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  1. #4711
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    Let's just wait and see if we end up trading for an allocation spot - should find out by the end of today. FWIW, Bogert and Platt both said TFC would need to acquire the top allocation spot. Although this seems like it could be a fringe rule that we can use to get around it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Imagine going on an Arsenal board and having people arguing about allocation orders and shit.
    But but but.... parity.

    last weekends scores: 2-1, 0-0, 0-0, 0-0, 0-0, 1-1, 2-2, 4-4,4-4, 5-4.

    like... im
    sure the bookies love that shit, but it might be a little too much parity.

  3. #4713
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I stand corrected Mike, apologies. Perhaps it isn't referenced in the regs because until recently loans always had to include a buy option.

    or it might be that Clark was a particular complexity of their arcane rules et, as he was a loan back as a provision of the sale, possible because RB own both clubs,whereas Richie has been gone for six months
    and we have no tie to Forest.

    Perhaps they'll drop that we sent whoever has the spot 250k or something.
    No worries, man. I have no idea what MLS is even thinking with this structure.

  4. #4714
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Pedantic intervention: it's Notts County. It's NEVER Notts Forest.
    Easiest way to piss off a Nottingham Forest fan.
    I'm Liverpool - started with them in the early 70's - this wording rolls naturally out of the brain

  5. #4715
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I'm Liverpool - started with them in the early 70's - this wording rolls naturally out of the brain
    You're a very naughty scouser.
    Two teams called The Reds in the same division; I'm sure Liverpool is trembling with fear, said absolutely nobody.

  6. #4716
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Interesting details here. Pretty sure this means Richie is now the highest paid fullback in MLS.
    You guys are all so fast to reply in this thread today, this is now two pages old...also I realize he left last season but I believe Ali Adnan from the whitecaps was on 1.2 Million...so kind of a moot point since Ritchie might be the highest paid now..or possibly Criscito as some have mentioned

  7. #4717
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    I'm surprised they're paying Richie's full salary. This team seems to just try to finish negotiations as quickly as possible. Pays Kemar Lawrence and Auro in full to get rid of them on loan, takes in Laryea on full. I'm sure we could have tried to get Nottingham to pay some such as we'll pay 925k of his 1.1 which is what our original offer was, so that they didn't have him sitting there being paid in full and not playing. Every couple hundred thousand is valuable in MLS.

    Granted they probably knew they had us in a spot with our window closing today and Europe's open for another month. Really wish FIFA could organize uniform windows for the world
    Last edited by rydermike; 08-04-2022 at 04:17 PM.

  8. #4718
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    Every couple hundred thousand is valuable in MLS.
    See what happens next year. Lots of stories floating of some cap loosening next year. Everything conjecture but I can see GAM added.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Yes I was referring to the EPL and Championship. The track record of North American players going over there especially at an older age is not very good.
    As odd as this is going to sound, the worst thing that could have happened to Richie was Forest's promotion to the EPL. I have no basis for my opinion but my sense is that Richie would have had a very positive impact for Forest in the Championship but the EPL, not so much (maybe).

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    Let's just wait and see if we end up trading for an allocation spot - should find out by the end of today. FWIW, Bogert and Platt both said TFC would need to acquire the top allocation spot. Although this seems like it could be a fringe rule that we can use to get around it.
    Management doesn’t deserve the faith y’all put in them.

  12. #4722
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    I honestly don't have any issue with renting him, permanent or not. If this was some random English player with a similar skill level people would be excited. Why do people hate our own?

    There's no question he's a TAM quality player. There's no question that we needed quality on defense, just a couple of weeks ago everyone was moaning about our defense. Now we got a TAM defender and people are complaining?

    Honestly the discussion here is frustrating.

    @portu - I have the impression, possibly false, that you've literally hated every move this club has made from Bez's time until today. Please correct me if I am wrong. Isn't there something that you've liked over the last 7 years? What about that Italian guy we had for a few years that scored those amazing goals?


  13. #4723
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    if they can't get the full time rb signing they wanted
    what harm is renting Richie for a
    year?

    Again we got a substantial fee for him, he's a top rb I this league...


    What am I not seeing here? I can't understand why anyone would see this on balance as a negative.

    Factor in the transfer fee and he's basically playing for free for us for six months past what would have been the end of his old deal.

    again, he wanted to go. We either let him go when he wanted or we risked getting nothing out of it.
    I don’t see any negatives here. The price is right given the fee we’ve already received; he’s proven to be among the best in the league; our right back situation was shit; he was probably the player who most suited Bradley’s system when Bradley arrived; he’s a hometown guy who needs minutes for world cup duty. What’s not to like?
    Last edited by los sonadores; 08-04-2022 at 06:28 PM.

  14. #4724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I honestly don't have any issue with renting him, permanent or not. If this was some random English player with a similar skill level people would be excited. Why do people hate our own?

    There's no question he's a TAM quality player. There's no question that we needed quality on defense, just a couple of weeks ago everyone was moaning about our defense. Now we got a TAM defender and people are complaining?

    Honestly the discussion here is frustrating.

    @portu - I have the impression, possibly false, that you've literally hated every move this club has made from Bez's time until today. Please correct me if I am wrong. Isn't there something that you've liked over the last 7 years? What about that Italian guy we had for a few years that scored those amazing goals?
    On a general basis, I think the club has struggled to maximize it’s potential since ~2018. I think the front office is generally flaccid, slow, and closed-minded when it comes to making major deals (I wrote up a summary of that a couple weeks ago in this thread). If they were small-market, low-budget, then I would be more charitable, but they burn cash regularly and like to brag.

    There are things to like about a lot of the moves that are made and I’ll give it credit in whatever respect it’s due, but (1) there are enough people singing exclusive praises on this board and (2) the deal execution is almost always garbage.

    To the above point: I thought the Shaff deal was excellent, but I think the Laryea deal is garbage management and excellent on the pitch (as I’ve already said in both cases).

    In MLS, specifically, deals aren’t just “player = good = good signing” because every move you make limits your ability to make others. Deals are therefore about maximizing value, not just acquiring the best possible player. You cannot Transfermarkt search CanMNT/Serie A/USMNT and fill a squad like you might in a normal (and righteous) world. If you do, you’re probably fucking the other deals you try to make by artificially limiting your talent pool, squeezing your budget, and pigeon-holing players into the XI. There is a budget to maximize and that doesn’t change if Larry T snaps his fingers and feels like burning more money (beyond discretionary TAM). What use is a Ferrari sitting on blocks?

    I could write excessively but I’m actively trying not to and likely already have anyway.

    Here’s a list of signings I’ve liked from all aspects this year:
    - Insigne
    - Bernadeschi
    - MacNaughton
    - Henry
    - Jimenez
    - O’Neil

  15. #4725
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Management doesn’t deserve the faith y’all put in them.
    If you don't like the move, that's fine. Was more focused that we were debating obscure MLS rules that no one really understands, so it's probably best to just wait a few hours for the announcements to be made and we can see what happens then.

  16. #4726
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    I think a decent percentage of the fan base deep down enjoys our failures, no matter how small, so that they can go on the interwebs and be heard complaining. When things go too well or good moves get done, they're invisible.

    Then there's some that will always question management no matter what. Could be making moves where the newly acquired players are fitting in and we're improving but they're being dismissed as lazy moves. I know a bunch of supporters from various Euro sides and even with Man City for example, they still complain about Pep's tactics, team is too old, the owners aren't 'football' people, etc. Some people just will never be happy with any FO or management team and will always be looking for things to question.

    For me, I don't care how lazy the recruitment might be. They could put names on a dart board and throw darts blindfolded to choose signings and if they came, fit in, and we improved I wouldn't care or question it.

  17. #4727
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    On a general basis, I think the club has struggled to maximize it’s potential since ~2018. I think the front office is generally flaccid, slow, and closed-minded when it comes to making major deals (I wrote up a summary of that a couple weeks ago in this thread). If they were small-market, low-budget, then I would be more charitable, but they burn cash regularly and like to brag.

    There are things to like about a lot of the moves that are made and I’ll give it credit in whatever respect it’s due, but (1) there are enough people singing exclusive praises on this board and (2) the deal execution is almost always garbage.
    Here is a perfect example and unless we are all wrong, why leak that Laryea is coming unless you have the allocation and GAM put to bed? Now we are all speculating that a deal needs to be done and we have played our hand. The guys in 1-5 allocation order now know they have TFC in a weak position and can demand more. If you have the GAM deal done, then make that part of the leak and say pending league approval.

    Every deal lately feels like there is a leak and then we wait and debate and get irritated with each other… personally I dont think above comments are offensive or irrational. Just my two cents.

  18. #4728
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    On a general basis, I think the club has struggled to maximize it’s potential since ~2018. I think the front office is generally flaccid, slow, and closed-minded when it comes to making major deals (I wrote up a summary of that a couple weeks ago in this thread). If they were small-market, low-budget, then I would be more charitable, but they burn cash regularly and like to brag.

    There are things to like about a lot of the moves that are made and I’ll give it credit in whatever respect it’s due, but (1) there are enough people singing exclusive praises on this board and (2) the deal execution is almost always garbage.

    To the above point: I thought the Shaff deal was excellent, but I think the Laryea deal is garbage management and excellent on the pitch (as I’ve already said in both cases).

    In MLS, specifically, deals aren’t just “player = good = good signing” because every move you make limits your ability to make others. Deals are therefore about maximizing value, not just acquiring the best possible player. You cannot Transfermarkt search CanMNT/Serie A/USMNT and fill a squad like you might in a normal (and righteous) world. If you do, you’re probably fucking the other deals you try to make by artificially limiting your talent pool, squeezing your budget, and pigeon-holing players into the XI. There is a budget to maximize and that doesn’t change if Larry T snaps his fingers and feels like burning more money (beyond discretionary TAM). What use is a Ferrari sitting on blocks?

    I could write excessively but I’m actively trying not to and likely already have anyway.

    Here’s a list of signings I’ve liked from all aspects this year:
    - Insigne
    - Bernadeschi
    - MacNaughton
    - Henry
    - Jimenez
    - O’Neil

    I disagree with a bunch of this but I'ma gonna say I really appreciate the even keeled critical perspective.



    Thanks for adding reputation to this user. May you be lucky enough to receive the same Reputation back in turn.

  19. #4729
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    the deal execution is almost always garbage.
    Which deals besides Pozuelo were executed poorly in your opinion?

  20. #4730
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Notes on Manning’s Incoming Signings without Bezbatchenko*

    DPs - Of the 7 DPs signed by Manning sans Bezbatchenko (Pozuelo, Altidore, Piatti, Soteldo, Salcedo, Insigne, Bernadeschi) only Salcedo has ever been in the 18 for the first match of the season or summer window. Only Pozuelo and Altidore have lasted more than a season. In the year they were signed (or re-signed) none participated in the start of pre-season and only Salcedo was present for any part of pre-season. Insigne and Bernadeschi are the only signings which remain on the roster.^

    TAM^^ - Of the 7 TAM signings by Manning sans Bezbatchenko (Gonzalez, Gallardo, Benezet, Lawrence, Jimenez, Criscito, Kaye) only Jimenez and Criscito have been in the 18 for the first match of the season or summer window. Only Gonzalez and Gallardo have lasted more than a season. In the year they were signed, none participated in the start of pre-season and only Jimenez was present for any part of pre-season. Jimenez, Criscito and Kaye are the only signings which remain on the roster.^

    Notable - Former TAM player Auro’s option was exercised at the end of 2021 before he was loaned to Brazil months later. The MLSPA 2022 Guide shows TFC on the hook for 400k in salary for Auro.

    *Note on Recorded Info: Time period captured was from Bezbatchenko’s departure (04/01/2019) to present, with the assumption that Bernadeschi signs as a DP.

    ^Note on 2022 signings: Jimenez, Salcedo, Insigne, Criscito, Kaye and Bernadeschi were all signed in 2022.

    ^^Note on TAM Scope: Exercising of contract options was not counted as re-signings. However, inclusion of these would mean counting Mavinga (2019) and Osorio (2021) as TAM signings.
    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    The primary goal of looking into this was to see if I was crazy for thinking we take forever with impact-level signings. Quickly it became clear that we rarely if ever get a guy into the 18 for MLS play (let alone CCL) at first possible instance. When I began to see the trend of the signing dates, it was clear that we also don’t even get guys in for pre-season so that they can gel with the team and acclimate.

    In fact, the last time a TAM-level guy was in the 18 for the 1st MLS match was Vazquez in 2017 (came off the bench). Before that was Will Johnson in 2016 (started).

    An interesting trend from 2015-2017 was that important guys were signed in time for at least part of pre-season and the first match. Giovinco, Altidore, Moor, Johnson, Beitashour, Vazquez, Mavinga (out with a knock for game 1) were all critical members for the best seasons this club has ever had. 2015, 2016 and 2017 represent the 5th, 3rd and 1st spots for PPG in club history. 2020 (2nd best) had almost no major turnover which meant that everyone was together for a full pre-season. 2019 (4th best) was barely better than the 2015 year (difference of +.03 PPG) where Kantari/Perquis/Williams/Jackson were regular backline fixtures. (PPG is a better indicator for performance than playoff performance because of sample size.)
    In case people wonder why I care about signings coming about slowly.

  21. #4731
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    In case people wonder why I care about signings coming about slowly.
    But pointing out the successful years with no turnover and having intact rosters in the pre-season doesn't really apply to this season with the amount of players who needed to go and how many need to be brought in. If ever there was a three window rebuild then this was it. Plus I'd rather them take time and get it right rather than pull the trigger fast in an obvious rebuild year and get another Soteldo.

  22. #4732
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    OK OK OK, enough already!
    Has Richie landed?
    No welcome (back) reception??
    Where are the rollerblades???

  23. #4733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luanda View Post
    OK OK OK, enough already!
    Has Richie landed?
    No welcome (back) reception??
    Where are the rollerblades???
    Seconded! And definitely worthy of a welcome back reception.

  24. #4734
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    In case people wonder why I care about signings coming about slowly.
    It’s a valid point that he only reacts, for the most part, rather than proactively driving an agenda or plan.

    I will also note, however, that if we somehow pull of this run and make the playoffs, this is a very dangerous team right now, and success hides any number of blemishes.

  25. #4735
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    There is / has been discussion about TFC roster depth; how to address it.
    About the use or no need of utilitarian like players as DeLeon; MLS 2.0.
    Some are arguing that LAFC is, especially with their most recent moves, among the deepest; a juggernaut.
    A part of me enjoys some relief in that notion because of BB's role to get them most of the way there.
    As Head Coach and I speculate 'unofficially... Sporting / Director / of Football Operations'?
    Of course, in part with John Thorington's assistance as well as now with Marco Garces' and Steve Cherundolo continuance.
    For such a discussion they have the likes of Latif Blessing and have just signed Denis Bouanga; likely a DP but maybe a Max TAM?
    Regardless of their juxtaposing salaries, two players that likely could cover about 2/3 of a pitches positions in jams.
    Perhaps that is the sort of 'experienced' starting or rotational depth TFC should strive for.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 08-04-2022 at 06:59 PM.

  26. #4736
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    $225k for the allocation spot. We sold the #2 spot for $575k earlier this year. A good piece of business.

  27. #4737
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post

    $225k for the allocation spot. We sold the #2 spot for $575k earlier this year. A good piece of business.
    Alright. We loaned Shaff for the rights to bring Laryea back for 12 months. I am okay with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Alright. We sold Shaff for the rights to bring Laryea back for 12 months. I am okay with it.

    If Nashville buy him that'll be an additional fee I think

  29. #4739
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post

    $225k for the allocation spot. We sold the #2 spot for $575k earlier this year. A good piece of business.
    Then agreed. If true, a good piece of business and very glad to see Richie getting playing time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leedsandTFC View Post
    If Nashville buy him that'll be an additional fee I think
    Really hope the Nova Scotian lad shows out in Nashville. Both for him and TFC.

 

 

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