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  1. #5521
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    For all of you calling for BB's termination, are you confident that someone better will be hired? Given this club's history of coaches and managers, I am not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    For all of you calling for BB's termination, are you confident that someone better will be hired? Given this club's history of coaches and managers, I am not.
    Should the raptors have stopped at Brian Colagnelo and Sam Mitchell? Change is always a risk but if the management team is performing poorly and their are red flags like we have here, I wouldn’t hesitate.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 09-18-2022 at 04:23 PM.

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    Assuming there is a plan, and there seems to be one, the test will be next June - August.

    IIRC, the end of 2014 was very bad too

    We are, in my mind, 5 starters & 3 subs away from success.

    I just don't think they are going to replace MB like they should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    For all of you calling for BB's termination, are you confident that someone better will be hired? Given this club's history of coaches and managers, I am not.
    Not if Manning is in charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Its weird. I can’t keep straight who posted what, but a number of people last week were very vocally saying that we were were pretty close to contending right now, but for Bono. Now a few days later, everyone seems to want BB gone.

    The funny thing is, these last three games, against playoff teams and with us out regardless… I would say you should expect us to suck in these games regardless of your view of how close we are.

    We are better than we looked yesterday, even if you don’t think we are all that good! Playing out the string is always a recipe for suckitude.
    i agree, dead rubber games are nailed on to not have the same level of performance, especially away games vs teams with something to play for.

    i don't think we are a gk away, we need a GK, 1-2 CBs, a DP ST and CM depth, which is not an unrealistic offseason, especially with decent tradebait.

    i don't think this will automatically make us shield contenders, but i don't think we'll be far off if we get most these right (especially stud CB and DP striker).

    that was true a month ago, and still true after yesterday.

  6. #5526
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Assuming there is a plan, and there seems to be one, the test will be next June - August.

    IIRC, the end of 2014 was very bad too

    We are, in my mind, 5 starters & 3 subs away from success.

    I just don't think they are going to replace MB like they should.
    if oso leaves, i agree we need a GK, 2 CB, 1 CM, and a ST.

    also, if he leaves we will have a ton of roster flexibility (oso, mavinga, bono salary totals like 2.7 M, jiminez is on 900K and would be excellent tradebait if we brought in a DP ST), so i don't even think 5 starters being brought in is unrealistic at that point.

  7. #5527
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    For all of you calling for BB's termination, are you confident that someone better will be hired? Given this club's history of coaches and managers, I am not.
    I was lukewarm to BB's hiring, not sure if his methods work any more, but still think we need to play this through. He had one decent year in LA at least, it's possible with MLSE cash that he could get this team going somewhere. I'd give him until after the summer transfer window, provided the obvious holes (GK, defence) are improved by the spring.

    If TFC is not in a playoff position next year, or if there is no work on the obvious holes by spring Manning (or Manning's replacement) better have someone lined up to replace BB.

    Your point is a valid one, most of our replacements since 2007 made things worse.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-18-2022 at 04:55 PM.

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    I'm starting to come around to ensco's idea that Manning will leave sooner rather than later. He might work on the next DP signing, say "mission accomplished" and parachute out to some other cushy job related to the world cup 2026.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noxx98 View Post
    I'm starting to come around to ensco's idea that Manning will leave sooner rather than later. He might work on the next DP signing, say "mission accomplished" and parachute out to some other cushy job related to the world cup 2026.
    Yeah, that has been my view from the day BB arrived. I kind of see it as tied to MB going upstairs at more or less the same time.

    I have never figured out if Manning would jump or be pushed, but suspect the latter now.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  10. #5530
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Yeah, that has been my view from the day BB arrived. I kind of see it as tied to MB going upstairs at more or less the same time.

    I have never figured out if Manning would jump or be pushed, but suspect the latter now.
    Plus you cannot forget MLSE is in the process of looking for a new president and ceo and who knows what direction that goes, do we get a bean counter or a big time sports type? Does that buy him some time if being pushed out was being considered? Also how much consideration do the Argos get in how the board views Manning?

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

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    I think replacing Bob Bradley right now would be a bad idea. It's too soon. Sure we had a crap season but he's only halfway done. We don't know the plan behind closed doors. We only know what it looks like. There's a big difference. Bob is taking the heat for not making certain player additions/changes but who knows if he was even on board with signing the Italians? Maybe that decision was made above his head and he's just towing the company line? Maybe he was all over it and really wanted them? Who knows?? The last time we had a "Bloody Big Deal" and signed someone who was new to the league and was probably considered at the time as a big step up just like Insigne. Jermain Defoe bolted as soon as Nelsen was fired. You let Bobby go and maybe the Italians aren't far behind him. We need stability until they get over the shock of moving to a new country, a new team and a new league. As any immigrant will tell you homesickness is a bitch. That first year or two are often filled with thoughts of remorse in moving here. It passes but the last thing we want right now is turmoil and management getting fired. Let it ride tihrough next season or at least until after the summer window then revisit management decisions.

  12. #5532
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    When it comes to spending on salaries TFC has shown a willingness to spend big money on DP's, partly to also sell tickets, but we have never spent big money on a name coach. I don't see that changing

  13. #5533
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    Russell-Rowe > Akinola

    That’s the post.

  14. #5534
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    When it comes to spending on salaries TFC has shown a willingness to spend big money on DP's, partly to also sell tickets, but we have never spent big money on a name coach. I don't see that changing
    Bob Bradley is a high profile appointment for MLS standards.

    But yeah I'd love to see them go out and get a bielsa or something

  15. #5535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Duh! Whoops! Apologies.
    Missed Callens. Agree... a solid candidate.
    For some reason I thought he was out of contention with a season-ending injury?
    Obviously not. Had returned several matches/weeks ago.
    Even got a goal in the Campeones!

    Again... in regards to the Y23 MLS/PA Free Agency List - Out of Contract/Option...

    Roster starters, and/or depth, worth a consideration?...

    Possible leading / preferred candidates shortlist with latest salary? In no order of...

    Revised...

    GK...
    Crepeau - 302K
    Hamid - 700K
    Johnson - 550K

    D...
    Callens - 814K
    Hollingshead - 394K
    Long - 1.080M
    Lundkvist - 373K
    Mavinga - 1.038M
    Robinson - 738K
    Tinnerholm - 800K

    M...
    Blessing - 417K
    Gressel - 970K
    Osorio - 1.026M
    Moralez - 1.3M
    Morris Jordan - 1.3M
    Piette - 430K


    Hey don't stop there may as well email the list and your recommendations.


    Bill.manning@mlse.com


    Maybe he will ignore it since it isn't transfermarkt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    This goes back to my point about MLSE and accountability with Manning. We continually lead the league or are right there at the top in highest payroll in the league. What value are we getting for this spend? We just missed the playoffs for the third time in 5 years under Manning's leadership. Other teams are doing much more with far less.

    We must do better. Any other organization would have gotten rid of Manning. Yet, he somehow escapes any accountability. Not suprising though for MLSE withe Leafs and lack of accountability there as well.
    MLSE stopped caring about accountability the minute they let Tim Leiweke walk. The MLSE board would rather having have someone in place that is non confrontational with the board and tells them exactly what they want to hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The mention of anxiety in the midst of all that - mental health becoming a normalised discussion. Good.

    As someone who has had bouts with anxiety throughout their life I am please this is becoming a topic that people are having discussions about more openly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Inbetween View Post
    Uhh... worse...
    Do not count out Club Foot...

    https://www.mountroyalsoccer.com/202...any-are-saying

    His hatred for Montreal runs as deep as all of ours. I would be completely shocked if he were to accept an offer from them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside16 View Post
    His hatred for Montreal runs as deep as all of ours. I would be completely shocked if he were to accept an offer from them
    I disagree. He is a professional athlete and will do what he must.

    He cares about TFC and the fan base, so he would stay here for the same dough, sure… but he isn’t us, money and other things matter more than the rivalry.

    also I assume he is, or could be, very close to 4-5 core CMNT guys there.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindside16 View Post
    His hatred for Montreal runs as deep as all of ours. I would be completely shocked if he were to accept an offer from them
    Its either Europe or he stays with TFC. I can't really see anything else.

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    If people can defect from Barcelona to Real Madrid, a rivalry so deep that it emcposses brutal oppression of nationalism, a massive political divide and has history that includes the president of one of the clubs being murdered by the state (Not to mention the sporting side of being in a constant battle for Spanish and European supremacy for the guts of a century), then defecting across our "rivalry" is nothing in comparison - for a local or otherwise. Professional athletes treat these things like we treat jobs, as they should, and if Montreal is by far the best offer on the table I would expect he will take it, as he should, and I'd wish him the best.

    I wouldn't put much stock in the rumour right now and do think it's unlikely to be his best offer, but if it is, don't fall into the trap of assuming our players 'hatered' runs as deep as a fan. It just isn't the same to them, especially when we're talking a team that is less than 20 years old and a rivalry that would probably not scratch the top 1,000 football rivalries in terms of the hatered, history between clubs and off field emotion behind it
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 09-19-2022 at 09:10 AM.

  22. #5542
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    If Oso goes anywhere it'll be Europe, or possibly Mexico.

    He's matured into a really good player. I think for a couple more years at least, he could play at any level, for most teams. I don't think he's quite elite because his speed and natural athleticism aren't at that level and he hasn't played at that level long enough to adapt to it. But he could do a job at a lower Premier League team, ala Dempsey and Ream at Fulham, Miggy Almiron at Newcastle.

    I just don't see why they'd sign him. He's at that level, but so are a ton of domestic players who are 22, not 30.

    In Belgium, France or Turkey, or maybe Holland and Portugal -- I can see him landing a starting gig that gets him Champions League football, and it seems more likely he'd get both the playing time and the money he'll get here.

    I've watched a lot of Prem in the last year, and there are plenty of domestic players there who've risen to that level but aren't close to the level of the best DPs in MLS. They're TAM level players, not all superstars. They're all starters/stars in MLS, but not to any greater degree than the top third at each club already.

    They looked great in League One and top class in the Championship... and pretty workaday average when trying to play against Man City and Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea.

    But he's 30. If he'd gone over younger and been forced to fight to compete there at eighteen instead of here at 22, he'd probably still be in the top level now.

    I don't think anyone in MLS will offer him more than us, and he has the prospects of a long career association afterwards as well, so...

    Might go to Mexico, though. Their budgets are right around double those in MLS and they can afford a flyer on a guy who they've seen perform well.

    And if he has a good World Cup, some Chinese or Saudi team might offer him the big moolah, in which case he won't be able to say no. You're 30 and some dude offers you six or eight or ten million a season, which the Saudi league has routinely done to poach African and Italian players in the past, you're not turning that down to play Champions League for FC Basel and a million a year.

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    no one is offering a 30+ lifetime mls player 6-8 million per season

  24. #5544
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    If people can defect from Barcelona to Real Madrid, a rivalry so deep that it emcposses brutal oppression of nationalism, a massive political divide and has history that includes the president of one of the clubs being murdered by the state (Not to mention the sporting side of being in a constant battle for Spanish and European supremacy for the guts of a century), then defecting across our "rivalry" is nothing in comparison - for a local or otherwise. Professional athletes treat these things like we treat jobs, as they should, and if Montreal is by far the best offer on the table I would expect he will take it, as he should, and I'd wish him the best.

    I wouldn't put much stock in the rumour right now and do think it's unlikely to be his best offer, but if it is, don't fall into the trap of assuming our players 'hatered' runs as deep as a fan. It just isn't the same to them, especially when we're talking a team that is less than 20 years old and a rivalry that would probably not scratch the top 1,000 football rivalries in terms of the hatered, history between clubs and off field emotion behind it
    It's not a rumour, it's a fan run website saying they should sign him for TAM bc he's very good. It's also months old.

    There's nothing to it and wont happen.

  25. #5545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    no one is offering a 30+ lifetime mls player 6-8 million per season
    Yeah, but even a 1.5 million tax free plus living allowances absolutely destroys anything he’d get here.

    Signing WC players is a thing, even if it’s from one of the less competitive teams.

  26. #5546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amir. View Post
    no one is offering a 30+ lifetime mls player 6-8 million per season
    Probably not, no. But Teams in the Saudi League have signed guys straight out of the Zimbabwean Football League for low millions. I can see them popping 6-8M for him.

    Nobody else, though. Chinese seem to have stopped doing that, but they once signed lifetime USL defender Sean Fraser to a million-dollar deal.

    So while I wouldn't expect it, I wouldn't write it off entirely either. Dumber things have happened.

    And there are plenty of European teams who'll pay a good 30 year old more than 1.6M
    Last edited by jloome; 09-19-2022 at 01:17 PM.

  27. #5547
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    And there are plenty of European teams who'll pay a good 30 year old more than 1.6M
    Comparing salary figures with Europe is tricky because some counties look at it net of tax as opposed to gross. Plus they get a lot of fringe benefits North American players don’t. At one point Ajax players got free Mercedes to use as long as they were on the roster.

    Anyway, all that is to say you’re right. Also confused why we don’t negotiate salaries after tax like they do in parts Europe. Makes a lot more sense!

  28. #5548
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    MLSE could do a ton, including offer oso a post career role worth a decent amount and a coaching position (if he wants it).

    all about what euro offers he gets, imo.

  29. #5549
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Its weird. I can’t keep straight who posted what, but a number of people last week were very vocally saying that we were were pretty close to contending right now, but for Bono. Now a few days later, everyone seems to want BB gone.

    The funny thing is, these last three games, against playoff teams and with us out regardless… I would say you should expect us to suck in these games regardless of your view of how close we are.

    We are better than we looked yesterday, even if you don’t think we are all that good! Playing out the string is always a recipe for suckitude.
    There's a problem with the "everyone" term here. In fact, how much different groups of people post varies a great deal from game to game. If the team is doing OK, you'll hear more from folks that are fine with the direction and fine with BB. If the team is doing poorly, you'll hear more from those with their knives out for BB and others in management.

    Plus opinions of specific people can change. I was a bit like Oldtimer at first: meh about BB. I didn't follow him at all when he was in Europe. My so-so opinion was based on his time as US MNT coach, as well as his time at LAFC. (His early experiences as MLS assistant and coach were too long ago, in a very different league, so I didn't really consider them.) But I felt BB was better than Armas. Also I hoped he would reduce Manning's influence on player acquisition, and that he would have contacts in MLS and Europe to find some good deals in players.

    I think BB WILL stay, at least for now. In any case, I don't see any use in having Bill Manning choose another coach.

    But I've kinda lost hope in the Bradley duopoly. I don't think BB's inflexible approach will work, at least not consistently. I mostly gave him a pass in the first half of the season, but I've seen enough to get me worried. He has been inflexible about the roster, incl. dumping OK players w/o any replacement in sight. I don't see him as a path to more efficient and reliable player scouting and signing, which is critical in MLS. Inflexible about the roster -- i.e. who plays consistently and who doesn't. Inflexible about subs and their timing -- often not adjusting to the reality of the game. And especially inflexible about tactics - not getting the best out of the players he has available.

    Tied to the lack of flexibility -- I think there's a lack of self-awareness, which seems to go for MB and BB. Don't get me wrong: they're dedicated hard workers. MB especially has done great things for the club. But they just don't seem to admit when things (especially their own actions) are headed in the wrong direction. Maybe they do privately; but I haven't seen it in their words or their actions. And I'm worried that MB is already pencilled in for a major roll at TFC after he retires as a player.

    Finally -- probably tied to the above as well -- I'm not sure if either BB or MB are great motivators.

    I saw some of all that while TFC still had a good chance for the playoffs...
    Last edited by Auzzy; 09-19-2022 at 01:57 PM.

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    I know Osorio is on a different level than most having played pretty well all his career with us. I think you are right about saying the rivalry is second to what kind of offers come in, I wouldn't put it past Oso to leave for Montreal for a decent pay and the ability to play with his national teammates. Others have done this and although their stints have not been nearly as long as Osorio, so they don't view the rivalry as the same things that supporters do. There have been 17 other people to play for both teams, Ironically waking the red just did a piece a few months ago.

    https://www.wakingthered.com/2022/6/...nd-cf-montreal

    Most recently Ciman who got hired back to the Montreal staff after retiring with us. So who's to say it couldn't happen here with Oso going to play out a few years and come back here to be an ambassador or something else for TFC. I would hate to see him in a Montreal jersey but I'm sure the possibility is there.

 

 

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