrong moves have been tried and are eliminated, we finally do the right thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    They have said already his injury is related to his jaw alignment. He even said he was wearing a mouthguard for the one game he played. Its a long term injury.

    As that article indicated.

    There is nothing in that article but support.

    There was no presser video.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/arti...l-dysfunction/

    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    EDIT: By symptom, it sounds like he has the TMJ related thing, as it can cause dizziness, nausea and long-term symptoms.

    Bradley did address it at his pre-match pressers and he was extremely vague...

    ...So it feels like there's a lot of generalization and inaccuracy going on in how they've described this.

    I'm not saying it's not all legit, just that given the overall arc of the last three years, the poor explanations and seemingly endless timeline -- plus a new story saying he's basically gone -- adds up to being worried.

    Kinda, sorta, perhaps like one of Burt Reynolds situations; joint condition of the jaw.

 

 

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