TFC 2022 player in-season roster discussion

[leedsandTFC]

I do think with the right signings 2023 will be very good....it better be, and we better start out of the gate fast, or BB has to go. We can't miss the playoffs again. We have to be top 4 with all this payroll. Anything less can't be acceptable.

To be honest, I don't have faith in BB, he led LAFC to miss the playoffs despite all the resources they had. And now, they are back without him. But I guess we will see.

And for Nancy in particular, Montreal has little budget, and he turned it around. They play nice football.

I do think if the other night if Nancy coaches us, BB Montreal, we win.

you kind of have to look under the surface for the LAFC issues in 20-21.

the GM traded zimmerman after 2019, which was disastrous.

vela also had terrible injury issues in these seasons, and they were terrible int he period that he missed (they still are).

also, they sold rossi halfway through the 2021 season.

part of the reason bob came here is to have more control so these mistakes wouldn't happen again.

despite all this, the underlying metrics at LAFC were top 3 in MLS throughout his tenure (xG, xGA), they just lacked cutting edge with vela out in last couple years.

[NK Toronto]

A bizaree firing after just signing all those players. They lost to Dinamo Zagreb, but to be fair, Dinamo Zagreb has beat some "bigger" teams recently. They I assume have to have someone in mind already before doing this?

Yeah, Nots forest will probaly go down. We need Richie to stay.

If Forest is relegated and Cooper fired that might help Richie attain a roster spot. Forest would be looking to unload some of their more expensive signings and since Richie is on a reasonable salary and under contract the new manager may keep him to play in the Championship.

[noxx98]

Tajon was yet another draft choice we could have had but elected to take someone else. Dorsey? We have a bad history of that which well-predates the current crop of management.

I know the Dorsey pick gets a lot of hate, but he's actually been one of the most successful picks that came out of that draft. It just sucks that Tajon, St Clair and Kamal all were in that draft and went after Dorsey. My view is that since the draft is such a crapshoot, the team should generally just go for Canadians.

For Tajon, he apparently had a few trials with the TFC academy, but found the idea of a US soccer scholarship appealing so he moved to the US for high school rather than staying in Brampton. Along with that, his youth soccer coach was moving to Colorado and he wanted to stay with him. https://theathletic.com/2727220/2021...da-revolution/

Alistair would have been the perfect replacement for Richie, but I'm wondering if the timings just didn't work out. Montreal acquired Alistair on Dec 27 and we sold Richie on Jan 6. Maybe if the timelines were reversed we could have made a move for Alistair. Manning and BB may have been hoping we'd be able to retain Richie.

[jloome]

I know the Dorsey pick gets a lot of hate, but he's actually been one of the most successful picks that came out of that draft. It just sucks that Tajon, St Clair and Kamal all were in that draft and went after Dorsey. My view is that since the draft is such a crapshoot, the team should generally just go for Canadians.

For Tajon, he apparently had a few trials with the TFC academy, but found the idea of a US soccer scholarship appealing so he moved to the US for high school rather than staying in Brampton. Along with that, his youth soccer coach was moving to Colorado and he wanted to stay with him. https://theathletic.com/2727220/2021...da-revolution/

Alistair would have been the perfect replacement for Richie, but I'm wondering if the timings just didn't work out. Montreal acquired Alistair on Dec 27 and we sold Richie on Jan 6. Maybe if the timelines were reversed we could have made a move for Alistair. Manning and BB may have been hoping we'd be able to retain Richie.

Maybe Alistair had no interest in going to the club that cut him as a teenager for being "too small."

[Ultra & Proud]

you kind of have to look under the surface for the LAFC issues in 20-21.

the GM traded zimmerman after 2019, which was disastrous.

vela also had terrible injury issues in these seasons, and they were terrible int he period that he missed (they still are).

also, they sold rossi halfway through the 2021 season.

part of the reason bob came here is to have more control so these mistakes wouldn't happen again.

despite all this, the underlying metrics at LAFC were top 3 in MLS throughout his tenure (xG, xGA), they just lacked cutting edge with vela out in last couple years.

Plus they burned their new team allocation money in year one (and a bit in year two) and they were forced to dump key players and that unbalanced the squad. Also they had GKs as bad or worse than Bono during Bob's time.

[noxx98]

Maybe Alistair had no interest in going to the club that cut him as a teenager for being "too small."

I'm sure if we offered him a $600k contract (he's only on $450k with MTL) it would have been water under the bridge...

[Mr. Inbetween]

If Forest is relegated and Cooper fired that might help Richie attain a roster spot. Forest would be looking to unload some of their more expensive signings and since Richie is on a reasonable salary and under contract the new manager may keep him to play in the Championship.

This is a reasonable and real possibility.
Although I believe there is more to this exercise to (re-)acquire RL than CMNT/WC preparation minutes.
I think there is negotiated contract clause that favours a TFC first refusal decision.

[Ultra & Proud]

This is a reasonable and real possibility.
Although I believe there is more to this exercise to (re-)acquire RL than CMNT/WC preparation minutes.
I think there is negotiated contract clause that favours a TFC first refusal decision.

I agree. I don't think we let go of that much allocation money for a short term rental.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Finally... The fate of Bono Ball has been sealed.

[Mr. Inbetween]

Just to note and oddly...
IIUC, both Andrea Belotti (sort of?) and Mattia Destro appear to be on 1 year contracts.
Hmmm.

[noxx98]

Karius signing with Newcastle, so that puts that to rest (at least temporarily).

[jloome]

I think part of the reason he wouldn't go back to Q is age and the effects travel/COVID had on him as an older player.

If you go back to 2019/2020, he had a magnificent run for us. We had Oso and Mark bossing the midfield, our defense and goalie didn't have much to do in a lot of games, and when he was busy, he was great.

Since then, he hasn't won two games in a row. Ever. In fact, I think he only has four wins (including Pumas and Forge) in two years. I'd have to check transfermarkt but it's something like that.

Last season was a tire fire. COVID cost him big time and took him out of playing every day at an age where that can't happen. Since then, he's been given chances here and there to take the spot back but he's never made the saves. He was in for the 7-1 blowout versus DC last year and it's been pretty much losses ever since. I think he has one win in just over a year.

I'm not saying Bono is a starter, and his confidence is now also shot, so we have two starters who can't start. But his raw tools are such that Bob knows he's going to win the odd game for us. He had one last season, one earlier this year where he was great and the defence wasn't.

So that's why he was in. We literally were stuck with two contracts. I think they brought in the league pool goalie, Ranjitsingh because a) he's Canadian and doesn't cost an internatinational slot; b) he'd done okay in limited duty at Orlando and spot league duty so he wouldn't embarass them completely and most importantly c) they were trying to move one of either Q or Bono at pretty much firesale cost to free up the spot, but had no confidence they'd get either an affordable domestic alternative inside the first window OR have the TAM for a foreign goalie.

In other words, they fucked up in the first place by not getting rid one of one or both in the offseason.

I'd also note that q's numbers have drifted terribly since 2019. No doubt, the shit defence didn't help. But in his good year, he only let in 18 in 21 games, similar to his average in France.

In 2020, it was 22 in 10 games.
In 2021 it was 11 in 6 games.

So he regressed to similar numbers to bono, who is strikingly consistently bad:

2018: 27 games played 45 goals allowed

2019: 6 games played 11 goals allowed

2020: 2 appearances, two shutouts (his best year!)

2021: 24 games played 44 goals allowed, two shutouts.

2022 24 games played 42 goals allowed, three shutouts (a marginal improvement).

Is it terrible defence, terrible keeping or both? I'd have to say that given how the only season in that run where we didn't miss the playoffs was the 2019 run to the final under Q, Bono has objectively been a major contributor to our issues. When he's in, we had two goals against per game on average as soon as Dru Moore left. That's unsustainable.

Q, prior to COVID and age, was putting up star quality numbers and in 2019, I have to believe that was as big a contributor to the changes as Oso/Marky. We knew Omar was a bombscare by the end of that season yet still also managed to win another cup.

[Ultra & Proud]

So he regressed to similar numbers to bono, who is strikingly consistently bad:

2018: 27 games played 45 goals allowed

2019: 6 games played 11 goals allowed

2020: 2 appearances, two shutouts (his best year!)

2021: 24 games played 44 goals allowed, two shutouts.

2022 24 games played 42 goals allowed, three shutouts (a marginal improvement).

That is just abysmal. I never looked it up for my own sanity but it's even worse than I thought.

[jloome]

That is just abysmal. I never looked it up for my own sanity but it's even worse than I thought.

I mean, it's absurd that he's still here. People ask legitimate questions about Jon Conway, but I want to know who Alex Bono had pictures of because that is insane. Those are "buy him out, cut your losses" numbers after two years. He's been doing it for five.

[Ultra & Proud]

I mean, it's absurd that he's still here. People ask legitimate questions about Jon Conway, but I want to know who Alex Bono had pictures of because that is insane. Those are "buy him out, cut your losses" numbers after two years. He's been doing it for five.

How good could he be in training to make various managers gloss over those real and very terrible numbers?

In a way everyone from Vanney to Bez (especially for that extension) to Armas and now Bradley (but I guess his hands were a bit tied) share some blame in this. It's really inexcusable for a professional team to ride out a #1 GK with numbers like that (or a back up on that wage).

At this rate I don't think he is a MLS quality back up anymore. MLS has grown beyond that level. I mean someone will probably sign him for $120K because he did win a cup and is experienced but he surely doesn't deserve it based on current merit or skill.

[Oldtimer]

I mean, it's absurd that he's still here. People ask legitimate questions about Jon Conway, but I want to know who Alex Bono had pictures of because that is insane. Those are "buy him out, cut your losses" numbers after two years. He's been doing it for five.

Maybe we can't blame Conway then, since Bono hasn't regressed since losing Moore. He's been consistently quite bad. I didn't realize how much so.

[jloome]

Our three Italians and Oso all missed practice today.

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...ng-on-thursday

The story so far is Insigne had a family thing and Criscito stayed in Toronto with him to help.

No word on Bernie.

Eek. What's going on? I'm getting nervous something is coming down the pipe.

[Ultra & Proud]

Maybe we can't blame Conway then, since Bono hasn't regressed since losing Moore. He's been consistently quite bad. I didn't realize how much so.

Sure we can. Look at Westberg's & Irwin's numbers year to year. He turned them all into Bono by year 3.

[jloome]

Sure we can. Look at Westberg's & Irwin's numbers year to year. He turned them all into Bono by year 3.

Tough to pin Q on him as he was out for a prolonged covid then an injury, and he's 36. Big keepers can make up the age difference with experience and positioning. Small keepers can't.

Irwin was always inconsistent. I don't argue it's worth looking at, but that's not enough to say it's Conway at fault.

I do have to wonder, though, what point there is to keeping a first-club coach who has made ZERO improvement in either player, even if not to blame for their shortcomings.

[jloome]

I also wonder why our squad size has shrunk so much over the last five years. In 2018 we had 37 men on roster. I assume the league has contracted roster maximums since then because of expansion but we only had 26 players this year, well below other clubs. It's like they never even bothered trying to be fully competitive.

[613reppingTFC]

Our three Italians and Oso all missed practice today.

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...ng-on-thursday

The story so far is Insigne had a family thing and Criscito stayed in Toronto with him to help.

No word on Bernie.

Eek. What's going on? I'm getting nervous something is coming down the pipe.

Hmm that's interesting. Also to note, I was watching on tv so I didn't catch it in the last game. But they mentioned on a podcast and someone else pointed it out on here that Criscito went to talk to Bradley after one of the goals and shortly after got subbed out. Was he subbed due to whatever he was complaining to Bradley about? Anyone have any more insight into that?

[SenorDingDong]

Hmm that's interesting. Also to note, I was watching on tv so I didn't catch it in the last game. But they mentioned on a podcast and someone else pointed it out on here that Criscito went to talk to Bradley after one of the goals and shortly after got subbed out. Was he subbed due to whatever he was complaining to Bradley about? Anyone have any more insight into that?

They were all in practice on Tuesday. Not sure any alarm bells are needed. Unless they don't travel to Atlanta.

[rydermike]

I also wonder why our squad size has shrunk so much over the last five years. In 2018 we had 37 men on roster. I assume the league has contracted roster maximums since then because of expansion but we only had 26 players this year, well below other clubs. It's like they never even bothered trying to be fully competitive.

Roster cap is 30 players.

[leedsandTFC]

Our three Italians and Oso all missed practice today.

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...ng-on-thursday

The story so far is Insigne had a family thing and Criscito stayed in Toronto with him to help.

No word on Bernie.

Eek. What's going on? I'm getting nervous something is coming down the pipe.

berna was training on his own.

insigne's wife is pregnant so a family emergency could be related to that (hope to god it isn;t though).

remember he also had something like this after the nashville game.

[jloome]

berna was training on his own.

insigne's wife is pregnant so a family emergency could be related to that (hope to god it isn;t though).

remember he also had something like this after the nashville game.

Why would Bernie be training alone, I wonder? Small injury? That's usually what they do when a player can't take part in heavy activity.

[leedsandTFC]

Why would Bernie be training alone, I wonder? Small injury? That's usually what they do when a player can't take part in heavy activity.

i think he's just gassed, he did this another day when he was getting up to speed.

[James17930]

i think he's just gassed, he did this another day when he was getting up to speed.

Yep. Probably just Load Management.

[noxx98]

With Juve, although Berna played almost every game he usually didn't go the full 90 because of their depth. He played about 2000 mins in all competitions for Juve last season and has done about half of that in 2 months with TFC. Agreed with James that it's probably just some load management to keep him fresh for the full 90.

[los sonadores]

I also wonder why our squad size has shrunk so much over the last five years. In 2018 we had 37 men on roster. I assume the league has contracted roster maximums since then because of expansion but we only had 26 players this year, well below other clubs. It's like they never even bothered trying to be fully competitive.

I think we opened the season with 18 or something like that. When you clean house and your new manager is also your new sporting director I guess that is what can happen. The season played before the summer window still seems crazy to me.

[noxx98]

Philly has 27 players on their roster. NYRB has 28. LAFC has 28. With 26 we aren't that far off.