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  1. #4951
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Still think Nelson is a defensive liability
    He has been slightly better. He at least tracked back with some speed instead of walking with his hands on his hips.

    He has improved to the point where he could possibly be a sub next year.

  2. #4952
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Still think Nelson is a defensive liability
    He is... yet... shows forward prowess; even if he eventually loses possession.
    A Bob 'The Builder' Bradley work in progress. Seems to be adjusting? For the better?
    Still be getting lots of match passes / touches from his teammates; involved.
    From the Italians; MBradley included. All others as well.
    Unfortunately, unlike JJ.
    Unexpected, even if he is a streaky footballer.
    Extended season; burned out?
    Needs to fight more to/for open space to engage.
    Com'on JJ, I am rooting for you!

  3. #4953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    He is... yet... shows forward prowess; even if he eventually loses possession.
    A Bob 'The Builder' Bradley work in progress. Seems to be adjusting? For the better?
    Still be getting lots of match passes / touches from his teammates; involved.
    From the Italians; MBradley included. All others as well.
    Unfortunately, unlike JJ.
    Unexpected, even if he is a streaky footballer.
    Extended season; burned out?
    Needs to fight more to/for open space to engage.
    Com'on JJ, I am rooting for you!
    On JJ, everything mentioned here earlier is likely - effects of an extended season, loss of Pozuelo, not the type of 9 the Italians seem to be calling for, and the three Italians and JJ not used to playing together.

    He does seem to have a streaky history but not sure if some of that has to do with whether he’s been used as a 9 or a winger.

    That long ball he ran on to a few matches ago and scored with fluid ease… before it was called back marginally offside suggests he’s just not getting the ball in the places he’s best.

  4. #4954
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    Quote Originally Posted by los sonadores View Post
    On JJ, everything mentioned here earlier is likely - effects of an extended season, loss of Pozuelo, not the type of 9 the Italians seem to be calling for, and the three Italians and JJ not used to playing together.

    He does seem to have a streaky history but not sure if some of that has to do with whether he’s been used as a 9 or a winger.

    That long ball he ran on to a few matches ago and scored with fluid ease… before it was called back marginally offside suggests he’s just not getting the ball in the places he’s best.
    Maybe TFC just needs a 'Sharon Fieldstone' for our 'Dani Rojas'?

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    I have this very strong feeling about Jorginho if Oso leaves this winter.

    It just seems a little too obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I have this very strong feeling about Jorginho if Oso leaves this winter.

    It just seems a little too obvious.
    Would love Jorginho but feel like thats a stretch. He for sure would have to be the highest paid player in MLS to consider it.

  7. #4957
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
    Would love Jorginho but feel like thats a stretch. He for sure would have to be the highest paid player in MLS to consider it.
    he'll be 31, probably would take less $$ than insigne.

    the downside would be having to wait til the summer to get him.

  8. #4958
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I have this very strong feeling about Jorginho if Oso leaves this winter.

    It just seems a little too obvious.
    I like the ambition.

  9. #4959
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    Keita Balde is an interesting current free agent. 27 years old. Senegal international with 40 games to his name. 3 goals in 23 games last season. Played for Series B side Cagliari Calico . Could be an interesting option
    Last edited by Valdal; 08-16-2022 at 06:51 PM.

  10. #4960
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    I think if Osorio signs with us again instead of Europe they'll offer Aaron Long a DP deal, if they don't offer Oso the spot.

    Watching him play with the Italians he might be worth it. Some guys up their game at each new opportunity.

    the way he has worked with Insigne and Bernardeschi, I think he's genuinely good enough to play in a top league. Maybe not a top team but At the same level as Dempsey and Holden before him, certainly.

    He might get the chance too if he crushes the end of this season and has an impressive World Cup.

  11. #4961
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I think if Osorio signs with us again instead of Europe they'll offer Aaron Long a DP deal, if they don't offer Oso the spot.

    Watching him play with the Italians he might be worth it. Some guys up their game at each new opportunity.

    the way he has worked with Insigne and Bernardeschi, I think he's genuinely good enough to play in a top league. Maybe not a top team but At the same level as Dempsey and Holden before him, certainly.

    He might get the chance too if he crushes the end of this season and has an impressive World Cup.
    If TFC won't give Oso a DP deal but give one to Aaron F*%king Long, people will riot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    If TFC won't give Oso a DP deal but give one to Aaron F*%king Long, people will riot.
    Truer words couldn’t be spoken, Aaron Long as a TFC DP Please stop it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Truer words couldn’t be spoken, Aaron Long as a TFC DP Please stop it
    Oh, I won’t disagree. I just think he’s the free agent this fall that all the GMs are drooling over, just because he’s a reasonably consistent centre half who also happens to be American. And our DP signer is American. And wants a CB anchor.

    It’s already been proposed by a couple of the American pundits as the “obvious” move to replace Oso if he goes. Seems incredibly low hanging. I wouldn’t take Miazga on DP money (ala Cincy) and he’s a better defender than Long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Oh, I won’t disagree. I just think he’s the free agent this fall that all the GMs are drooling over, just because he’s a reasonably consistent centre half who also happens to be American. And our DP signer is American. And wants a CB anchor.

    It’s already been proposed by a couple of the American pundits as the “obvious” move to replace Oso if he goes. Seems incredibly low hanging. I wouldn’t take Miazga on DP money (ala Cincy) and he’s a better defender than Long.
    Manning has stated that he wants a DP Centre-half?

  15. #4965
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    If we're signing a DP centre back it better be someone like Alessandro Bastoni or Gianluca Mancini. Long would be a solid max TAM signing, but a poor use of a DP slot. Given how the team is spending, I don't think we'd cheap out on our final DP.

  16. #4966
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I have this very strong feeling about Jorginho if Oso leaves this winter.

    It just seems a little too obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
    Would love Jorginho but feel like thats a stretch. He for sure would have to be the highest paid player in MLS to consider it.
    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    he'll be 31, probably would take less $$ than insigne.

    the downside would be having to wait til the summer to get him.
    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    I like the ambition.
    Why not swing for that fence?
    'Speed yellow... Go big or go home!'
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6b9c000...4-60c9a6dc9994
    Hold on to Osorio with all the creative MLS accounting you can, get Jorginho!
    Imagine... next summer... MB transitioning out as go to MID sub to a line of...
    ---Oso----Jorginho-----MAK---
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 08-17-2022 at 07:43 AM.

  17. #4967
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    ...Long would be a solid max TAM signing, but a poor use of a DP slot...
    Agree.
    He would be accustomed to / fit in with playing BB style football.
    IIUC, he is earning about 1M.
    If he is a target for TFC, MAX TAM would be about right.
    Not a DP candidate for me.

  18. #4968
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    I don't understand the idea of using a DP slot on anyone who makes anywhere close to what you can buy with TAM. You can literally spend anything you want on anyone in the world for the DP. Insigne and Bernardeschi are proof that TFC understand this concept. Shore up the defense with TAM and if Oso leaves that DP slot is going to an expensive CM. If he stays you're probably looking at a DP #9.

  19. #4969
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaceyWinger View Post
    I don't understand the idea of using a DP slot on anyone who makes anywhere close to what you can buy with TAM. You can literally spend anything you want on anyone in the world for the DP. Insigne and Bernardeschi are proof that TFC understand this concept. Shore up the defense with TAM and if Oso leaves that DP slot is going to an expensive CM. If he stays you're probably looking at a DP #9.
    They’ve already turned down offers from West Ham and Reading, with just one year left on his deal, and Liverpool and L’Orient are apparently monitoring him. He can’t be quite the dud some of the tone here suggests.

    He’s on $1.08M this season. (His last four years were $80K, 865K, 925K, so his price escalated quickly.) He might do max TAM but I doubt it. More likely his agent will tell him to try Saudi or China or England, where he can get more.

    I agree we can do better with DP money but as he’d be a cheaper DP I can see someone in MLS biting, given his solid play.
    Last edited by jloome; 08-17-2022 at 09:04 AM.

  20. #4970
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    I could be wrong but I don't think Osorio's going anywhere. He's over 30. He's playing out of his skin right now but he's playing in MLS. European teams and European fans have a negative bias towards MLS players. Giovinco came over here and scored a ton but got punted from the Azzuri ... the reason being he was playing in a sub standard league. Personally, I think MLS has grown much better than European's give credit for but an older player tearing it up in MLS and unproven in a European league is considered a risk. The one thing he's got going for him is that he's a free agent so no transfer fee but I think sane heads will prevail and Johnny Boy will see what happened with his buddie Richie and see that even if he's making good money, he's not guaranteed playing time. He might get rooted to the bench and feel like a bit of a failure. He'll also understand that he's a soon to be TFC Legend that over and above his playing salary, if he stays here until he retires he'll more than likely go the way of Danny Dichio, Dero, Caldwell etc. and in his position will more than likely be the Darryl Sittler of TFC with an income for a long long time as a goodwill ambassador for the team at the very least. Maybe he even ends up as an assistant coach to Michael Bradley for a while but if he leaves, there's no guarantee they'll take him back in that capacity after he retires ... just my humble thoughts on the matter ... high/max TAM with TFC is where he ends up.
    Last edited by buddies; 08-17-2022 at 10:10 AM.

  21. #4971
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    I just don't think Jonathan is or was ever good enough for a European team to gamble on, I he moves I think he would be better suited in Mexico or Central/South America, but that is not the glamour that these guys want or their agents for that matter!! Stick to where you are good quality, and get plated often, not sit on the bench or even just a mediocre reserve in Europe.MHO

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    While on the subject of roster discussion ... unless there's a personality conflict with one of the Italians, I'd love to know why TFC wouldn't want to sign Sebastian Giovinco on a short term contract till the end of the season. He's a free agent and wouldn't be any worse than Jiminez or Akinola. We're running out of runway in our quest to make the playoffs and depth at striker is a team weakness right now. It wouldn't hurt and it would give another TFC legend a proper swan song ... and he's Italian. His first game would be an automatic sellout that's for sure. I wouldn't expect the Seba of old but I would expect him to bury some of the chances JJ and Ayo have failed to convert over the last two or three months. We need that right now and after what we've gone through in the first half of the season, we could all use a feel good story to keep us occupied until the playoffs Y/N answer arrives.

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    Probably because he still thinks he deserves DP money. If he didn't want so much he most likely would have been on the team during preseason.

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    To acquire Gio we'd need to get the top spot in the allocation order and use an international roster slot. So it's probably ~$200-$400k GAM for the allocation spot and $75k for the international slot (unless we still have an unused one).

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    Giovinco's only played 37 minutes in the past 16 months. It is time to move on.

  26. #4976
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    I don’t think Laryea’s move will deter Oso.

    Richie wanted Europe + money and the championship was probably the best combo of the two but it also came with the risk of not playing (given the dynamics of lower prem / championship teams)

    There are euro moves Oso could make where he’d probably get 70% of MLS money and the experience of actually playing overseas. He just has to decide if that’s what he wants.

  27. #4977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derko View Post
    I just don't think Jonathan is or was ever good enough for a European team to gamble on, I he moves I think he would be better suited in Mexico or Central/South America, but that is not the glamour that these guys want or their agents for that matter!! Stick to where you are good quality, and get plated often, not sit on the bench or even just a mediocre reserve in Europe.MHO
    Forrest and Brennan both spent a decade-plus playing in England and are both convinced he can play at the highest level. Seeing him with the Italians and how he’s raised his game to a similar level of technical proficiency and decision-making, I think he could do serious minutes at a Premiership team, easily.

    I’ve watched a lot of Premier League last year and this, and people overestimate the skill gap. The biggest difference isn’t technical ability, it’s that the game here is tactically naive to an extreme.

    Christian Ramirez talked about it after he went to the SPL, that the tactical demands and what they were expected to rigidly stick to is much, much more disciplined than here.

    It’s not the skill of the player that gives a guy like Richie a disadvantage. It’s that they are beaten too easily by losing position, prescribed movement and concentration. He was pulled out of position twice, in back to back games, when he subbed on for Forest. In both cases, it gave the other team a solid chance on goal. That, combined with a sleight build, was probably all it took his manager to write him off.

    The fact that he set up a possible assist for Brennan Johnson in each game as well didn’t matter; he’s a wingback, primarily, and has to be able to play Championship-level defence first and foremost. And the suspicion there seemed to be — and the fans seemed to agree with this — that he couldn’t.

    Oso is another matter. If he can physically stand up to it, his read of the game is already first rate, his movement is first rate.

    We’ve seen him develop for so long that it’s like the frog who doesn’t notice he’s slowly boiling in water. It’s easy to lose appreciation for how effective he is when used in the right role, as a primarily attack-minded midfielder.

    If we had LI and Bernie, and played with a traditional anchor, I think Oso would get double digit goals every season now.

    We moved him all over the park during his career; he’s literally played as a six, an eight, a winger, a false nin/hole player, all for more than fill in duty.

    In that context, I think it’s very easy to underestimate his ability. And I say that as someone who in 2015 didnt think he would make it, because he was too lightweight, not athletic enough, not quick enough.

  28. #4978
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddies View Post
    I could be wrong but I don't think Osorio's going anywhere. He's over 30. He's playing out of his skin right now but he's playing in MLS. European teams and European fans have a negative bias towards MLS players. Giovinco came over here and scored a ton but got punted from the Azzuri ... the reason being he was playing in a sub standard league. Personally, I think MLS has grown much better than European's give credit for but an older player tearing it up in MLS and unproven in a European league is considered a risk. The one thing he's got going for him is that he's a free agent so no transfer fee but I think sane heads will prevail and Johnny Boy will see what happened with his buddie Richie and see that even if he's making good money, he's not guaranteed playing time. He might get rooted to the bench and feel like a bit of a failure. He'll also understand that he's a soon to be TFC Legend that over and above his playing salary, if he stays here until he retires he'll more than likely go the way of Danny Dichio, Dero, Caldwell etc. and in his position will more than likely be the Darryl Sittler of TFC with an income for a long long time as a goodwill ambassador for the team at the very least. Maybe he even ends up as an assistant coach to Michael Bradley for a while but if he leaves, there's no guarantee they'll take him back in that capacity after he retires ... just my humble thoughts on the matter ... high/max TAM with TFC is where he ends up.
    Exactly this… you understand Toronto and MLSE, the only thing imho that changes this is if it is Oso’s passion to play in Europe. Economically TFC and MLSE will make him far more money over the years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I don’t think Laryea’s move will deter Oso.

    Richie wanted Europe + money and the championship was probably the best combo of the two but it also came with the risk of not playing (given the dynamics of lower prem / championship teams)

    There are euro moves Oso could make where he’d probably get 70% of MLS money and the experience of actually playing overseas. He just has to decide if that’s what he wants.
    I feel the same way.

    Oso’s move would be about knowing he tried it and getting the experience. There’s an assumption here that Europe means Top 5 League as well. I don’t think that’s the case. I can see him moving if he gets to play Champions League, which last year included clubs he would definitely be able to start for like Club Brugge, Besiktas, Malmo, and Young Boys.

    Dark horse here could also be a move to major Libertadores teams.

    If he goes, he’ll probably always have the option to return barring any substantial change in circumstances for him or the club. If anything Richie’s leaving and subsequent return proves TFC will always be an option. I also don’t think him leaving the club for 1-3 years majorly impacts his legacy, especially when MB4 isn’t going anywhere meaning Oso won’t have a shot at the captaincy for a while.
    Last edited by portu; 08-17-2022 at 11:44 AM.

  30. #4980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Exactly this… you understand Toronto and MLSE, the only thing imho that changes this is if it is Oso’s passion to play in Europe. Economically TFC and MLSE will make him far more money over the years.
    That would be true in any other year.

    But if he scores and plays well at the World Cup those biases will disappear quite quickly. And he can get what he makes here in the Championship, or a middling Ligue 1
    team.

 

 

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