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  1. #4531
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I feel like I’ve gone full circle on the importance of athleticism in development. As a 5’9, slight of frame guy, I always sort of rolled my eyes at Canada Soccer historically picking out players similar to how you’d pick out a race horse. But… I have seen first hand “can’t miss talent” basically evaporate once the athleticism gets taken up a level in a more demanding league. And ironically, I now feel Canada Soccer overvalues skill at the expense of many other attributes.

    That’s not say you have to be built like a brick house to play soccer. I’d argue that’s not the case and certainly lots of countries (particularly Spain) have proved you can still be under 6 feet and play at the highest level.

    We’ve got to work on the tactical / mental aspects of being a professional more than anything else. That’s where I feel most of these youth players are fall short.
    Yeah, for sure we’ve lacked tactical/mental awareness. It’s been a dreadful combination of not knowing football, broadly, on one hand and having inherited the English insistence on size and physicality on the other.

    Even with a sport we know, hockey, there has been a propensity to choose size and strength over skill. Gretzky was told he wouldn’t amount to much and the average fan booed him for years. He was fundamentally repulsive - too much skill and incredible awareness in a spindly body.
    Last edited by los sonadores; 08-03-2022 at 04:21 PM.

  2. #4532
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    I was reading on the weekend about how it was only 5 years ago the English WNT U13's were finally catching up to EPL academy kids of the same age - this was in terms of nutrition & training.

    I suspect our 13 year old setups in this country are not even there yet.

    Nutrition & training is a HUGE reason as to why top class players are that big.

  3. #4533
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCD Eindhoven View Post
    They didn’t boot him out fwiw - he’s the one who wanted to leave, ugh this sounds like I’m defending club foot… now I’ll list the 10 reasons anyone would want to leave them: ehem
    The inside story here is, he wanted to leave because of salary. They told him he was basically worth the MLS minimum, that was it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Have to disagree somewhat amigo. Canadian soccer is missing the technical skills development. The Canadian system looks for raw athleticism and the skill "little" guys never get a chance to develop. Same thing in the US as they have no technical midfielders that can dictate the game/pull the strings. Spain has little guys that have been ultra successful...and sorry (have to mention my beloved Croatia as its what I know), Luka Modric is what like 5"7". If he grew up in Canada, he'd be out of footie at 14 as the coaches here would deem him too small.


    Alphonso Davies is a generational talent with speed, strength etc who could walk into any national team in the world. An exception. Our Canadian academy TFC guys simply aren't good enough. Is that on the academy, Canadian soccer, both?
    I guess we can all look at the same painting and have a different interpretation.

    But to be specific about my observations, in one previous youth crop we had Dylan Carreirio, Keven Aleman, Michael Petrasso… all playing for the same Canadian youth team and being go-to players. All are 5’8 and under.

    We can blame a lot of things for their pro careers not going as well as expected but I don’t think anyone would point to skill or Canadian Soccer looking them over because or their size.

    Now I haven’t followed too many recent iterations of our youth squads but it would generally be my impression that being undersized is not immediately going to result in you being overlooked. More often I find it’s being outside of the MLS club feeders or outside of a major club in Europe’s youth system that will cause you to be overlooked. The CSA youth programs are horrifically under funded and brutally political so the CSA sticks to the easy picks. With that in mind, a lot of local talent that is playing outside the traditional channels doesn’t get the chance it deserves.

    Maybe the MLS youth teams put too much premium on athleticism (don’t follow enough to say) but I don’t think we can necessarily pin it on the CSA.

  4. #4534
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    I particularly like our current strategy of letting players go without having their replacements for three or four games. Tests our fortitude and builds character.



    COYRs

  5. #4535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    I particularly like our current strategy of letting players go without having their replacements for three or four games. Tests our fortitude and builds character.



    COYRs
    This has been the way for a long time.

    Bez used to do that as well.

  6. #4536
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    If the kids are good enough once this team has been rebuilt they will play. If not they will go. It is what it is, just because they are from here doesn’t mean they deserve a spot

  7. #4537
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    Developing kids is as useful a tool for getting talent as any.

    Teams should not ignore the option of growing youth.

  8. #4538
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Oh! Oh yeah, good point. Vancouver has been worse than us, but gets a complete pass for Alphonso Davies, who frankly they barely developed. He was so talented and overgrown as a 14-year-old that Swansea City tried to sign him five years before Bayern, right out of Edmonton Minor Soccer, but obviously couldn’t get around the youth transfer restrictions.

    Most of Vancouver’s development from teh past decade is playing in the CPL. Montreal’s isn’t even that lucky. Was Piette even one of their youths? I know he spent years in Europe before going there, including a stint in La Liga.

    Part of the issue seems to be that the athletic talent recognition in the first place — and the ability to convince them to stick with soccer instead of hockey or basketball or football — is still utterly lacking in North America, particularly Canada.

    Look at the size of the average premiership player when they compete against MLS teams in friendlies. We look like we’re playing against giants, for crying out loud.

    It’s also the biggest complaint about players from the Americas going into top Euro leagues, that they’re always undersized.

    I strongly disagree with the notion that the best athletes make the best soccer players, nor do I agree that size has any particular impact on player ability.

    Conversely, I think that's exactly what we do now.. I think many of the youth in TFC Academy's ranks are there because their athletic abilities are what standout not their technical skillset or soccer IQ - sure some of these players are athletes and may have 1 of the latter but not both i.e. Nelson is the prime example of this.

    I think great players have all 3, good players have both of the latter 2, mediocre players have 1 of the 3, and bad players have none.

  9. #4539
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSouzaZ View Post
    I strongly disagree with the notion that the best athletes make the best soccer players, nor do I agree that size has any particular impact on player ability.

    Conversely, I think that's exactly what we do now.. I think many of the youth in TFC Academy's ranks are there because their athletic abilities are what standout not their technical skillset or soccer IQ - sure some of these players are athletes and may have 1 of the latter but not both i.e. Nelson is the prime example of this.

    I think great players have all 3, good players have both of the latter 2, mediocre players have 1 of the 3, and bad players have none.
    The larger point I was trying to make wasn't that people need to be big and strong to be good. It's that more and more often, those spotted earliest and considered the best prospects are BOTH strong and technical.

    in other words, we're not landing the "all three " category.

  10. #4540
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    The larger point I was trying to make wasn't that people need to be big and strong to be good. It's that more and more often, those spotted earliest and considered the best prospects are BOTH strong and technical.
    I would argue the best prospects have technical capability that could grow better with proper training.

    &

    they all COULD grow strong, if they start before 14 with proper nutrition & training.

  11. #4541
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I would argue the best prospects have technical capability that could grow better with proper training.

    &

    they all COULD grow strong, if they start before 14 with proper nutrition & training.
    That's fair, yeah. Lots of Prem players are short but they're all
    pretty much iron hard, well strong.

    Oso's not the biggest guy but he sure
    got stronger after his first two seasons.

  12. #4542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Also, does anyone know what kind of CB this guy is? Can he organize a defence?
    Doesn't seem like an organizer, from what I've seen. His positioning is fine, he's strong, but not much pace or passing ability.

    Criscito had a reputation in Italy - this guy doesn’t. Barely Serie A level, but I'd still expect him to be much better than what TFC have now.

    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I think he also plays some RB. So he might not be yelling at Thomson as much as replacing him short term.

    Although there was also some suggestion he’s good in the air, which screams CB.
    I think he'd come to play CB. He doesnt profile as a RB, and he's played the position a handful of times in his career and not for years. Not sure I'd want to see him try at 33. Then again, I know I don't want to see Kosi try anymore. And I'm not sure we can trust management to know exactly what it is they'd be getting anyway.

  13. #4543
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    The club needs so many signings to compete next year that I can’t help but feel we’re going to be “rebuilding” into next summer.

    There’s only 1 starter on the backline, keeping is a mess, zero midfield depth of any kind, no legit depth on the wings.

    A keeper, 4 defenders, 2 midfielders, a winger. And all of them need to be either good or decently competent.

    That’s assuming no one leaves (I.e. Oso, Ayo) and they drop the dead weight contracts that *everyone* knows are dead weight (I.e. Bono, Mavinga).

    I may be in the minority, but my confidence is not extremely high for them signing players (regardless of quality) or retaining/releasing the right talent.

    If they do things correctly (because at this point the correct decisions are so obvious everyone on this board points them out), then next year should look like the below:

    Insigne-Jimenez-Berna

    Oso-STARTER-Kaye

    Criscito-STARTER-STARTER-STARTER

    STARTER

    Subs: Westberg; FULLBACK, O’Neil; Bradley, MID; WINGER, Akinola

  14. #4544
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    The club needs so many signings to compete next year that I can’t help but feel we’re going to be “rebuilding” into next summer.

    There’s only 1 starter on the backline, keeping is a mess, zero midfield depth of any kind, no legit depth on the wings.

    A keeper, 4 defenders, 2 midfielders, a winger. And all of them need to be either good or decently competent.

    That’s assuming no one leaves (I.e. Oso, Ayo) and they drop the dead weight contracts that *everyone* knows are dead weight (I.e. Bono, Mavinga).

    I may be in the minority, but my confidence is not extremely high for them signing players (regardless of quality) or retaining/releasing the right talent.

    If they do things correctly (because at this point the correct decisions are so obvious everyone on this board points them out), then next year should look like the below:

    Insigne-Jimenez-Berna

    Oso-STARTER-Kaye

    Criscito-STARTER-STARTER-STARTER

    STARTER

    Subs: Westberg; FULLBACK, O’Neil; Bradley, MID; WINGER, Akinola
    disagree, i reckon we'll pretty much have a solid group of 15 by the start of next year, especially when you consider the 3rd DP spot.

    next summer will be about adding depth pieces.

  15. #4545
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Maybe our biggest impediment is that the best academies in Toronto pre-existed TFC and we’re already graduating players to the PROs. When TFC came in and treated them arrogantly (as FC Edmonton did with Minor soccer, forever screwing up that relationship) they went their own way, and they have the rep for development. We don’t. So we’re not even getting the best recruits.
    This is very obviously a big part of the problem. You see the sheer number of GTA kids in the CMNT setup. Ayo, Priso, Thompson, Kerr, Nelson, are just a tiny fraction, maybe 10% of all GTA players in that system, and all except maybe Priso are far from the top of the “GTA pool” in the CMNT pecking order.

    I don’t know the definition of the problem though. The Mitrovic and Corbeanu stories (and Belal Halbouni, and MAK of course) make me think that scouting/talent identification once we get a look at them, is just as big a problem.
    Last edited by ensco; 08-04-2022 at 01:04 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  16. #4546
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    I rate McNaughton over O'Neill in terms of ability to adapt to game states. O'Neill, to me, is a good #4.

  17. #4547
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    The club needs so many signings to compete next year that I can’t help but feel we’re going to be “rebuilding” into next summer.
    I agree, I posted basically the same opinion about 1 week - 10 days ago somewhere... That TFC will be a strong fav to win MLS cup just after next year's summer transfer window, if everything is going OK.

  18. #4548
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    Could we be the team that’s in for Tyler Pasher? I know it’s not the most pressing need, but a more proven and inexpensive backup on the right side of the forward line makes some sense.

  19. #4549
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Could we be the team that’s in for Tyler Pasher? I know it’s not the most pressing need, but a more proven and inexpensive backup on the right side of the forward line makes some sense.
    Rumors seem to have him going to SKC.

  20. #4550
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    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 08-04-2022 at 09:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    The inside story here is, he wanted to leave because of salary. They told him he was basically worth the MLS minimum, that was it.
    My bad - I’m mixing up Vancouver and Montreal

  22. #4552
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    This is very obviously a big part of the problem. You see the sheer number of GTA kids in the CMNT setup. Ayo, Priso, Thompson, Kerr, Nelson, are just a tiny fraction, maybe 10% of all GTA players in that system, and all except maybe Priso are far from the top of the “GTA pool” in the CMNT pecking order.

    I don’t know the definition of the problem though. The Mitrovic and Corbeanu stories (and Belal Halbouni, and MAK of course) make me think that scouting/talent identification once we get a look at them, is just as big a problem.

    Easy way to solve part of this problem, maybe other as well...

    'Business Is Business', 'Make A Deal'...
    https://youtu.be/QFRczUhjhU4

    That is... 'Hire Or Buy' what is required; 'The Apparachik'.
    Just... 'Do The Lorenziello' and 'Drop The Bags Of Brinks'.
    Get Sigma Sports or like or likes.
    Even if TFC/MLSE is a silent or minority partner; as long as they have a 'Right Of First Refusal' on all players.
    Let those 'better experienced' run any academies and feeder organizations.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 08-04-2022 at 09:39 AM.

  23. #4553
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    If they dont do something on a back up / seasoned midfielder and quality RB, this will speak volumes. They are writing off the season....imho

    The lack of vision and depth in losing the CCL final was so brutal, to the fans.... I truly hope they have not written off the remainder of the season, even though it is a huge longshot.

    EDIT - I can understand if they are, then just say it... we are going to take a run with what we have and not rush the re-build. And say the word re-build!!
    Last edited by Bushmancan; 08-04-2022 at 09:53 AM.

  24. #4554
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    Mertens to where?

    Not a bad goodbye, eh?

    Class!

    I hope to not see one by Oso.


  25. #4555
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    Would be fun to have him, but only as a rental as they say in other sports.

  26. #4556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    Would be fun to have him, but only as a rental as they say in other sports.
    agreed - if it's on TAM, then a bit more than a rental but a DP Mertens isn't worth it.

  27. #4557
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    Would be happy to have Mertens for the rest of the season, but we probably aren't the right fit for him. He probably wants to be at a team that can get him fit for the World Cup. Our regular season ends at the beginning of October and with playoffs in doubt that's almost a month and a half off for him before the World Cup starts.

  28. #4558
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    https://twitter.com/Beezersun

    #TFCLive closing in on a deal to bring Richie Laryea back on loan from Nottingham Forest #MLS

  29. #4559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil744 View Post
    https://twitter.com/Beezersun

    #TFCLive closing in on a deal to bring Richie Laryea back on loan from Nottingham Forest #MLS
    WTF!?

    Of course.

    Unicorns Are Horses!
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 08-04-2022 at 10:20 AM.

  30. #4560
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    Richie!!!

 

 

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