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  1. #5011
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    Offseason needs:

    1) Starting GK
    2) Backup Keeper (I'd be okay with Westberg, maybe Luka Gavran from TFC2 would be a solid backup [recent TFC2 results look good, anyone seen their games?])
    3) Starting CB who can marshall the line*
    4) Starting Level Midfielder*
    5) Striker*
    6) A Right Back to replace Laryea (loan ends June 30)
    7) 4-5 Depth players who can actually contribute as subs/injury replacement starters (all positions)
    8) New contract for Osorio

    *one of these can be a DP

    This roster is far from complete. We're too top heavy. Can these even be filled under an MLS salary "budget". Probably too much or one window too
    I don't think TFC should waste too much more time filling out the roster. I know last year Manning and co said it could a few transfer windows, but IMO we need to be Cup contenders and charge forward starting in 2023. Hear me out...

    We need a quality goalie like everyone says. Maybe even 2. Bono is beyond inconsistent.

    Criscito is amazing, but he's only on until 2023, and even if he stays in 2024 he'll be 37.

    Layreya is the RB we needed and TFC should do whatever it takes to buy him back, then offer him max tam.

    A solid CB would be good I agree, someone who can command the back line, like another Drew Moore. Plus pickup a few bench players. What we really need is a Sergio Ramos.

    Midfield I'm actually "ok" with if MAK can come back and stays healthy. It's too bad TFC can't/didn't go after Eustáquio as we need someone like that.

    Osorio, definitely resign him 1000% to max tam.

    As for a DP striker, I want to see them go all out like Insigne. MLSE has the money so go sign the most expensive striker Manning can get **who's in their prime or 30 so we have someone for a good few years.

    IMO this ALL needs to happen over the winter off season. Even Insigne is 32 next year and we can't afford to waste another season in 2023 not being contenders. Wasting another year of Berna and Insigne's time here is the worst thing Manning and Co could do. Get this team ready for 2023 and beyond. During 2023 they maybe make tiny adjustments but this team should be out of the gate contenders in March 2023.
    Last edited by dave343; 08-21-2022 at 09:28 AM. Reason: error

  2. #5012
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave343 View Post
    I don't think TFC should waste too much more time filling out the roster. I know last year Manning and co said it could a few transfer windows, but IMO we need to be Cup contenders and charge forward starting in 2023. Hear me out...

    We need a quality goalie like everyone says. Maybe even 2. Bono is beyond inconsistent.

    Criscito is amazing, but he's only on until 2023, and even if he stays in 2024 he'll be 37.

    Layreya is the RB we needed and TFC should do whatever it takes to buy him back, then offer him max tam.

    A solid CB would be good I agree, someone who can command the back line, like another Drew Moore. Plus pickup a few bench players. What we really need is a Sergio Ramos.

    Midfield I'm actually "ok" with if MAK can come back and stays healthy. It's too bad TFC can't/didn't go after Eustáquio as we need someone like that.

    Osorio, definitely resign him 1000% to max tam.

    As for a DP striker, I want to see them go all out like Insigne. MLSE has the money so go sign the most expensive striker Manning can get **who's in their prime or 30 so we have someone for a good few years.

    IMO this ALL needs to happen over the winter off season. Even Insigne is 32 next year and we can't afford to waste another season in 2023 not being contenders. Wasting another year of Berna and Insigne's time here is the worst thing Manning and Co could do. Get this team ready for 2023 and beyond. During 2023 they maybe make tiny adjustments but this team should be out of the gate contenders in March 2023.
    Sergio would get in the face of these guys no doubt. A leader. We defintely need someone, anyone to marshall the back line.

    We are burned again on a set piece. Does anyone not notice all the open guys? Pozuelo, who they all know, was literally wide open and allowed to float in a cross.

    Bottom line, we need a keeper and I wouldn't play Bono again. Enough is enough.

    A midfielder. And a striker.

    Playng wiht Ako, Acharra and JJ is like playing a man down. They offer nothing. And Insgien and Berna have to literally try and take on 3 or 4 guys and make some magic out of nothing.

    We just lost one year wiht Insigne. And he isn't getting any younger.

    Would love to keep Richie, he is a winner and tenancious.

  3. #5013
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I still think he needs his eyesight dealt with - that goal yesterday was not caused by it but he has noticeable issues with depth perception.
    Also he has always had bad hands, even in 2017. That first goal against NER was another of his hands of stone routines. Most of the time he spills crosses or long shots. No damage done generally but the possibility is always there.

  4. #5014
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave343 View Post
    Midfield I'm actually "ok" with if MAK can come back and stays healthy. It's too bad TFC can't/didn't go after Eustáquio as we need someone like that.
    I like Kaye too, but I still feel like we need an extra midfielder so that we can have a replacement during an injury/suspension/squad rotation and create competition to keep guys working hard to keep their spot. Just looking at the game yesterday, the guys had no legs. If we could cycle through guys giving nights off here and there, that would help. That's where a Delgado-type guy would help. 4 quality guys for our 3 midfield spots is ideal in my mind, which is why I mentioned an extra midfielder as a need.

  5. #5015
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    I like Kaye too, but I still feel like we need an extra midfielder so that we can have a replacement during an injury/suspension/squad rotation and create competition to keep guys working hard to keep their spot. Just looking at the game yesterday, the guys had no legs. If we could cycle through guys giving nights off here and there, that would help. That's where a Delgado-type guy would help. 4 quality guys for our 3 midfield spots is ideal in my mind, which is why I mentioned an extra midfielder as a need.
    I think given the arc of Nelson’s improvement it’s not unreasonable he eventually becomes that 4th midfielder. But a Shane O’Neill equivalent in midfield would be helpful

  6. #5016
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think given the arc of Nelson’s improvement it’s not unreasonable he eventually becomes that 4th midfielder. But a Shane O’Neill equivalent in midfield would be helpful
    That type of mid can be found in free agency or through the re-entry draft usually. That's how we got DeLeon and a younger version of him is what we should be looking for (jack of all trades type).

  7. #5017
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    Shaff made his debut for Nashville

  8. #5018
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    Good for Shaf, hope he has lots of success

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodson View Post
    This team needs to more transfer windows to become a dominant team in my opinion. The next window you focus on mls proven talents via free agency and the trade market. This imo should make us a solid playoff team. As realistically it’s difficult to get top talent out of Europe without paying transfer fees. Then in the summer you get your dp and compliment the roster and they will turn into the dominant supporters shield contending side
    This team needs one more. If they still need next summer to be a solid playoff team, people should start getting the sack.

    TheGoodson I’m not sure if it was you, but some on this board claimed that the team needed the three windows before the 2023 season. I called it out a while ago, that the club is so inept that these timelines are going to keep getting extended.

  10. #5020
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    I still think we're slow too. That's something that should be addressed with a new CF and as depth in midfield. A legit pacey back up forward would be nice as well.

  11. #5021
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Is it too early to start the off season player discussion thread?


    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Westberg has a rib injury.

    I question carrying 3 keepers in primary roster spots - it sounds like they have been shopping Westberg and / or Bono with no takers.


    A Bono not getting along with his teammates thing would not surprise me - ultimately, that would be a coaching problem that should not be allowed to fester.

    I suspect Bono has asked to have his contract renewed & been told that isn't happening during the season.

    My take is that Bono will not be TFC's #1 Keeper next year, if he's here as backup, it will be with a huge reduction. Although Bono will be eligible to be a free agent next year he's likely not to be picked up under that provision. He'll either be out of MLS next year, negotiate a huge reduction at TFC, or end up in the re-entry draft and be picked up for peanuts. I don't see him continuing to be Toronto's #1 Keeper, he's one of the worst in the league in that position.

    Quote Originally Posted by rydermike View Post
    Offseason needs:

    1) Starting GK
    2) Backup Keeper (I'd be okay with Westberg, maybe Luka Gavran from TFC2 would be a solid backup [recent TFC2 results look good, anyone seen their games?])
    3) Starting CB who can marshall the line*
    4) Starting Level Midfielder*
    5) Striker*
    6) A Right Back to replace Laryea (loan ends June 30)
    7) 4-5 Depth players who can actually contribute as subs/injury replacement starters (all positions)
    8) New contract for Osorio

    *one of these can be a DP

    This roster is far from complete. We're too top heavy. Can these even be filled under an MLS salary "budget". Probably too much or one window too
    Agreed with all of these.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-22-2022 at 03:32 PM.


  12. #5022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    My take is that Bono will not be TFDC's #1 Keeper next year, if he's here as backup, it will be with a huge reduction. Although Bono will be eligible to be a free agent next year he's likely not to be picked up under that provision. He'll either be out of MLS next year, negotiate a huge reduction at TFC, or end up in the re-entry draft and be picked up for peanuts. I don't see him continuing to be Toronto's #1 Keeper, he's one of the worst in the league in that position.
    This is the best thing that can come out of the second half of the season. Part of me was worried that we might pull off a miracle and run the table + make the playoffs and then reward Bono with TAM for term. At this rate I wouldn't even take him as a back up with the 2021 Zavaleta home town discount. Somehow, no matter how terrible he plays, he always gets in there at some point and that has to stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    This team needs one more. If they still need next summer to be a solid playoff team, people should start getting the sack.

    TheGoodson I’m not sure if it was you, but some on this board claimed that the team needed the three windows before the 2023 season. I called it out a while ago, that the club is so inept that these timelines are going to keep getting extended.
    yes it was me… here’s what happened: Window 1 the purge - they got rid of everyone that BB didn’t think could or would play in his system (hindsight too drastic but necessary). Plus it was an audition for the kids. Window 2 rebuild - bring in 5 quality players (would have been a playoff team if they didn’t drop soo many points before the calvary came). Window 3 - should be filling in the holes and be a solid playoff team. I personally don’t think the 3rd DP will be playing from the start of the season. They might announce a signing but he won’t be playing. As I think TFC would rather pay more in salary then pay a transfer fee. That’s when TFC becomes a true top 3 team in the league and one of the favourites to win CCL.

    if you look back at the 2017 it took 3 windows to build that team which is still the best team ever to play in the mls. I think LAFC surpasses them in talent. But they need to prove it come playoff time

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    The 2017 team took 5 windows to make it what it was - started that rebuild in Winter 2015. People forget that 2016 was an unexpected run where we all thought in early August this wasn't going to work.

    Vasquez was the final piece.


    (I'm not sure our 4th DP (Criscito) can make it to 2024 but we will see)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The 2017 team took 5 windows to make it what it was - started that rebuild in Winter 2015. People forget that 2016 was an unexpected run where we all thought in early August this wasn't going to work.

    Vasquez was the final piece.


    (I'm not sure our 4th DP (Criscito) can make it to 2024 but we will see)
    If only we landed him when he was 28-30 :-(

  16. #5026
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    Speaking of 28 year olds and purely hypothetical, Belotti has 11 days to find a team. Wolves rumored to want him, he wants Roma ( Roma’s hands are tied).

    Do you offer more than Lorenzo to get him for no transfer fee even though playoffs are highly unlikely or wait now for next July and hope a good player is available.
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 08-23-2022 at 08:07 AM.

  17. #5027
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The 2017 team took 5 windows to make it what it was - started that rebuild in Winter 2015. People forget that 2016 was an unexpected run where we all thought in early August this wasn't going to work.

    Vasquez was the final piece.


    (I'm not sure our 4th DP (Criscito) can make it to 2024 but we will see)

    I would argue that rebuild started when Bez was hired in 2013, so close to 8 windows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    I would argue that rebuild started when Bez was hired in 2013, so close to 8 windows.
    Yeah but we made a bollocks of the initial windows with Laba, Defoe, Gilberto, & Nelsen. That was like a false start & mulligan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Yeah but we made a bollocks of the initial windows with Laba, Defoe, Gilberto, & Nelsen. That was like a false start & mulligan.
    Not completely a disaster. We got Morrow and Bradley, which ended up being part of our long-term success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC/Everton View Post
    Not completely a disaster. We got Morrow and Bradley, which ended up being part of our long-term success.
    Not completely but usually blowing 2 of 3 DPs in one season is bad news.

  21. #5031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Yeah but we made a bollocks of the initial windows with Laba, Defoe, Gilberto, & Nelsen. That was like a false start & mulligan.
    The progression from 2014-2017 was a very justified one. The team was at the very least competitive in every year and the players signed served a role or intention to improve the position they were filling. Just because Jackson and Warner weren’t around for 2017 doesn’t mean they weren’t valuable at the time.

    I have three levels of expectation: 1. Be playoffs competitive (as in if you miss them it should be a narrow miss with a decent excuse); 2. Be a solid playoff team; 3. Be a supporters shield contender.

    If you are in any of those three buckets, you’re no longer re-building, rather you’re just building.

    Because the playoffs bar has been lowered so substantially in MLS, a club should really take no more than two windows to re-build.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Speaking of 28 year olds and purely hypothetical, Belotti has 11 days to find a team. Wolves rumored to want him, he wants Roma ( Roma’s hands are tied).

    Do you offer more than Lorenzo to get him for no transfer fee even though playoffs are highly unlikely or wait now for next July and hope a good player is available.
    Only DP i would get this year would have to be on a contract that ends at the end of the year. Or i would just fill that spot next year

  23. #5033
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post

    Because the playoffs bar has been lowered so substantially in MLS, a club should really take no more than two windows to re-build.
    Agree with most of what you said but disagree with that last point. A new club can be built in 2 seasons but bad contracts can weigh down an established team for longer than that. Each club's circumstances need to be looked at individually, especially dead weight contracts, and also free GAM and TAM.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-23-2022 at 02:25 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Agree with most of what you said but disagree with that last point. A new club can be built in 2 seasons but bad contracts can weigh down an established team for longer than that. Each club's circumstances need to be looked at individually, especially dead weight contracts, and also free GAM and TAM.
    I think a club would have to be epically mismanaged to find itself realistically beyond a two-window timeline to competing for a playoff spot (which is the point I would say a team isn’t rebuilding anymore).

    There is the other hand, which is a team doesn’t make the two-window timeline because they’re incompetent or make terrible decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    I think a club would have to be epically mismanaged to find itself realistically beyond a two-window timeline to competing for a playoff spot (which is the point I would say a team isn’t rebuilding anymore).

    There is the other hand, which is a team doesn’t make the two-window timeline because they’re incompetent or make terrible decisions.
    When you have the finanical resources we have, 2 windows is more than enough.

    To me, we badly need a striker. I was a JJ fan but its not working now. And Ako and Acharra, sorry, are not starting level calibre strikers and Ingisne and Berna will end up losing it if they go play another season without a target man up front that can score, distribute, create space for them. Right now they literally have to do it on their own and ther frustration levels are starting to show.

    We need to lock up Richie somehow. He is excellent at the back. Love his hustle and fighting spirit. We need more Richies.

    Definiutely need a keeper. Bono after the two back to back game blunders can't be trusted anymore. He just has to go. Its demoralizing to our players to work so hard and then we give up the back breaking s.hit goals that we do.

    And the elephant in the room, we need to get the Bradly replacement. Now if that means he platoons say 50/50 next year, I can live with that but the plan has to be 2024, Mike is not on this team anymore. Sorry, I get flak and attacked anytime I mention Mike but its over. As many have said, we structure our play to protect his defensive shortcomings.

    And a top level CB to marshall this team.

    We have three great pieces in the Italians. And Richie. We can build quickly into a top team just by a few moves this off season. And we still have a DP spot that will improve the team big time. So the future is bright if we make the right moves.

  26. #5036
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    The progression from 2014-2017 was a very justified one. The team was at the very least competitive in every year and the players signed served a role or intention to improve the position they were filling. Just because Jackson and Warner weren’t around for 2017 doesn’t mean they weren’t valuable at the time.

    I have three levels of expectation: 1. Be playoffs competitive (as in if you miss them it should be a narrow miss with a decent excuse); 2. Be a solid playoff team; 3. Be a supporters shield contender.

    If you are in any of those three buckets, you’re no longer re-building, rather you’re just building.

    Because the playoffs bar has been lowered so substantially in MLS, a club should really take no more than two windows to re-build.
    To me, part of that was Bez learning on the job. But, he attempted to improve the team every window and things generally went in the right direction.

    That said, the thing we should be setting the bar for (given our budget) is continuous success. We shouldn’t have one cup run and then three years of rebuilding each time. Especially now, when we signed a marquee player who is in his prime.

    Overall, when you look at our track record through the years, there’s a lot of underperformance. Hope that changes, quickly.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 08-24-2022 at 08:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Speaking of 28 year olds and purely hypothetical, Belotti has 11 days to find a team. Wolves rumored to want him, he wants Roma ( Roma’s hands are tied).

    Do you offer more than Lorenzo to get him for no transfer fee even though playoffs are highly unlikely or wait now for next July and hope a good player is available.
    Doesn't sound like he wants to come here otherwise he would have accepted the earlier offer I think. Last thing we want is someone to come here who doesn't want to be here but doing it only for the paycheck. I wouldn't throw anything more at him. Glad it is not my money or decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Kool View Post
    Doesn't sound like he wants to come here otherwise he would have accepted the earlier offer I think. Last thing we want is someone to come here who doesn't want to be here but doing it only for the paycheck. I wouldn't throw anything more at him. Glad it is not my money or decision.
    I'd rather somebody else anyway. Was never sold on Belotti. We need some pace in this line up for next year and as we have a lot of set roster spots without great pace (or pace at all), the CF position is one where we could add some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    I'd rather somebody else anyway. Was never sold on Belotti. We need some pace in this line up for next year and as we have a lot of set roster spots without great pace (or pace at all), the CF position is one where we could add some.
    I dunno. To me, Belotti looks reasonably versatile. From what I’ve seen of his play, he’s not exactly slow.

    That said, there is not much you can do with speed when the other team crams 8 defenders in the box. But you can use strength to clear space for yourself and draw defenders attention (opening space for others). I think that’s the thing we really need right now.

    Other teams are willing to bunker and counter. We won’t be catching others on the break often.

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    other comments were talking about the 'multiple windows' - basically, yeppers. You did all this leg work now it's time to find the depth.

    I know this is player roster but do you think the coaching will also be shaken up? I can't see the team not investing further and boosting our advantages where we can, given that up until this year conditioning has been an issue and suddenly players are healthier again under Bob. There are still holdovers from old regimes like Conway and they've definitely not been effective.

 

 

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