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  1. #3841
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^Oso value is going to skyrocket. He is going to score four goals in Qatar, including the extra time winner against Germany that puts Canada into the quarter finals. (You heard it here first.)
    There is only room in Toronto for either Oso or Toni Kroos!

  2. #3842
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    Lol. This reminds me, do you guys remember that kid who used to do some TFC videos. I think it was called chilling with cb2 or something?

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    My point wasn't about who we beat.

    My point is recency bias occurs. we have been bad of late. But there were games when the mood in here afterwards was upbeat. So when we think we are the worst team ever, its because we've been the worst team the last few weeks only.

    This happens in soccer fandom around the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    My point wasn't about who we beat.

    My point is recency bias occurs. we have been bad of late. But there were games when the mood in here afterwards was upbeat. So when we think we are the worst team ever, its because we've been the worst team the last few weeks only.

    This happens in soccer fandom around the world.
    In fairness, on a PPG basis we are dead last in the league. 28 of 28.

    I had a long ranty post typed.. but no point. Weíre all frustrated, even if opinions differ on what the future holds

  5. #3845
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    My point wasn't about who we beat.

    My point is recency bias occurs. we have been bad of late. But there were games when the mood in here afterwards was upbeat. So when we think we are the worst team ever, its because we've been the worst team the last few weeks only.

    This happens in soccer fandom around the world.
    We were the worst team in the middle. Then we won two (actually 1, the other was the Canadian Championship against Montreal) Now weíre the worst again. Doesnít scream a trajectory of improvement.
    Last edited by Canary10; 07-20-2022 at 09:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    We were the worst team in the middle. Then we won two (actually 1, the other was the Canadian Championship against Montreal) Now we’re the worst again. Doesn’t scream a trajectory of improvement.
    Tell that to us a few weeks ago when people were seeing a trajectory of improvement.

    This is football.

    Ya win, ya feel good about now & the future.

    They lose, they are bums & can never win & we have always felt this way.

    Do I think the team is going well right now? HECK no.

    But the idea that everybody all season was thinking this is a dumpster fire?!?!

    Come on, many of us remember the REALLY dumpster fire no hope years.

  7. #3847
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post

    Come on, many of us remember the REALLY dumpster fire no hope years.
    To be fair watching Nelson 'Nelsoning' out there and Kosi + Kerr standing around hoping to not get the ball started bringing back those old vibes.

    But I knew it was temporary so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I think we're falling into the 3 window rebuild due to some existing contracts and probably to assess the kids to see if any could step up.

    Winter 2022 - The Exodus
    Summer 2022 - Adding attack
    Winter 2023 - Adding defense

    I get the frustration but we papered over problems for so long that I am more comfortable with doing a full scale rebuild and not compromising for any 2022 results.

    That being said I would like to see some better play heading down the stretch. Like chance creation, maybe some goals, some faster play. Anything but the nothing we've been seeing recently.
    This seems like the formula that they are following. I am wondering if they chose this route with the mindset that it may be easier to bring in quality defenders during the winter window once they see an offensive juggernaut that we can potentially be. I said at the start of the year I didn't expect them to make the playoffs and I still do not. If we can win the Canadian Championship and just play a more consistent style of attack for the rest of the year I will be content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^Oso value is going to skyrocket. He is going to score four goals in Qatar, including the extra time winner against Germany that puts Canada into the quarter finals. (You heard it here first.)

    You are leaving out his injury time golazo from the top of the box to beat Croatia

  10. #3850
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    I really think the setup of “the cavalry is coming” combined with “the boss is a drill sargeant whose drill sargeant son is the captain” is about as bad a locker room setup as I can imagine. I blame that for our form, I don’t think the kids are this bad, all of them including Kosi and Nelson have had good days… I doubt this environment is any good for them at all.
    Last edited by ensco; 07-21-2022 at 06:30 AM.
    "There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I really think the setup of “the cavalry is coming” combined with “the boss is a drill sargeant whose drill sargeant son is the captain” is about as bad a locker room setup as I can imagine. I blame that for our form, I don’t think the kids are this bad, all of them including Kosi and Nelson have had good days… I doubt this environment is any good for them at all.
    We've had 0 dps and a team full of kids my man.

    It's the quality of plsyer that's killing us.

    Should turn around quickly

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Tell that to us a few weeks ago when people were seeing a trajectory of improvement.

    This is football.

    Ya win, ya feel good about now & the future.

    They lose, they are bums & can never win & we have always felt this way.

    Do I think the team is going well right now? HECK no.

    But the idea that everybody all season was thinking this is a dumpster fire?!?!

    Come on, many of us remember the REALLY dumpster fire no hope years.
    3 of our 5 wins came before April 16. If anything it looks like we're regressing.

    Of course I remember the true dumpster fire years. I sat through them too. I'm not comparing to that. I'm looking at the team over the season so far and don't see noticeable improvement, which makes the results harder to take for me. I'd be in a better frame of mind if we were playing better football at least, and there were some signs we were moving in the right direction. Instead, we're waiting for the cavalry, as Ensco aptly put it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    We've had 0 dps and a team full of kids my man.

    It's the quality of plsyer that's killing us.

    Should turn around quickly
    Unfortunately, considering the TFC academiesí history, I donít think we should expect much from the kids. It appears that the oldest group of graduates has been given the opportunity to make a place for themselves or move on. It sucks, but I donít think most of them were really prepared for the rigours of the first team. That could be Bobís fault, or just as likely, the system that nurtured them until now.
    If the academy is inherently flawed, hopefully Bob can right the ship.

  14. #3854
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    I think it's a bit of a stretch to look at the bottom ranked team in MLS (On points per game) and say recency bias is why people aren't happy with the team. They're literally the worst team in MLS over the course of the season so far

    Now, that doesn't mean Bob Bradley should be fired. For right or wrong, this season is a write off, and the goal is to have a very expensive team moulded in Bobs image next year and that may yet work out, so the point of being patient is fair. But there's no way to spin the performances this season as anything other than consistently awful from start to finish, you don't sit as the worst team in the league after half a season without that being true.

  15. #3855
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I really think the setup of “the cavalry is coming” combined with “the boss is a drill sargeant whose drill sargeant son is the captain” is about as bad a locker room setup as I can imagine. I blame that for our form, I don’t think the kids are this bad, all of them including Kosi and Nelson have had good days… I doubt this environment is any good for them at all.
    Never heard the drill sargeant claim about BB prior in his previous jobs. Michael yes but that shit works well usually with young players. They appreciate the structure of a vet setting hard examples. It doesn't work so good with guys like VDW and most likely Soteldo though.

    And I get the 'cavalry' being a negative but that's flawed logic unless our academy kids don't have the mentality required to be professional footballers. They literally got an open opportunity to win a job (starting or back up, here or elsewhere) and they didn't get benched to rot when they made terrible errors. If I were a guy like Kosi or Kerr I would have said "F*ck it!" and thrown caution to wind and pulled a Richie Laryea at every opportunity. Remember Richie was a nobody when we got him from Orlando and he pretty much did the same thing; run right at the defenses at every chance and see what happens and for him it paid off large. The literal blueprint was right there for all to see. If one of these kids did that consistently we wouldn't be so negative now and they'd have guaranteed themselves a job of some sort going forward. Now there's no guarantees for any of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I really think the setup of “the cavalry is coming” combined with “the boss is a drill sargeant whose drill sargeant son is the captain” is about as bad a locker room setup as I can imagine. I blame that for our form, I don’t think the kids are this bad, all of them including Kosi and Nelson have had good days… I doubt this environment is any good for them at all.
    Yeah, it could get interesting quickly. My only solace is the Italian and their super agents would have enough clout to put an end to it if things got dysfunctional. These guys wouldnít accept coming here to lose.

    The grey middle ground remains a real possibility though. Skate through on high-end talent but fail to win the big stuff due to over tactical zealously and being too stubborn to address weaker areas of the team. Basically, LAFC part 2.

    In my books we make MLS cup finals next year or Bob gets canned and takes Michael with him. Tough business but I see no reason why we should accept anything less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Never heard the drill sargeant claim about BB prior in his previous jobs. Michael yes but that shit works well usually with young players. They appreciate the structure of a vet setting hard examples. It doesn't work so good with guys like VDW and most likely Soteldo though.

    And I get the 'cavalry' being a negative but that's flawed logic unless our academy kids don't have the mentality required to be professional footballers. They literally got an open opportunity to win a job (starting or back up, here or elsewhere) and they didn't get benched to rot when they made terrible errors. If I were a guy like Kosi or Kerr I would have said "F*ck it!" and thrown caution to wind and pulled a Richie Laryea at every opportunity. Remember Richie was a nobody when we got him from Orlando and he pretty much did the same thing; run right at the defenses at every chance and see what happens and for him it paid off large. The literal blueprint was right there for all to see. If one of these kids did that consistently we wouldn't be so negative now and they'd have guaranteed themselves a job of some sort going forward. Now there's no guarantees for any of them.
    Richie was a high pick and was cut by orl . he was 23 when he joined tfc played on a vet team not with 4 or 5 starters that are 18 19 playing out of postion,frankly your hate for the young kids is getting boring

  18. #3858
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    Richie was a high pick and was cut by orl . he was 23 when he joined tfc played on a vet team not with 4 or 5 starters that are 18 19 playing out of postion,frankly your hate for the young kids is getting boring
    This is a good point on Richie. A team can handle having ~2 development players in the lineup at a single time, but when half the lineup is like that it's hard to cover for them. If it was just Nelson and Petrasso playing, I bet they'd look quite good, instead we have those two plus Kerr, Kosi, sometimes Akinola/Priso/Okello/Lukas

  19. #3859
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    Richie was a high pick and was cut by orl . he was 23 when he joined tfc played on a vet team not with 4 or 5 starters that are 18 19 playing out of postion,frankly your hate for the young kids is getting boring
    Not hate, disappointment.

    Not in talent because they have shown they all have talent. In failing to grasp a good opportunity.

    Also you missed my point. Doesn't matter if the whole XI were 18 or 19, doesn't matter if we won, doesn't matter if we looked good. If one player such as Kosi just made positive runs and advanced the ball (like Schaff did last season for example) we would be talking about him for the future and how he would have earned MLS value as shown with Schaff, who has suitors now. This is what bothered me. Their age, the team around him, and all that is irrelevent for this first half season. And through watching BB's pressers he frequently mentions he has asked players to do just this, but they didn't. Osorio also mentioned this.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 07-21-2022 at 10:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Yeah, it could get interesting quickly. My only solace is the Italian and their super agents would have enough clout to put an end to it if things got dysfunctional. These guys wouldn’t accept coming here to lose.

    The grey middle ground remains a real possibility though. Skate through on high-end talent but fail to win the big stuff due to over tactical zealously and being too stubborn to address weaker areas of the team. Basically, LAFC part 2.

    In my books we make MLS cup finals next year or Bob gets canned and takes Michael with him. Tough business but I see no reason why we should accept anything less.
    Perhaps making the MLS Cup final is a high bar? But I agree, expectations are really high next year. For example, if we finish top 2 or 3 in the east and don't make MLS Cup, Bob will not and should not be fired. Also, if we make a champions league run or a supporters shield run, but don't get to the cup final, the year will be a successful building block.

    I have faith in Bob Bradley and for some reasons I still rate Michael's work rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    Perhaps making the MLS Cup final is a high bar? But I agree, expectations are really high next year. For example, if we finish top 2 or 3 in the east and don't make MLS Cup, Bob will not and should not be fired. Also, if we make a champions league run or a supporters shield run, but don't get to the cup final, the year will be a successful building block.

    I have faith in Bob Bradley and for some reasons I still rate Michael's work rate.
    It is a high bar but I donít think we should accept less. Insigne isnít going to be better in three years time. the DPís are built to win now and should be doing as much. Iron out the kinks this season.

    I view the supporters shield as nice to have but a false economy. I bet the average person on here would struggle to name the winners in the last 3 years. Some teams transparently donít give a rats ass about their regular season results. Thereís no relegation fear at the bottom. Schedules are unbalanced. This is primarily a cup-driven league.

    Iíll accept Champions League Finals in place of MLS cup finals but otherwise not looking for any excuses. Weíre spending more on and off the field than everyone else and basically through the end of this coming offseason the preceding 18 months will have been almost entirely about planning for future success.

    Next year is time for Manning and Bob to step up or get out. If they wanted more rope they should have rebuilt faster. Nobody should be watching multiple years of suck for one almost top of table finish and a mid round playoff exit. Not on our budget.

  22. #3862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Not hate, disappointment.

    Not in talent because they have shown they all have talent. In failing to grasp a good opportunity.

    Also you missed my point. Doesn't matter if the whole XI were 18 or 19, doesn't matter if we won, doesn't matter if we looked good. If one player such as Kosi just made positive runs and advanced the ball (like Schaff did last season for example) we would be talking about him for the future and how he would have earned MLS value as shown with Schaff, who has suitors now. This is what bothered me. Their age, the team around him, and all that is irrelevent for this first half season. And through watching BB's pressers he frequently mentions he has asked players to do just this, but they didn't. Osorio also mentioned this.
    i get what you are saying,but it doesnt help when tfc are down early and down by 2 at the half and teams playing 8 guys back.
    very body rates schaff,so why isnt BB playing him,or starting rutty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post

    In my books we make MLS cup finals next year or Bob gets canned and takes Michael with him. Tough business but I see no reason why we should accept anything less.
    The Italians come from a football culture where the stars take out the manager if they are unhappy for a month.

    We will either have MB (if it works) or have Ancelotti (if it doesn't) here as the mister by 2024.
    "There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff

  24. #3864
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The Italians come from a football culture where the stars take out the manager if they are unhappy for a month.

    We will either have MB (if it works) or have Ancelotti (if it doesn't) here as the mister by 2024.
    I thought Ancelotti was going to by Canada's manager post World Cup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    if we finish top 2 or 3 in the east and don't make MLS Cup, Bob will not and should not be fired.
    I understand the point your making here, which is good and makes sense, but there are people who talk about Bob Bradley getting fired... guys, this myopic viewpoint of success/failure based on this year is really short-sighted.

    This year is a wash, guys. BB understands this, the Front Office understands this, and I'm pretty sure that Manning's report to ownership ensures they understand this too. Any results we get this year are great, but it's working towards next year and beyond because MLS rules prevent us from just buying our way out of whatever crap Curtis and Armas (and maybe Vanney to a lesser extent, because he could have had the foresight to start pulling weeds out when he had the chance, but is slavish to his guys) put us in. And to be fair, BB did remarkable work getting us out from Altidore's contract, Soteldo, and possibly other people who were detrimental to the team dynamic. Man, the DP's haven't even played 1 minute, and Salcedo was a shot in the dark and may have paid off if Canadian immigration laws didn't put a damper on things and we actually got a decent partner in the back with him (maybe this would have changed next year?).

    Look, i'm upset that the results aren't there, but look at the standard of the league today vs. the talent/experience we have after a massive turnover and stretching what we can do based on the rules of the league - why are we surprised? Expansion teams are actually decent (wish we had the parity rules and ownership group we have today when we were conceived; maybe it wouldn't have taken us almost a decade to reach success).

    I'm have low expectations for this year, holding out hope that I'm pleasantly surprised, a good product is on the field, and the signs of what is to come will be made visible to us. I'm more bullish on the next few seasons, and will be more demanding of results then. Until that time, meh, hoping I swear less in front of my kids at the TV when the game is on.

  26. #3866
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    I think it's a bit of a stretch to look at the bottom ranked team in MLS (On points per game) and say recency bias is why people aren't happy with the team. They're literally the worst team in MLS over the course of the season so far

    Now, that doesn't mean Bob Bradley should be fired. For right or wrong, this season is a write off, and the goal is to have a very expensive team moulded in Bobs image next year and that may yet work out, so the point of being patient is fair. But there's no way to spin the performances this season as anything other than consistently awful from start to finish, you don't sit as the worst team in the league after half a season without that being true.
    Pretty much. Though I still think there's an outside chance we could squeak into the playoffs if the new guys light it up.

    But very outside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    i get what you are saying,but it doesnt help when tfc are down early and down by 2 at the half and teams playing 8 guys back.
    very body rates schaff,so why isnt BB playing him,or starting rutty?
    I would have used Shaff for sure. I understand he wouldn't beat LI for that spot so I get the FB attempt but he should have had more chances. JMR I am still scared of getting hurt. When he went down a week ago I thought he was finished for the year again. I don't really mind taking it slow with him.

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    We need 4 new starters for the backline, and possibly 2 more in the midfield for next season. You can't really expect to make finals with that many new players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    We need 4 new starters for the backline, and possibly 2 more in the midfield for next season. You can't really expect to make finals with that many new players.
    Getting rid of Criscito already?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I would have used Shaff for sure. I understand he wouldn't beat LI for that spot so I get the FB attempt but he should have had more chances. JMR I am still scared of getting hurt. When he went down a week ago I thought he was finished for the year again. I don't really mind taking it slow with him.
    Bob has spoken several times about being cautious with players so there arenít negative long term impacts. If JMR is really just about to be sold, then cautiousness seems warranted.

 

 

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