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  1. #5221
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    Folks, remember that Mexican coach from a certain CL game past who said we would never win anything with BONORELO between the pipes?

  2. #5222
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    It certainly bears serious examination. It may be that he’s technically solid in methodology but isn’t helping them maintain the right confident and competitive mindset. There are some “player’s coaches” out there who seem to do more harm than good.
    This is probably it and going by how they all seem in warm ups, he is probably everyones pal. The guy who keeps the attitudes in check and keeps the bench guy happy and although that is a key part of the job, so is helping the GKs get technically better over time.

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    MacNaughton has honestly exceeded my expectations. Having him on the pitch does not prohibit a good result, which was my bar.

    Still need two starters at CB though. As well as a RB probably when Laryea leaves.

    The whole backline really is barely in better shape than last year, it’s kind of appalling it’s still this bad.

  4. #5224
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    MacNaughton has honestly exceeded my expectations. Having him on the pitch does not prohibit a good result, which was my bar.

    Still need two starters at CB though. As well as a RB probably when Laryea leaves.

    The whole backline really is barely in better shape than last year, it’s kind of appalling it’s still this bad.
    Even Richie is hit and miss since returning and he has no legit back up to speak of. Criscito is good and Petrasso is good enough to be a back up on the other side. In a perfect world at CB I would just keep MacNaughton but we'll have to hang onto O'Neil at least.

    The order of importance in the winter window rebuild should be:

    1) A proven starting GK
    2) A proven CB
    3) a mix of defensive depth
    4) Midfield depth
    5) a CF (I put this last because I haven't given up on JJ yet)

  5. #5225
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    ^ Don’t rule out him improving enough year-to-year to make a run at a starting job. Happened with Waterman.

    I say that as we’ve got a number of holes to plug and making something out of nothing in certain positions might be necessary.

  6. #5226
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    ^ Don’t rule out him improving enough year-to-year to make a run at a starting job. Happened with Waterman.

    I say that as we’ve got a number of holes to plug and making something out of nothing in certain positions might be necessary.
    Don’t rely on it either.

  7. #5227
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    Squads are such fragile things. Teammates need to have belief, in themselves, in each other, in the manager. These are ecosystems where the slightest thing can put it out of whack…

    We haven’t looked right for years on that front, and Sunday was as bad as I can ever remember it. The difference between us and Montreal Sunday in terms of the body language of the players was astounding and distressing - and I very much include the Italians in that comment. (Not blaming them. Just observing that the seeds of a big new problem have maybe been planted.)

    Bob needs to look in the mirror here. Nobody else is going to tell him, or fix it for him. What he tried to do in 2022 on the “team” front, with all that pointless turnover, has turned into a raging dumpster fire. He has to see it, and fix it. I don’t really know how - it's bigger than talent/personnel decisions.
    Last edited by ensco; 09-06-2022 at 06:17 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  8. #5228
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    We had a brutal 14 game stretch this season where we lost 10 & things were pretty much toast.


    Not sure Nick De Leon could have saved that.

  9. #5229
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    We had a brutal 14 game stretch this season where we lost 10 & things were pretty much toast.


    Not sure Nick De Leon could have saved that.
    But we just had a 5 game stretch that Bendik probably could have saved.

  10. #5230
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Even after we got the Italians, we didn't look like a well-drilled, well-coached team. We looked like we have an MLS 1.0 coach still teaching people to stick to "tendencies" and "philosophies about how we play" rather than drilling movement until its rote and second nature, which pretty much all good management teams now do.

    Far too much, tactically, was left to the players on the field. By the end, the Italians were just trying the old-fashioned "continual wing switch" until you back the defenders almost up to the goal line.
    Agreed with pretty much everything else you said* but I give BB some slack on this point. We've had so many changes to the team this year it must have been tough to really build much cohesiveness. I actually think we looked really smooth when the Italians first got here, albeit it was usually in short spurts. I think as time went on we got more desperate for points, we had less energy to give, and the Italians had less players they wanted to pass to, so everyone reverted to what they felt most comfortable doing and our football suffered. I think if we make the moves we need to in the winter (new GK and CB, probaly new CF and DM and actual midfield depth) and have time to gel we'll be much better.

    Of course, I'm not sure Bob is the right person to make the moves we need to. Bob the GM is my main worry, not Bob the coach

    *minor quibbles would be Henry and Gavran, DH was probably the best cheap depth we could have gotten on such short notice, and we have 3 GK's on the senior roster already, if anything Ranjitsingh should get a shot. I expect Gavran to get a look at the first team next year but I'm fine letting the kid finish his first pro season at a level he's excelling in

  11. #5231
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    if we're being honest, the DPs playing so well made people forget that we're still in the middle of a rebuild

    the squad is paper thin, has glaring holes at CF, CB and GK, which will be fixed in the upcoming window.

    reminder that all these coaches people are eulogizing over now (curtin, nancy, etc) failed before they succeeded, and were able to build squads over time.

    i have total faith in bob's ability to build a title winning team, his LAFC squad that he built from scratch was superb, likely the best ever in MLS, and TFC have better top end talent and money than they did.

    i think 2023 is going to be a lot of fun.

  12. #5232
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    if we're being honest, the DPs playing so well made people forget that we're still in the middle of a rebuild

    the squad is paper thin, has glaring holes at CF, CB and GK, which will be fixed in the upcoming window.

    reminder that all these coaches people are eulogizing over now (curtin, nancy, etc) failed before they succeeded, and were able to build squads over time.

    i have total faith in bob's ability to build a title winning team, his LAFC squad that he built from scratch was superb, likely the best ever in MLS, and TFC have better top end talent and money than they did.

    i think 2023 is going to be a lot of fun.
    Very reasonable post. And I agree, Curtin and Nancy couldn’t do anything more with our midfield without Oso and Kaye than anyone else could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    if we're being honest, the DPs playing so well made people forget that we're still in the middle of a rebuild

    the squad is paper thin, has glaring holes at CF, CB and GK, which will be fixed in the upcoming window.

    reminder that all these coaches people are eulogizing over now (curtin, nancy, etc) failed before they succeeded, and were able to build squads over time.

    i have total faith in bob's ability to build a title winning team, his LAFC squad that he built from scratch was superb, likely the best ever in MLS, and TFC have better top end talent and money than they did.

    i think 2023 is going to be a lot of fun.
    I do think with the right signings 2023 will be very good....it better be, and we better start out of the gate fast, or BB has to go. We can't miss the playoffs again. We have to be top 4 with all this payroll. Anything less can't be acceptable.

    To be honest, I don't have faith in BB, he led LAFC to miss the playoffs despite all the resources they had. And now, they are back without him. But I guess we will see.

    And for Nancy in particular, Montreal has little budget, and he turned it around. They play nice football.

    I do think if the other night if Nancy coaches us, BB Montreal, we win.

  14. #5234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luanda View Post
    Folks, remember that Mexican coach from a certain CL game past who said we would never win anything with BONORELO between the pipes?

    Who was that?

    I watched that America thing on netflix, was pretty good for what its worth.

  15. #5235
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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    if we're being honest, the DPs playing so well made people forget that we're still in the middle of a rebuild

    the squad is paper thin, has glaring holes at CF, CB and GK, which will be fixed in the upcoming window.

    reminder that all these coaches people are eulogizing over now (curtin, nancy, etc) failed before they succeeded, and were able to build squads over time.

    i have total faith in bob's ability to build a title winning team, his LAFC squad that he built from scratch was superb, likely the best ever in MLS, and TFC have better top end talent and money than they did.

    i think 2023 is going to be a lot of fun.
    I appreciate the viewpoint. I am not entirely writing off Bob as yet but some things we’ve seen so far make me skeptical.

    By next summer window we could be looking at a squad ready to compete for MLS cup. Or, we could be looking at no Richie, no Oso, oft inured Kaye, and a lot of questions.

    Anything beyond a one year rebuild makes no sense when your top player is over 30 and in his prime now. They have to be ready to put the finishing touches on this by next summer or we’re going to be cemented in our reputation as the New York Knicks of MLS (aka a dysfunctional, almost impossibly bumbling under performer vs our salary spend).

  16. #5236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    And for Nancy in particular, Montreal has little budget, and he turned it around. They play nice football.

    I do think if the other night if Nancy coaches us, BB Montreal, we win.
    You've said countless times in this thread that by not addressing our weak links (Nelson, CBs, GK, all our youth, both CFs) that Bradley failed to acquire enough good players fast enough for us to have a competitive roster (which is true but somewhat understandable). Now you're saying Nancy could do more with it even when a few extra important players were out?

    Simple question; how many of our starting XI could go walk right into Montreal's starting XI last Saturday? The 2 DPs and maybe Criscito & Richie (but doubtful). That's it. Until that's fixed it can't be judged fairly. However, if BB doesn't address most of this in the coming window then he and his work are open to harsh criticism and rightfully so.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 09-07-2022 at 09:40 AM.

  17. #5237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    OK, let's get this thread back on topic.



    I noticed that Robbo has his son signed with the TFC Academy. Has anyone been following this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Saw it this morning. Explains why he was spotted walking around the Ex on Sunday.
    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Who is Robbo?
    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Carl Robinson. Recently released from a job coaching in the Aussie League.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    Newbie alert....LOL....just kidding....Carl Robinson. Former TFC player. That was his nickname.
    Given the BB doubt... I am sure some in the multi-verse may have been hoping 'Robbo' referenced Robin Fraser.

  18. #5238
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    Doing a bit of a comparison of Montreal in 2020 to 2022...

    In 2020 they finished 9th (1.13 ppg, -10 GD) This was with Henry in charge
    In 2021 they finished 10th in the East (1.35 ppg, +2GD) This was Nancy's first year in charge.
    In 2022 they are 2nd in the East (1.79 ppg, +8GD)

    In 2020 they had 10 players play 1000+ mins. In 2021 6 of those players were still with Montreal, 5 of them had 1000+ mins again. In 2022 5 of those players were still with the club, all of them have 1000+ mins this season. Along with that, in 2020 they had Lappalainen, Waterman, and Pantemis on the club who are now heavily involved (Pantemis less so than the other two).

    In comparison, for TFC:

    In 2020, finished 2nd (1.91 ppg ,+7 GD)
    In 2021, finished 13th (0.82 ppg, -27 GD)
    In 2022, currently 10th (1.13 ppg, -6 GD)

    In 2020 we had 11 players play 1000+ mins. In 2021 all 11 of those players were still with the club, Ayo and Poz were the only two to play less than 1000 mins. In 2022, four of those players have been here all year (Oso, Ayo, MB, Westberg), with Richie returning half way through and Poz leaving half way through. So lets call it 5 players have been here for the full year.

    Although some of our younger players were with the club in 2020 (Nelson, Achara, Okello, JMR, and previously Priso and Shaff) they didn't really feature in 2020.

    Just based on how the roster has turned over, I'd put us a year behind Montreal in terms of the rebuild. Along with that, it's not like Montreal was good from 2017-2019. They sat outside of the playoffs in each of those seasons and really just languished in mediocrity. In comparison, TFC was largely competitive in that span of time and wrongly tried to hold onto that core group beyond our window of competitiveness. All that to say - given the challenges in roster building in MLS, it's very hard to refresh a roster in a single year. Things haven't always been pretty or perfect this year, but it's been an improvement over last year. I think Bob deserves (and will almost certainly) have the freedom to continue building the roster next season.

  19. #5239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    However, if BB doesn't address most of this in the coming window then he and his work are open to harsh criticism and rightfully so.
    That's a reasonable standard. Given that BB works by getting players that play his system (rather than adjust his system to who he has), his actions as technical director are critical to this team. If he can't fix the team to play a reasonable game in a year with MLSE's money and pull, he deserves to be consigned to the past as someone who was successful when the league was younger but can no longer cut it.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-07-2022 at 10:27 AM.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  20. #5240
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    BB has two more windows.
    His tenure as the Mister is in question.
    His bar is no less than the playoffs next season.
    Anything less is failure.
    Anything less and the Italians have Rolodexs...

    https://www.napolimagazine.com/in-ev...abio-cannavaro

    https://www.beinsports.com/hk/serie-...sarri-3/714921

    The few... The Sangue Blu of Calcio Napoletano.

  21. #5241
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I appreciate the viewpoint. I am not entirely writing off Bob as yet but some things we’ve seen so far make me skeptical.

    By next summer window we could be looking at a squad ready to compete for MLS cup. Or, we could be looking at no Richie, no Oso, oft inured Kaye, and a lot of questions.

    Anything beyond a one year rebuild makes no sense when your top player is over 30 and in his prime now. They have to be ready to put the finishing touches on this by next summer or we’re going to be cemented in our reputation as the New York Knicks of MLS (aka a dysfunctional, almost impossibly bumbling under performer vs our salary spend).

    We need to resign Layera..he's a key piece of this rebuild. And he's a fighter, the team feeds off his energy for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    You've said countless times in this thread that by not addressing our weak links (Nelson, CBs, GK, all our youth, both CFs) that Bradley failed to acquire enough good players fast enough for us to have a competitive roster (which is true but somewhat understandable). Now you're saying Nancy could do more with it even when a few extra important players were out?

    Simple question; how many of our starting XI could go walk right into Montreal's starting XI last Saturday? The 2 DPs and maybe Criscito & Richie (but doubtful). That's it. Until that's fixed it can't be judged fairly. However, if BB doesn't address most of this in the coming window then he and his work are open to harsh criticism and rightfully so.
    those 4 for sure walk into Montreal's line up. Maybe Kayye.

  23. #5243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    We need to resign Layera..he's a key piece of this rebuild. And he's a fighter, the team feeds off his energy for sure.
    I believe and have stated Laryea is here to stay.
    Early days, but NF may be relegated.
    Lots of speculation and theories that Coopers days are numbered.
    With Thomas Tuchel gone... odds are neck and neck between Cooper and Brendan Rogers at LC as next.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 09-07-2022 at 10:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    those 4 for sure walk into Montreal's line up. Maybe Kayye.
    Maybe Mavinga also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    I believe and have stated Laryea is here to stay.
    Early days, but NF may be relegated.
    Lots of speculation and theories, Coopers days are numbered.
    With Thomas Tuchel gone... odds are neck and neck between Cooper and Brendan Rogers at LC as next.
    A bizaree firing after just signing all those players. They lost to Dinamo Zagreb, but to be fair, Dinamo Zagreb has beat some "bigger" teams recently. They I assume have to have someone in mind already before doing this?

    Yeah, Nots forest will probaly go down. We need Richie to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Maybe Mavinga also.
    Mavinga not starting over Miller or Waterman and Criscito & Laryea both not starting as neither would unseat Johnston.

    So the 2 DPs and one of Criscito or Laryea, so probably Laryea sits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Mavinga not starting over Miller or Waterman and Criscito & Laryea both not starting as neither would unseat Johnston.

    So the 2 DPs and one of Criscito or Laryea, so probably Laryea sits.
    Laryea and Johnston is a bit apples and oranges. As you’d never see Laryea in a back 3 and Johnston gets deployed as a fullback for totally different reasons than Laryea would.

    At the very least, would Laryea start over Choiničre on the left? 100% he would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Laryea and Johnston is a bit apples and oranges. As you’d never see Laryea in a back 3 and Johnston gets deployed as a fullback for totally different reasons than Laryea would.

    At the very least, would Laryea start over Choiničre on the left? 100% he would.
    What is the back story on Johnston? How did we not get him before he went to Nashville? Buchanon also was in our own backyard before he went down to Syracuse and then NE snagged him. Both have come back here to burn us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    What is the back story on Johnston? How did we not get him before he went to Nashville? Buchanon also was in our own backyard before he went down to Syracuse and then NE snagged him. Both have come back here to burn us.
    Tajon was yet another draft choice we could have had but elected to take someone else. Dorsey? We have a bad history of that which well-predates the current crop of management.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    ... They lost to Dinamo Zagreb, but to be fair, Dinamo Zagreb has beat some "bigger" teams recently...
    My father always made it known to me his admiration for the mental tenacity and physical play of < Eastern > European footballers and teams.
    Probably rooted in his childhood to adult memories of many of their performances during circa last mid-century.
    The Magyaroks/Hungary in WC '30's and '50's? Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia in 60's Euros? One of the Belgrade teams in a Euro Cup in the 60's?
    He had business dealings in the late 60's and 70's with Yugoslavia ( State ) export.
    At that time he traveled their a number of times. Lots of interesting stories.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 09-07-2022 at 01:31 PM.

 

 

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