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  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Dude, I find your posts excellent generally but you've sort of skipped by the important part here rather quickly. He let his old friend run our club into the ground for four years, from being one of the league's powerhouses to being one of the weakest rosters out there, in need of a total rebuild.

    He didn't just fuck the dog, he tortured it, starved it, left it marooned alone on an island for years then came back reluctantly and shot it.

    Hiring someone utterly incompetent and misreading their persona and capabilities that badly is disqualifying for a club president.

    If one fucks up that badly, he gets very little time to set it right, because he deserves very little time.

    If we haven't gotten stronger in two windows, I'll be very surprised as -- as you mentioned -- I'm sure Bradley made sure he had carte blanche, within budgetary constraints.

    But Manning seemed awfully involved in Insigne, or made himself seem such. He can't claim on the one hand to be involved in signing our biggest player but then also have no responsibility for the others.

    Beyond all that, there's the mere fact that he did not have the judgement --as even many on this board did, and we're all rank amateurs -- to look at the players Curtis was signing and say, "uhhh.... NO."

    If he doesn't have even the most basic understanding of how this league has transitioned to a more competitive level, how can he possibly assess whether the people he picks to run it are doing a good job?

    On evidence, he can't.

    EDIT: I will, for the sake of balance, note that I believe he got it right with Bradley. It's just that Bradley is a patient builder. He's not going to sign stopgaps. If he couldn't get exactly the players on his list (or the backup options etc), he's not going to grab 'available' seat fillers. And unlike Curtis, he's not incredibly limited in his knowledge of options.

    Let's see what happens in the summer. But Manning's redemption sort of depends on BB nailing it. Again, on evidence, he'll build a winning team.
    I agree with so much of this.

    I think the apologists are also strawmanning arguments here. No one on this board expects to title contend every year. Nor was it an expectation that the club make everything happen in one window.

    How in the ever loving fuck can you not sign some fullbacks when you have ZERO. That's just so beyond the pale and the FO is already skating given their willful ignorance and fuckery for the last 3 years.

    The bar for being competitive in this league is very fucking low, so to miss out on playoffs or not put together a roster that doesn't look pathetic is very hard.

    Manning is accountable.
    Last edited by portu; 05-07-2022 at 12:19 PM.

  2. #542
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    Insigne has two games left in his season. I wonder if he'll be released early to us. Technically, they could demand compensation if we want him before the July window.

  3. #543
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    I don't believe we can register Insigne prior to July 7 because he has been under contract to another club prior to our secondary window opening.
    Here is the explanation from the MLS Roster Rules:

    The transfer windows are the periods in which MLS teams can officially register any new players who were previously under contract with clubs based outside MLS and for which an International Transfer Certificate (ITC) is required. While deals may be agreed upon outside these windows, the transfer and receipt of an ITC are required in order to officially add a player to a roster, thus allowing him to be eligible for official competitions.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I agree with so much of this.
    I too am pretty much aligned with jloome and Portu here. I've not heard anyone argue Manning's performance in the last transfer window is reason for moving on from him. Rather, the members here have articulated a long list of grievances over the three years prior to the most recent window. It's his performance prior to the last window that gives people little confidence he is the right person to lead the organization forward. So, I don't agree with the argument that Manning needs/deserves several more windows. I do agree someone needs/deserves several windows to sort things out. But like others, I'd prefer it not be Manning.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    How in the ever loving fuck can you not sign some fullbacks when you have ZERO. That's just so beyond the pale and the FO is already skating given their willful ignorance and fuckery for the last 3 years.
    Portu, you (among others) have made this argument well before the first ball was kicked this season. I agree with you wholeheartedly. During the pre-season this board was full of comments from knowledgable members who were utterly mystified at the roster construction of this team, and accurately predicted not just the woeful results but what the on-field product would look like. So either we are paying to see a product built by an incompetent front office, or we are paying to see a product born of hubris and a FO that underestimates the savvy of the supporters. Either way, it makes me want to keep my money in my pocket. And lest I be painted with the brush of expecting a quick-fix, I assure you, I understand the multi-window reboot we are now facing. But it needn't have been this way.

  6. #546
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    I think they thought both Auro & Richie would stay.

    Auro was in training at the beginning - something happened.

    That having been said, we've been light at FB since 2017.

  7. #547
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    BTW, for those who think we are the worst, I present to you the FB for the best defensive team in the league, so far.


  8. #548
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    Toronto FC announced today that the club has added defender Themi Antonoglou (Homegrown contract) along with Kobe Franklin, Paul Rothrock, and Steffen Yeates (short-term loan agreements from Toronto FC II).

    https://www.torontofc.ca/news/toronto-adds-antonoglou-franklin-rothrock-and-yeates-to-weekend-roster

    How many more inexperienced youth are we going to sign, this experiment is failed
    , and now we have to rely even more on the kids, i can understand a sporadic appearance or being on the bench, but to be relying this much on youth, I certainly feel Manning thinks us fans will watch even if pylons were on the field and is trying to cash in on this, its a pure crying shame
    Last edited by gracos; 05-07-2022 at 10:24 PM.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracos View Post
    Toronto FC announced today that the club has added defender Themi Antonoglou (Homegrown contract) along with Kobe Franklin, Paul Rothrock, and Steffen Yeates (short-term loan agreements from Toronto FC II).

    https://www.torontofc.ca/news/toronto-adds-antonoglou-franklin-rothrock-and-yeates-to-weekend-roster

    How many more inexperienced youth are we going to sign, this experiment is failed, and now we have to rely even more on the kids, i can understand a sporadic appearance or being on the bench, but to be relying this much on youth, I certainly feel Manning thinks us fans will watch even if pylons were on the field and is trying to cash in on this, its a pure crying shame
    Without the preseason announcement of Insigne coming ToTFC this club would be currently supported by very few and attendance would be as it was at the end of last year plain and simple.

  10. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post

    No one on this board expects to title contend every year.

    .
    I kinda do. When you outspend by 2-3x than majority of the league I think itís fair to expect to be at the top. Itís just like and big clubs in Europe, the expectation to win when you are grossly outspending others.

    The problem at TFC is they are not skilled enough in the FO to continually make it happen. The ownership thinks like other sports where if it goes sideways they can simply replace and bring in fresh ideas. That strategy often doesnít work in the footy world. If you think of successful teams they usually play the same style and the coaching changes rarely deviate from the style of play. The same style is flown down from top top club thru the lowest part of the academy.

    If you look at Seattle they always seem to look reasonably the same year after year and new players or youth players are brought in the enhance the style. That strategy is even more amplified in Europe.

    To me if you took Seattleís approach and gave it TFCs financial resources, youíd need an expansion wing build for the hardware.

    So yeah when you spend way more than everyone else on players and way more on support staff (coaches, doctors, therapists, analytics etc..) I fully expect to contend for a title every single year. The fact TFC continually makes ass backwards choices, makes wrong hires, has poor training staff and thinks itís a great idea to drastically switch tactics (possession team trying to press) doesnít change the fact that they should be by spend alone contending every year.

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webdogg View Post
    I kinda do. When you outspend by 2-3x than majority of the league I think it’s fair to expect to be at the top. It’s just like and big clubs in Europe, the expectation to win when you are grossly outspending others.

    The problem at TFC is they are not skilled enough in the FO to continually make it happen. The ownership thinks like other sports where if it goes sideways they can simply replace and bring in fresh ideas. That strategy often doesn’t work in the footy world. If you think of successful teams they usually play the same style and the coaching changes rarely deviate from the style of play. The same style is flown down from top top club thru the lowest part of the academy.

    If you look at Seattle they always seem to look reasonably the same year after year and new players or youth players are brought in the enhance the style. That strategy is even more amplified in Europe.

    To me if you took Seattle’s approach and gave it TFCs financial resources, you’d need an expansion wing build for the hardware.

    So yeah when you spend way more than everyone else on players and way more on support staff (coaches, doctors, therapists, analytics etc..) I fully expect to contend for a title every single year. The fact TFC continually makes ass backwards choices, makes wrong hires, has poor training staff and thinks it’s a great idea to drastically switch tactics (possession team trying to press) doesn’t change the fact that they should be by spend alone contending every year.
    Except MLS is designed so that you can't win by outspending other teams

    ďYears have gone by and Iíve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ĎA pretty move, for the love of God.í

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I donít give a damn which team or country performs it.Ē

    -Eduardo Galeano

  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Except MLS is designed so that you can't win by outspending other teams
    This is partially true, but on the other hand going by this, all those franchises who are big spenders are/would be idiots, just burning money, the best models being the cheap ass franchises, which would relegate this league being forever out of the best 20 leagues of the world.
    Which IMHO of course is more partially false than the first assumption is partially true.

    So I would say it like this:
    "Except MLS is designed so that you can't win just by outspending other teams, you also need to have a good FO over the long-run."

    Sure this is valid for all leagues of the world, but for MLS the quality of the FO-s in relation with the big spending has a lot more weight than would be by going by the average of all leagues.
    Last edited by PizzaEatingYeti; 05-08-2022 at 08:10 AM.

  13. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Except MLS is designed so that you can't win by outspending other teams
    This is a thing that is said in MLS circles to make the Dallas, SJ, and RSL types believe they actually have a chance to be competitive.

    A while back, someone ran a regression model against results in MLS and looked for factors that were the top predictors of success. The number one predictor? Player spend (salary + transfer fees), just like every other sport in the world.

    Now thatís not to say spending guarantees victory, it just makes it more likely. If you screw up the rest of your roster, itís unlikely to matter that you have a Giovinco or a Robbie Keane. But all else equal, those guys are going to win you the important games and make the difference vs. some team that tries to build a roster on a budget.

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Except MLS is designed so that you can't win by outspending other teams
    Sorry I donít think this is true at all. The team that can afford three Insigne level players should absolutely beat the teams that canít. Not only should TFC have better players, they should also have better trainers, better analytics department, better training facilities, basically better everything because they have more financial means. To say MLS is designed to stop this is simply fiction

  15. #555
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    Probably old news but saw this pop up in my feed:
    https://football-italia.net/criscito...oronto-fc/amp/

  16. #556
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    Yeah let's avoid defenders that are closer to 40 than 30. This team has enough players injured already, and we know they can't even keep young guys fit.

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    This post probably applies to some of the comments here, the two game threads - but not sure where it best fits so it'll go here...

    I remember midway through the winter I took a look at the MLS free agents available and the list was pretty slim. We probably got one of the best free agents in O'Neil and we apparently tried hard to get Edwards. If we wanted to wanted to acquire replacements in MLS we'd need to spend a ton of GAM, which isn't a good use of resources. If we wanted to find replacements internationally we'd need to pay a transfer fee and it would likely be slightly inflated since it's in the middle of the season for most other leagues. Hopefully we use this half of the season to identify the problems and gaps in the roster (for which there are a lot) and we can start to fill a few of those holes this summer.

    If people want to have Bill Manning fired for his past mistakes (2021 and before) I think that's fair. He's had his share of screw ups (much of which can be connected to Curtis). However I don't think his actions the past 6 months are cause for getting fired. He hired Bradley, got the Insigne deal finished, and played at least some role in getting the deadwood cleared out (even if he is in some way responsible for it being there).

  18. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webdogg View Post
    Sorry I don’t think this is true at all. The team that can afford three Insigne level players should absolutely beat the teams that can’t. Not only should TFC have better players, they should also have better trainers, better analytics department, better training facilities, basically better everything because they have more financial means. To say MLS is designed to stop this is simply fiction
    except you can only get 3 Insigne type players, and the rest are... not as good.

    Soccer is a team sport.
    MLS is designed to give the team that spends more an edge, but not so much that it would steamroll even the weakest of the teams.

    ďYears have gone by and Iíve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ĎA pretty move, for the love of God.í

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I donít give a damn which team or country performs it.Ē

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    except you can only get 3 Insigne type players, and the rest are... not as good.

    Soccer is a team sport.
    MLS is designed to give the team that spends more an edge, but not so much that it would steamroll even the weakest of the teams.
    Three Insigne level players will or at least should cook 80% of the MLS teams with only average supporting cast. Kinda what Atlanta did.

    Letís not forget what I originally stated, thereís no reason TFC isnít expected to compete for a title every single year when they spend 2-3x other teams not counting what they spend behind the scenes.

  20. #560
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    So after today's game, Kobe Franklin (4th four day) and Steffen Yeates (two MLS caps) can no longer sign any more four days. Could see some more homegrown contracts signed in the next few days.

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    Still not convinced with BB doing basically double duty as coach and GM*. That's a lot on one man's plate, and there's only so much Manning can do to help out (due to Argos duties and Manning's own shortcomings)

    *Sporting Director technically but pretty well the same

  22. #562
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    Doyle hits the nail on the head


    As for TFC, they are by most metrics the worst team in the league right now, and that most of it stems from their inability to stop, or even slow down, opposing transition moments. This outing did nothing to change that assessment.

    Transition defence is bad & this is somewhat on the CB's but I REALLY think we need a destroyer back there in front of this group & MB is not that guy.

  23. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Doyle hits the nail on the head





    Transition defence is bad & this is somewhat on the CB's but I REALLY think we need a destroyer back there in front of this group & MB is not that guy.
    i agree...good luck trying to get MB off the field,i guess we will see if we bring in a DM in july

  24. #564
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    Just looked up the numbers for our roster:

    We currently have 25 of 30 roster spots filled (including Insigne). That does not include Luke Singh or Auro Jr. who are out on loan.
    We have 4 International spots available.
    We have 0 Designated Player spots available (1 if Salcedo can be converted to TAM, depends on his salary).

    So we can bring in 5 players in the next window, only one of which has to be a domestic player.

  25. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    Just looked up the numbers for our roster:

    We currently have 25 of 30 roster spots filled (including Insigne). That does not include Luke Singh or Auro Jr. who are out on loan.
    We have 4 International spots available.
    We have 0 Designated Player spots available (1 if Salcedo can be converted to TAM, depends on his salary).

    So we can bring in 5 players in the next window, only one of which has to be a domestic player.
    we need a LB DM CB RW...i think rutty and kosi could play the RB postion,shaff and petrasso cant play d they lose track of there man like today on the van goal and the 1st cinci goal,we probs get the 2 genoa players.

  26. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    Just looked up the numbers for our roster:

    We currently have 25 of 30 roster spots filled (including Insigne). That does not include Luke Singh or Auro Jr. who are out on loan.
    We have 4 International spots available.
    We have 0 Designated Player spots available (1 if Salcedo can be converted to TAM, depends on his salary).

    So we can bring in 5 players in the next window, only one of which has to be a domestic player.
    Think at least one of them will be a home grown signing ie Kobe Franklin and/or Steffen Yeates. Both have maxed out their short term contract status. Would not be surprised if at least one of them is signed by next weekend depending on where the Reds stand health wise and all. Signing either of them does not prevent them from getting minutes with TFC II so it gives them some roster flexibility at least for the short term until the international market can be taped.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webdogg View Post
    Sorry I don’t think this is true at all. The team that can afford three Insigne level players should absolutely beat the teams that can’t. Not only should TFC have better players, they should also have better trainers, better analytics department, better training facilities, basically better everything because they have more financial means. To say MLS is designed to stop this is simply fiction
    Better immigration lawyers like Atlanta have to green card every international player exactly 2 years after they stepped onto US soil. And for TFC deep pockets to continue buying out bad contracts.

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    This can't be accurate, right? TFC wouldn't spend $5 million per year on Criscito, would they?

    https://www.calcioline.com/news/3104...-ai-toronto-fc

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    Can't see them spending $5 million on the life of the contract...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    This can't be accurate, right? TFC wouldn't spend $5 million per year on Criscito, would they?

    https://www.calcioline.com/news/3104...-ai-toronto-fc
    it wouldnt shock me...im not so excited about july anymore,bringing in a 35 yr old injury phone insigni buddy is par for the course for this club these days.

 

 

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